PIE's Ancient Mediterranean on Deity

[Manco Capac]

I have seen. Lemme just a tad of time. I didn't expected 6 votes.

--------------------

Bootyca 820 BC or something like that should be the latest.

 

[Manco Capac]

Fixed in the second post of this succession game. I did not forget the upload, I just forgot I did upload.

 

[lymond]

hmmm...wasn't your save upload at post #478? I hope I have the right save.

 

[Manco Capac]

hmmm...wasn't your save upload at post #478? I hope I have the right save.

Yes, it is that one. BTW, if you got some plannings, don't shy on sharing them. You're not my underling, right?

 

[lymond]

You're not my underling, right?

I own you! Bow before my Eminence! RESPECT MAH AUTHORITAH!!! ......

Ofc, your thoughts would be appreciated as well

 

[Manco Capac]

Ok, wait for 5-7 mins.

 

[Manco Capac]

Two main goals:

1) Retrieve economic stability at 50% without wiping out your economy.
2) Conquer Hatshe while using TH for the strongest city (especially the killer Sphinx)

Expansion should be done on the basis of a good reason like a good resource, but that's unnecessary with forts and a couple of roads.

Siege engineering will BE needed to take down Hatshe defenses.

Globally, that's it.
Enfin, I believe in your judgement. You did more benefitting actions than I did until now. DoWing Croesus started with a humiliating defeat until you convinced Ephesus people to join.

 

[lymond]

So I think my turnset will probably focus on reestablishing an economy (that we really never had ) and prepping for war.

Not sure really what Magnet does for us. Is it the trade routes or pre-reqs?

Long-term tech goals?

 

[Manco Capac]

Win culture.

 

[Doshin]

Magnet looks pretty popular among the AI (both that we can trade with have it).

Siege Engineering sounds fine to me. After that, perhaps we could aim for Civic Soldiers? (long term target)

What tech opens up tech trading, BTW? I don't think it's Alpha...

 

[Manco Capac]

@Doshin

Compendium on how PAE works

PAE is a simulation of ancient times. We start at the neolithic and ends at the beginning of Middle Ages. As we progress through techs, the immediate assumption is how exponential the tech costs are: at the end near the AP tech, on epic, that can be near a million beakers, sorta 5 times the last tech of FTech in regular BTS.

We start at the neolithic, then enters Bronze Age, then Iron Age, then Classical Age and at last, one I never reached yet, Middle Ages, which I think starts with the worst tech of the tech tree, being Heresy (a huge tech and development drawback by many buildings obsolescence; probably a sim of Dark Ages).

The most notable era is the neolithic for being stuck with OCC-like play. Until Internal Colonization tech (Bronze Age) where Settlers are available for expansion, all tribes start with one city (on deity, two tribes). Early game is noticeable with complete lack of control with animals much stronger, FOW constantly coming back, lack of gold and even workers being attacked by outside animals inside the culture.

For a huge part of the game, animals are the only enemies. Around 450 turns on epic with them. I can assure you with even strong army, they are a pain and can spawn at one tile away, meaning the classical fogbusting tricks only work on regular barbs and barb cities.

PAE is mainly python and XML changes, thus is not a profound change in how the AI behaves. It's a heap of python-based events like the tax revolts, city capitulation, easy capitulation (an AI with 4 cities and less will capitulate instantly once you captured one city), etc.

The monolithic mechanics that needed to be observed throughout the game are:

Tax slider​

Tax slider (gold slider) must be 50% or less. For each additional 5% increment, each city gains 1% odd of expensive (in money) revolt. That situation happens when you get equal number of happy faces and unhappy ones. For each spare happy face, you can creep the tax slider for a 5% more without any chance of revolt. It's like dozing the population with entertainment in such a way they accept more readily abuses.

Unhappiness and Unhealthiness​

Another important notion is how important to keep people healthy and happy.
Once you get unhappiness, that leads to some odd of emigration (-2 pops+emigrant) and possible revolts. Once you get sickness, that leads to some odd of emigration (-2 pops+emigrant) and another simultaneous odd of disease outbreak, which can lead to 5 pops and more lost.

