News: BOTM 252: Roosevelt, Noble - Starts May 2, 2023

[AlanH]

Sorry we can’t give you an extended submission date, as I believe you have a fixed deadline of your own.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Sorry we can’t give you an extended submission date, as I believe you have a fixed deadline of your own.

Not a problem, I managed to get the save and started to play immediately, I do not think I will have a problem with finishing before the deadline. Thank you again for doing Mac saves

 

[Dhoomstriker]

It's a Ring type of map. Yet, we are also on an island, which is likely somewhere in the middle of the map.

Are those truly also islands to the north of the Cornucopia sign? Or, could that Tundra represent the mainland?

Ohhh, interesting. The smaller image found in the thread makes it look like the two islands are connected to each other. Yet, if we click to view the larger image, we do not get the same impression, with the two islands being distinct smaller images within the bigger image.

Can we trust the smaller image's depiction of the the Gems Resource being 1NW + 4W of our Settler's initial position?

I think that I would tend to trust it, as otherwise, what's the point of settling to get 1 Clam Resource plus 1 Plains square when we could at least minimally otherwise settle a bit south-east to earn additional Plains squares.

Also, we should also talk about settling Corucopia. If we settle only a single City, say, 2W of the Wheat, note that we won't automatically get access to the Gems and Wheat Resources within our empire, unless those two Resource-laden islands are connected to each other in the south, since each island must have its own City or Fort to be able to export the island's Resources.

We might also want to consider whether we would make Colonies in this game. For example, if we move our Palace, we could turn our original island into a Colony, which might not be a bad play if the rest of our original island turns out to be quite barren.

Sitting Bull and Toku for early defensive Units with strong Promotions.

Isabella to spread Christianity (errr, Buddhism) throughout the world, with a strong curse upon all of the heathens.

Elizabeth to blow away in tech and trade liberally, without ever offering up her World Map no matter how nicely you butter her up.

Ragnar, probably far away, to give us naval pain if he advances enough to unlock Berserkers.

Noble -> Deity; lots of laughter.

On Noble, it could make sense to settle in-place and beeline Monotheism, in an attempt to expand the Cultural Borders that much quicker. Expect Isabella to get Buddhism, and one of Ragnar or Elizabeth to get Hinduism, although on Noble, we might still be the first to Hinduism.

While buiding our first Work Boat, after our first Cultural Border expansion, is it better to work the Clam or to work the Plains square? Probably the Clam, since we'll have already earned 10 Food from working it for the first 10 turns, and we can then work the Plains square at City Size 2.

Being on an island, it's not like we'd declare war for an early Worker theft, but if we were to go to war, there'd be reasonably high odds of losing our Galley. Poor Ragnar forgot to build a Trading Post (for the +1 Naval Movement Promotion) before building his first Galley.

With no Pasture Resources visible, could we be tricked into avoiding Animal Husbandry, only to later reveal a Horse Resource on the Plains within our initial Settler's location's big, fat cross?

Does the line "Their weapons have been confiscated, but in exchange they have been given a boat" mean that the AIs will not start with an initial Warrior or Scout?

P.S. Who is "Elder Sibling," and what might he or she do to us in the game?

 

[MarleysGh0st]

1. Can we trust the smaller image's depiction of the the Gems Resource being 1NW + 4W of our Settler's initial position?

2. Does the line "Their weapons have been confiscated, but in exchange they have been given a boat" mean that the AIs will not start with an initial Warrior or Scout?

3. P.S. Who is "Elder Sibling," and what might he or she do to us in the game?

1. It's a challenge trying to represent two separate starting positions in the small and large images for the game announcement. I did not mean to imply any specific distance of separation in those images. As I said in the opening text, the military escorts (now with galleys instead of clubs) have all been relocated far away.

Did I say you're starting on an island?

2. Yes. All civilizations start with one settler and one galley. All of the galleys are starting in the same square, north of Cornucopia. Some distance from the galleys, all the of the settlers have equally bad starting positions.

3. I'm a fan of "Strange Planet" by Nathan W. Pyle, whose humor comes from using unusual words for his characters to have normal conversations. Think of other words for "Elder Sibling" and you might arrive at a name for a literary civilization leader. This is also the name for another reality television show, at least in the USA. But Elder Sibling isn't the same as the civilization leader in the movie this game is based on, so this doesn't really have any deep meaning for figuring out this game. I was trying to get creative in my announcement writing, but didn't have the time to elaborate any more on it.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Did I say you're starting on an island?

