P666-02 Fix Another Trash Game
- Thread starter Cam_H
- Start date
Calavente said:sad to be again the
maybe if you had voted, the outcome would be different
The only bad thing about your game is 1 city with a total of 2 pop. Compared to every other game, your's was the lowest on this particular issue. Even mine was better for this
If you're not used to monarch, beware of barbs!
Wow. I got beaten to Stonehenge by 1 turn, and hadn't even started on Oracle before it went. Wiped some Jaguars to fend off the barbs and settled another 2 cities. Monarch is different.
Haven't planted 1 cottage as I have been keeping the workers alive and the iron connected. Teching to metal casting to trade it. Have got Monarchy to try to build big cities in the early game and make use of the gold,gems,floodplains.
But it looks weak with no barracks or graneries.Open borders all round and good trade routes so far.
Haven't planted 1 cottage as I have been keeping the workers alive and the iron connected. Teching to metal casting to trade it. Have got Monarchy to try to build big cities in the early game and make use of the gold,gems,floodplains.
But it looks weak with no barracks or graneries.Open borders all round and good trade routes so far.
Calavente,
Well the is not something that you want to be especially, but I wouldn't be too despondent about it this time. Sometimes it just boils down to who's strategy the other team members respond to, and who had luck on their side.
My guess is that you went Worker > Warrior > Settler, and consequently your capital didn't find the population growth to put yourself in a strong position at 2400BC, however I think that you haven't set it up too badly for the current round.
Thanks everyone for posting your games. I look forward to checking them out later in the week.
Having read the initial 'blurbs', it seems again that we've headed in a few different directions.
Well the
is not something that you want to be especially, but I wouldn't be too despondent about it this time. Sometimes it just boils down to who's strategy the other team members respond to, and who had luck on their side.My guess is that you went Worker > Warrior > Settler, and consequently your capital didn't find the population growth to put yourself in a strong position at 2400BC, however I think that you haven't set it up too badly for the current round.
Thanks everyone for posting your games. I look forward to checking them out later in the week.
Having read the initial 'blurbs', it seems again that we've headed in a few different directions.armstrong
Prince
Cam_H said:Calavente,
Well the
Well, there's also the luck factor. I know I popped almost all of AH from my first hut, which sped everything up techwise. Some folks got two techs; Calavente got none.
Cam_H said:
I don't think Worker > Warrior > Settler was that bad of a move. Rather, I think the main thing that slowed Calavente down was the research path: Mining > Agri > BW before Animal Husbandry. Don't neglect those 5F1P porkers.
armstrong said:I don't think Worker > Warrior > Settler was that bad of a move. Rather, I think the main thing that slowed Calavente down was the research path: Mining > Agri > BW before Animal Husbandry. Don't neglect those 5F1P porkers.
you're wrong there.
With flood plains everywhere and 2 oasis, you didn't really need the pigs to grow. I don't want to brag too much with my miserable game, but i did research those techs too and had enough pop to whip a settler.
pigswill
fly (one day)
While you have enough food to grow with oases and floodplains the big advantage of pigs is that you can work a goldmine and still have excess food.
Having said that it did not occur to me to go AH first, if I hadn't popped it from a hut I'd have gone mining, BW before thinking about AH.
Having said that it did not occur to me to go AH first, if I hadn't popped it from a hut I'd have gone mining, BW before thinking about AH.
armstrong
Prince
cabert said:
I still disagree.
After you count the 2F to work a tile, an Oasis gives you 1F2C. Pigs give you 3F1P. That's a huge difference - the Oasis gets 2C more a turn in exchange for 3 F/P from the pigs - in the time working the Oasis would net you 80 beakers for a basic tech, the pigs will have gotten you an extra settler and warrior.If you look at my game you'll see I can whip my second settler in 2 turns. And it didn't slow my research down very much - I still managed to bag IW.
As a general strategy, I found it's almost always best to research (if you don't have one yet) a food resource technology first. Even with our gold here, we want to grow to size 2 quickly before building our settler, so we're going to be better off getting a food resource up asap to minimize the amount of time we have to spend not working the gold mine.
pigswill said:
Right. And if you have two gold mines, you can work both of them at size 3. I only took one because I wanted long-term production, but it seems if you settled in place AH first would definitely be the optimal choice.
Calavente,
I can't download and look at the game right now, but it doesn't look too bad to me!
Armstrong and Cabert,
It would be interesting to do some numbers on this one. I'm in agreement with Cabert in that the Oasis and Floodplains make population growth pretty easy in this instance, but the opportunity cost of going Agriculture > Animal Hubandry seemed a lot when there were religions to grab! I'd be glad to be corrected however ... this is a learning exercise after all!
I can't download and look at the game right now, but it doesn't look too bad to me!
