PIE's Ancient Mediterranean on Deity

[Manco Capac]

Spoiler :

Gotta hate those bears.



Hmmm, nothing better to help a runaway to run away more.



Poor barbs rely on deers to defend themselves. Pathetic things.



Good thing with any captured city. Gold, slaves and tech bonuses.



Shortsword allows shortswordmen. Capt'n obvious on report.



Me? No way! Crouton, get lost.



Again, those meteoritic wastelands. Also, my chariot is almost stuck by bears.



We're fourth in techs!



Tribal hut <3



No love for the result though.



Boadicae getting stronk!



Sea people?



Explorations in the far south. Huts.



Merchantmen are good to convince tribes to give their gold.



Cheap Hatshe is cheap.



Needs poleaxe to get IW.



In celtia, it is a high compliment to steal their women. Those idiots don't understand our traditions.



New barb city over the older one I razed. And a rare resource: Cyperus thingy allowing Papyrus.



Woah! Big storms.



We're second in strength. Let's war now.



Oops. I attacked too late. Before, there were few shortbowmen. Now, there are a legion of them. That's gonna be a terrible fight.



Noooooo!



At least, I hoped my suicide worth it.

Rage....



We want that big horsies for our Epona venerations....



The said bug where I captured the Trojan Horse and at the same time, it made a mitosis of it.





At this very moment, war went downhill until Lymond salvaged it.

 

[Manco Capac]

I made several edits in the two first post. To embellish the succession game.

 

[Manco Capac]

 

[cool.sound]

what's up???

warning patch 7 looks like colonization civic downgraded to -30% distance maint.

 

[Manco Capac]

I think the roster deserted. The potential players and the active one.

 

[lymond]

No desertion here I'll get on the case this evening

 

[Doshin]

I'd still like to play, but a combination of factors are conspiring against this (inexperience with the mod; unwillingness to upend a game in progress with my n00bishness; lack of time to play one or two practice games... etc.).

Unless you're fine with my playing the game pretty much blind and potentially screwing everything up (not an exaggeration), I'll lurk/advise/heckle instead.

P.S. Tachy: are your historical write-ups meant to be anecdotal, critical, informative, a space to practice English...? The Croesus/Solon story is fun and entertaining, but tells us infinitely more about fifth century Greek attitudes/historiography than it does Lydia. So if you want to provide a famous, enjoyable story, then good job. But if you want to offer a more balanced and informative account, read around the subject a little more.

Spoiler :

I hope that didn't sound patronizing or insulting.

 

[lymond]

You are more than welcome to join us, Doshin. We aren't exactly experts at this mod

 

[Manco Capac]

^
I have intention to add more. I was busy yesterday on working on a potential new PAE civ (Ethiopia in the time of Axum Kingdom). One thing I like in narrating their stories is showing the relationships between nations. Like Croesus has close relationship with the Greek League (Oracle of Delphi, Solon) and his doom arrived along the rise of Persiar(Cyrus the first).

A point to add (erratum) : Cyrus was in fact touched by the fact Croesus was betrayed by his own gods (premonition of the oracle because in fact the true assertion was: A great empire will fall and Croesus thought that would be the persian one).

---------------------------

If I give you a mostly complete amount of information in a post, will you play then?
I understand your attitude in the work for a mod you may never play anhymore. That's why I'll masticate the information beforehand.

 

[lymond]

Interestingly I looked up some info on Lydia a few days ago. I knew that must have been based in Turkey due to the city names, but new little about them, even though I've been into Ancient History since a young lad. (I'd heard of them but just not much info) Looks like the rose and fell rather quickly and quite some time ago.

 

[Doshin]

I'll pick up after lymond, then. Don't say I didn't warn you.

@Tachy

Spoiler :

What evidence exists for a meeting between Solon and Croesus? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the story is first attested in Herodotus, who was active some two hundred years later than the pair. By this stage, Solon and Croesus had passed from the realm of history into that of myth (we are still dealing with an almost exclusively oral society by this point...). The former had become the archetypal wise, Athenian, philosopher-politician; the latter the exotic, incredibly rich, yet foolish Oriental king.

Their meeting dramatizes, in nuce, the clash of Hellenic and Oriental civilizations, from a Greek (culturally Athenian) perspective, by an author writing after the events of the Persian War. The story accordingly maps onto numerous themes we find elsewhere in Greek literature and thought, e.g.

• The Gods resent humans who grow arrogant in their good fortune (~Niobe)
• Man cannot escape his fate, try as he might (~Gyges' ring)
• Delphic oracles are polyvalent, but often prove true in tragic or ironic ways (~the death of Aeschylus)
• A mistake made in ignorance, 'hamartia', leads to a tragic and total reversal of fortune, 'peripateia'. (~Oedipus)
• Greeks are wise. Eastern 'barbarians' are rich, soft, and silly. (~Persia/Egypt/Parthia)
• 'What would happen if X had met Y...?' becomes 'X probably did meet Y' (~contest of Hesiod and Homer)

Herodotus, a brilliant man and writer, was the father of history, and so lacked the resources, intellectual framework, and models that historians possess today. His history, like all ancient history, was much more literary (or better, rhetorical) than our own. To simplify somewhat: where accurate knowledge was lacking, it was entirely acceptable to invent narratives or speechs that were 'the sort of thing' that would have been said or done by 'this sort of man' at the time. A battlefield scribe in the 19th century would record a speech of Napoleon and this script could be utilized by later historians. But someone like Herodotus could only conjecture as to what may or may not have happened before, during, or after a battle, and what may or may not have been said.

tl dr? If there is a nice coincidence, link-up, or story from that period of history, treat it with caution.

 

[Manco Capac]

@Doshin

You are entirely right to think what I brought up can be falsehood. It is indeed not a historical assertion. Historians tend to think Croesus was left to be burnt and the nice smooth talking between Cyrus and Croesus never happened. Not to mention Croesus never became an advisor thanks to Cyrus's mercy.

Historians just like astronomers and mathematicians did not have the methodical frame from which all studies should be inspired of. Like the scientific method allows rigorous study of a phenomenon and often Greeks solely relied on the power of reason, which obviously can occasionally lead to a falsehood.

I don't know extensively the history of Herodotus' works, but he has made several doubtful affirmations without any real contemporaneous evidence, from another individual or even archeological. Like the Macrobian people supposed to live 120 years and located below Nubia...

Indeed, I think Croesus' story is like a fairy tale with possibly a moral.

 

[lymond]

It's called Historical Method

 

[lymond]

Hey Tachy, give some pointers on what you think we should do next and stop yappin' about Crouton ...he's dead anyway

 

[cool.sound]

economy economy economy

or $$$$

patch 7 beta moved markets to only province (city pop 5 build requirement)

and colonization only -30% distance maint. cost (instead of -50%)

almost getting to be a OCC mod /// small empire no alex the great or rome empire

 

[cool.sound]

P.S. please post a savegame

 

[Manco Capac]

The opening post links to the different turnsets AND passing saves to the next player. I did organize for that reason.

 

[cool.sound]

boodycat 0970 from lymond is the newest one i can get?

unless i missed one

 

[Manco Capac]

Haha, I forgot to upload my save. Will fix that.

 

[cool.sound]

np

and what of the deity indians?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=12549972#post12549972

post 2727 main PAE thread