Perhaps not. But, Powerfaker does seem to imply that this part of the game may have been adjusted, or perhaps we were never on an island, but the Game Description was edited because there was some related confusion in the original wording?

I also do not think that you explicitly said that we are NOT starting on an island, either.

OK, let's say that we're not on an island. Then, we can move to find a better location, leaving the task of settling a City to reach Cornucopia for another time. That situation gives us 5 turns before Deity Barb Animals will spawn.

Anyway, if we ARE on a tiny Desert Island, I'll take the risk of exploring to find that fact out, as we would find it out pretty quickly, and it might make sense to settle the capital on the east side of such an island.

If we are NOT on a small island (such that Barb Animals can spawn within range of eating our Settler), and say, the Galley can reach us, and it takes more than 5 turns for the Galley to reach us, it seems too great of a risk on Deity to wait for the Galley to show up before settling a City.

1. It's a challenge trying to represent two separate starting positions in the small and large images for the game announcement. I did not mean to imply any specific distance of separation in those images.

Great; thank you for clarifying that the images are not to be fully trusted! However, I am even more confused than ever as to whether settling in-place will allow a City settled where our Settler starts to reach Cornucopia after 2 Cultural Border expansions.

I suppose that we'll know as soon as we open the saved game, assuming that you used Reveal Tile Mode to show us in the actual game, and thus it seems like would not be a real spoiler for you to tell us explicitly, now, so that we can discuss the answer.

As I said in the opening text, the military escorts (now with galleys instead of clubs) have all been relocated far away.
All civilizations start with one settler and one galley. All of the galleys are starting in the same square, north of Cornucopia.

It appears that setting a Difficulty Level of Deity is a suitable Challenge, since the AIs are supposed to have terrible starting locations, making the Challenger saved game play a lot closer to an Emperor Difficulty Level game.

Yet, if the AIs do not have any Units by their Settlers and Barbs are not disabled, then taking the Challenger saved game might even mean an AI being eliminated by Deity Barbs!

Think of other words for "Elder Sibling" and you might arrive at a name for a literary civilization leader. This is also the name for another reality television show, at least in the USA.

Okay, if we are talking about the Leaders in this game, sibling might imply tribe, while elder might imply the original owner of said land.

I was trying to get creative in my announcement writing, but didn't have the time to elaborate any more on it.

We understand that you were in a rush to get things going; thanks for throwing it together so quickly!

As for our Leader, we have a lot of half-priced Buildings and thus it will be quite tempting to play the game in Builder Mode.

My goal is to be the first get the crabs.

Since we are supposed to have a competition according to the game announcement, this idea sounds as good as any to use as our side competition, assuming that there is a Crab Resource on the map. Remember the Turn that you first using a Fishing Net on a Crab Resource (or the date that your Cultural Borders expand over top of a captured, pre-netted Crab Resource).

EDIT: Let's assume that receiving a Crab Resource in trade will NOT count.

Then the question is, move south first to see if the boat needs to go north or vice versa ..... (NE first)?

For an economy of movement, I would probably send the boat SE, E, then further south-eastward along the Gems island, depending upon what terrain gets revealed.

If we instead go NE first, which might be connected to the mainland, and if we are NOT planning to settle Cornucopia as our first City, then we'll likely end up wanting to immediately come back south to explore the Cornucopia area, which would mean doubling-back in terms of exploration Turns.


Of course, instead try NE (or NW, as per the actual game, since we apparently cannot trust the relative positioning of the two sections of the screenshots) if you're trying to settle Cornucopia as your first City.

As an extra challenge, it looks to me like it's also impossible to fogbust all Cornucopia land tiles from a boat, which means that if you transport the settler, there's a nonzero risk of him getting eaten or clubbed to death the instant he steps off the boat.

The AIs' Galleys also act as fog-busters, as long as they stay nearby.

It could even be worth the turn to Skip the Galley's first turn with Show Friendly Moves enabled in the game's Options (Ctrl + o), just to see which ways the AI Galleys go.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Perhaps not. But, Powerfaker does seem to imply that this part of the game may have been adjusted, or perhaps we were never on an island, but the Game Description was edited because there was some related confusion in the original wording?

I also do not think that you explicitly said that we are NOT starting on an island, either.