Spoiler :
points to Great Engineer, and (3.) it's a prerequisite technology for both Construction and Currency, which are each very worthwhile technologies.Armstrong and Cabert,
It would be interesting to do some numbers on this one. I'm in agreement with Cabert in that the Oasis and Floodplains make population growth pretty easy in this instance, but the opportunity cost of going Agriculture > Animal Hubandry seemed a lot when there were religions to grab!
I'd be glad to be corrected however ... this is a learning exercise after all!Cam_H said:Spoiler :
cam_h, why the spoiler tag?
Math is also prereq for music.
There is pro and con for going towards maths:
pro :
- chop bonus
- prereq for very handy techs, including my personnal favourite, construction
con:
- the AIs go for it every single time = tradeable
- not cheap
Armstrong and Cabert,
It would be interesting to do some numbers on this one. I'm in agreement with Cabert in that the Oasis and Floodplains make population growth pretty easy in this instance, but the opportunity cost of going Agriculture > Animal Hubandry seemed a lot when there were religions to grab!
you stated it, it's not about number crunching, it's about different goals.
If you go for a religion early, those oasises (2!) are the best possible thing : no tech required, good commerce and food. YOu grow fast enough and get your religion. If you don't need the techs RIGHT NOW but like to get it faster later, the AH is clearly ahead. You will want this very high food asap+showing horses can do only good.
As afterthought of round 1, I really think I should have gone agri>AH while building a worker, then mining>BW while building a warrior or 2. Pigs + gold =
. Then it would be time for wheel and pottery (all those FPs!), while building/rushing a settler. We really should have focused on military (=pop and tech at this stage) rather than religion; since you can conquer a holy city with troops, but cannot kill troops with a holy city 
.IMHO, pigswill did the best start in this direction (however no wheel = no metal and no chariots = no troops)
When I arrived at math I hesitated :
-go for currency toward CoL ?
-go to priesthood toward CoL?
-go to music for the GA ? (very early Ga seems kinda cool!! but 17turns...)
(edited : music instead of drama)
you know, I went to math to go CoL and go cata... then noticed that it was 2 tech cheaper (+ many beakers) going through prisethood ...
I've an other issue : with jag and no copper, I'm kinda reluctant to go to war early.
-go for currency toward CoL ?
-go to priesthood toward CoL?
-go to music for the GA ? (very early Ga seems kinda cool!! but 17turns...)
(edited : music instead of drama)
you know, I went to math to go CoL and go cata... then noticed that it was 2 tech cheaper (+ many beakers) going through prisethood ...
I've an other issue : with jag and no copper, I'm kinda reluctant to go to war early.
Spoiler EDIT but not really sure that it is a spoiler :
Calavente said:
It's music that gives the free artist. And it's not a cheap tech, but it's quite helpful IMHO, though for a space race it's not necessarily needed...
It's highly tradeable if the sistin chapel isn't built yet.
you know, I went to math to go CoL and go cata... then noticed that it was 2 tech cheaper (+ many beakers) going through prisethood ...
you need maths for construction. priesthood won't give you anything towards catapults!
Spoiler :
pigswill
fly (one day)
Jaguars ain't as powerful as swords obviously but cheaper and easier to build; don't need to hook any metals just go ahead and build them. We get cheap barracks and free combat 1 which helps as well; this was my rationale in going for theology slingshot rather than traditional CoL/CS route. Theocracy and barracks gives combat 1/CR2 jaguar straight from the barracks and that's a pretty reasonable unit.
Cabert: this is why you don't actually need wheel and roads and mines and all that tedious infrastructure to build an army.
There was a Monte based SG fairly recently that basically demonstrated the power of the jaguar.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175856
Cabert: this is why you don't actually need wheel and roads and mines and all that tedious infrastructure to build an army.
There was a Monte based SG fairly recently that basically demonstrated the power of the jaguar.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175856
pigswill
fly (one day)
cabert said:
Partly agree. Jaguars are like cats (unintentional pun); good city raiders but need protection; stack of jags with medic spear and shock axe is the way to play them. What it means is you can capture a city and whip a jag or two to replace losses.
armstrong
Prince
Cam_H said:Armstrong and Cabert,
It would be interesting to do some numbers on this one. I'm in agreement with Cabert in that the Oasis and Floodplains make population growth pretty easy in this instance, but the opportunity cost of going Agriculture > Animal Hubandry seemed a lot when there were religions to grab!
There's no need to grab Agriculture.
You can get AH through Hunting before your first worker is built. I'm absolutely positive that working a 5F1P tile is stronger in nearly all circumstances than a 3F2C tile - it increases the productivity of that tile by 300%!I'm not to sold on grabbings lots of religions for Space Races, especially if you're a spiritual civ. You want to minimize your hammers, and since you're spiritual you want to spend as much time in Representation instead of Universal Suffrage as possible, so you don't have much excess capacity for building missionaries. I know when I go for fast spaceship wins with spiritual civs I've never spread more than 1-2 religions, and they tend to be my fastest.
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