OK, let's say that we're not on an island. Then, we can move to find a better location, leaving the task of settling a City to reach Cornucopia for another time. That situation gives us 5 turns before Deity Barb Animals will spawn.

Anyway, if we ARE on a tiny Desert Island, I'll take the risk of exploring to find that fact out, as we would find it out pretty quickly, and it might make sense to settle the capital on the east side of such an island.

If we are NOT on a small island (such that Barb Animals can spawn within range of eating our Settler), and say, the Galley can reach us, and it takes more than 5 turns for the Galley to reach us, it seems too great of a risk on Deity to wait for the Galley to show up before settling a City.


Great; thank you for clarifying that the images are not to be fully trusted! However, I am even more confused than ever as to whether settling in-place will allow a City settled where our Settler starts to reach Cornucopia after 2 Cultural Border expansions.

I suppose that we'll know as soon as we open the saved game, assuming that you used Reveal Tile Mode to show us in the actual game, and thus it seems like would not be a real spoiler for you to tell us explicitly, now, so that we can discuss the answer.


It appears that setting a Difficulty Level of Deity is a suitable Challenge, since the AIs are supposed to have terrible starting locations, making the Challenger saved game play a lot closer to an Emperor Difficulty Level game.

Yet, if the AIs do not have any Units by their Settlers and Barbs are not disabled, then taking the Challenger saved game might even mean an AI being eliminated by Deity Barbs!


Okay, if we are talking about the Leaders in this game, sibling might imply tribe, while elder might imply the original owner of said land.


We understand that you were in a rush to get things going; thanks for throwing it together so quickly!

As for our Leader, we have a lot of half-priced Buildings and thus it will be quite tempting to play the game in Builder Mode.


Since we are supposed to have a competition according to the game announcement, this idea sounds as good as any to use as our side competition, assuming that there is a Crab Resource on the map. Remember the Turn that you first using a Fishing Net on a Crab Resource (or the date that your Cultural Borders expand over top of a captured, pre-netted Crab Resource).

EDIT: Let's assume that receiving a Crab Resource in trade will NOT count.


For an economy of movement, I would probably send the boat SE, E, then further south-eastward along the Gems island, depending upon what terrain gets revealed.

If we instead go NE first, which might be connected to the mainland, and if we are NOT planning to settle Cornucopia as our first City, then we'll likely end up wanting to immediately come back south to explore the Cornucopia area, which would mean doubling-back in terms of exploration Turns.


Of course, instead try NE (or NW, as per the actual game, since we apparently cannot trust the relative positioning of the two sections of the screenshots) if you're trying to settle Cornucopia as your first City.


The AIs' Galleys also act as fog-busters, as long as they stay nearby.

It could even be worth the turn to Skip the Galley's first turn with Show Friendly Moves enabled in the game's Options (Ctrl + o), just to see which ways the AI Galleys go.

Oh, I had no idea it was a thing, "show friendly moves", cool .

 

[MarleysGh0st]

I'm going to be traveling, so kcd_swede will be publishing the results of this game. If anyone needs to report a problem with their game, please copy kcd_swede on your message.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I'm going to be traveling, so kcd_swede will be publishing the results of this game. If anyone needs to report a problem with their game, please copy kcd_swede on your message.

Good to know, thanks for heads up. Any news on BOTM 251?

 

[kcd_swede]

Hi, I played this game and submitted without any prior knowledge. I did submit yesterday. I am curious how the community feels if I am called to process and publish the results. Should I disqualify myself from any shields (or in freak instance any fastest finish awards) if I am needed to publish the results (which I kinda promised to do as a support guy)? If anyone thinks I should DQ myself, let me know. I don't know now if there is any contest for my VC submission, but I suck so if there is and anyone suspects fouls play, then I will definitely exclude my submission from the results.

IDK about BOTM251, and Humbaba is almost chewed through his chains. I think we need a BOTM253 also... but I am only human, and my prayers to Odin are so far falling on deaf ears.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Hi, I played this game and submitted without any prior knowledge. I did submit yesterday. I am curious how the community feels if I am called to process and publish the results....

IDK about BOTM251, and Humbaba is almost chewed through his chains. I think we need a BOTM253 also... but I am only human, and my prayers to Odin are so far falling on deaf ears.

If you win any awards you will be required to share them with me. Other than that, I have no objections/qualifications, and I doubt anyone else does either.

Yeah, you and Humbaba aren't the only ones hungry for a new BOTM. MG was traveling and Noble Zarkon seems to be out of contact (hopefully all is well with him). I wonder if someone could just whip up an Immortal(?) game and release the hounds without any testing or warranty? That hypothetical kind soul should surely then be allowed to participate, as well.

 

[Frederiksberg]

I agree with @Xcalibrator. A game would be much appreciated and a standard map generator game is fine now and then to keep the regular flow.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Hi, I played this game and submitted without any prior knowledge. I did submit yesterday. I am curious how the community feels if I am called to process and publish the results. Should I disqualify myself from any shields (or in freak instance any fastest finish awards) if I am needed to publish the results (which I kinda promised to do as a support guy)? If anyone thinks I should DQ myself, let me know. I don't know now if there is any contest for my VC submission, but I suck so if there is and anyone suspects fouls play, then I will definitely exclude my submission from the results.

IDK about BOTM251, and Humbaba is almost chewed through his chains. I think we need a BOTM253 also... but I am only human, and my prayers to Odin are so far falling on deaf ears.

I trust you. We trust you. Enjoy!

 

[LowtherCastle]

If you win any awards you will be required to share them with me. Other than that, I have no objections/qualifications, and I doubt anyone else does either.

Yeah, you and Humbaba aren't the only ones hungry for a new BOTM. MG was traveling and Noble Zarkon seems to be out of contact (hopefully all is well with him). I wonder if someone could just whip up an Immortal(?) game and release the hounds without any testing or warranty? That hypothetical kind soul should surely then be allowed to participate, as well.

That’s an excellent idea considering our dwindling numbers. If a mapmaker isn’t inclined, for whatever reason, to custom-make a botm, or if he simply wants to play it, just let Sid make the game.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Great to hear some life on this forum. No problem with @kcd_swede processing the results, but please wait to the deadline, my game is stuck on a dying old comp.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I also wonder about replaying some old GOTMs with some minimal modifications - maybe to play as AI? Or add some perks to a difficult games?

We had a couple of very successful examples of it, like Always War Rome game (~194), etc. That should require minimal effort on the GOTM staff part, mostly doing some modifications and disabling old game threads .

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I agree with @Xcalibrator. A game would be much appreciated and a standard map generator game is fine now and then to keep the regular flow.

Your (and everyone's) trust in @kcd_swede is exemplary (and I'm sure very well deserved). But on @kcd_swede's own request, in order to avoid even the slightest look of impropriety, I've agreed that I'll (probably) be the person releasing the results. Since I NEVER have time to play any games these days (Or should that be )

We'll be looking at getting a new game soon too...

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Should be Hope it will change soon.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Your (and everyone's) trust in @kcd_swede is exemplary (and I'm sure very well deserved). But on @kcd_swede's own request, in order to avoid even the slightest look of impropriety, I've agreed that I'll (probably) be the person releasing the results. Since I NEVER have time to play any games these days (Or should that be )

We'll be looking at getting a new game soon too...

Surely you can at least download and start the games. For me one of the most enjoyable parts about.CIV has always been the initial exploration and discovery of what’s around. The initial 30 to 50 turns take virtually no time at all. After that, I know what you mean, life intervenes.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Surely you can at least download and start the games. For me one of the most enjoyable parts about.CIV has always been the initial exploration and discovery of what’s around. The initial 30 to 50 turns take virtually no time at all. After that, I know what you mean, life intervenes.

Exactly. The initial exploration, learning about this new world, it is the best part of every game. And turns are easy in the beginning, not too many units to manage.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Surely you can at least download and start the games. For me one of the most enjoyable parts about.CIV has always been the initial exploration and discovery of what’s around. The initial 30 to 50 turns take virtually no time at all. After that, I know what you mean, life intervenes.

Yes you're right - the first part of the game is much quicker, and definitely the most enjoyable. Once you get to 1000AD, then I usually find I'm engaged in or gearing up for wars with lots of units, which is fun and challenging but really takes ages - as much as 10 minutes just to do one turn. Once I'm at 1500AD, that's when the game starts to get tedious, and it begins to feel like an endless round of, optimising which tiles the workers should improve next, and continuously deciding what to build next in cities that turn out a new building every 2-3 turns. I guess, even though the first turns are fun, at some point I got demotivated from starting games that I knew there was no possibility of finishing. But you're right - maybe I should play a few sometimes just to experience the BC years and then retire

(Of course, if I did that for this game, then I'd be the one risking a conflict of interest if I also have to publish the results haha)