Food bin​

The particularity of PAE is how long it takes for growing. For bins can be like 3 times bigger to fill. Nevertheless, there are many forms of granaries, totalizing 75% filled after growth, making the balance a bit. Slavery is thus weaker early.

Improvements​

They cost cash! Don't spam them.

Ultra defense​

This mod highly favors defense over offense, until sieges and lots of bombardment units (think of CivIII catapults in various forms like chariots, archers, sieges, etc.).

If you got more question, feel free to ask them while playing. Because there is a multitude of details to be learnt while playing and too long to ennumerate.

 

[lymond]

Sorry folks, I'm flakin' this evening. My odd sleep patterns are cyclical, and I'm getting hit hard recently. I'll definitely pick this up tomorrow.

 

[Doshin]

Cheers Tachy. Do unhappy citizens refuse to work tiles (while costing money/eating food) like in the base game? Or do they only increase the chances of a revolt?

How aggressive are the AI? Are the personalities just imported from BTS? (Hatty is still Hatty, but Shaka becomes... someone. I remember hearing his music.)

Just wondering, because the +4 diplo wonder that came with Chaldean (?) Mathematics would be OP'd in the base game, if not quite broken.

 

[Manco Capac]

I use my power of the roster head and play a mini-turnset. Needs my fill of PAE and this game is more fascinating than the Indian one for being harder.

 

[Manco Capac]

Cheers Tachy. Do unhappy citizens refuse to work tiles (while costing money/eating food) like in the base game? Or do they only increase the chances of a revolt?

How aggressive are the AI? Are the personalities just imported from BTS? (Hatty is still Hatty, but Shaka becomes... someone. I remember hearing his music.)

Just wondering, because the +4 diplo wonder that came with Chaldean (?) Mathematics would be OP'd in the base game, if not quite broken.

Yes, unhappy citizens do stop working just like the original game. And I suspect they don't cost food when working on a worker or settler.

AggAI is the same as regular AggAI. Personalities are new. Personalized by PIE.
Civ themes though are kept for minimalizing the unnecessary work.

Tower of Babel is indeed an overpowered wonder. I felt it and most probably that should be issued to PIE. But, there are other diplo abuses. Like refusing pledges of vassality and beheading the ambassador gives +1 for all war dogpilers and -1 for the victim. If you do that with each city until destruction, you can get a heap of freebee diplo modifiers.

 

[Manco Capac]

    <BuildingClass>[B][COLOR="Red"]BUILDINGCLASS_LABYRINTH[/COLOR][/B]</BuildingClass>
      <Type>BUILDING_LABYRINTH</Type>
      <SpecialBuildingType>NONE</SpecialBuildingType>
      <Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_LABYRINTH</Description>
      <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_LABYRINTH_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
      <Strategy>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_LABYRINTH_STRATEGY</Strategy>
      <Advisor>ADVISOR_MILITARY</Advisor>
      <ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_BUILDING_LABYRINTH</ArtDefineTag>
      <MovieDefineTag>ART_DEF_MOVIE_LABYRINTH</MovieDefineTag>
      <HolyCity>NONE</HolyCity>
      <ReligionType>NONE</ReligionType>
      <StateReligion>NONE</StateReligion>
      <bStateReligion>0</bStateReligion>
      <PrereqReligion>NONE</PrereqReligion>
      <PrereqCorporation>NONE</PrereqCorporation>
      <FoundsCorporation>NONE</FoundsCorporation>
      <GlobalReligionCommerce>NONE</GlobalReligionCommerce>
      <GlobalCorporationCommerce>NONE</GlobalCorporationCommerce>
      <VictoryPrereq>NONE</VictoryPrereq>
      <FreeStartEra>NONE</FreeStartEra>
      <MaxStartEra>NONE</MaxStartEra>
      <ObsoleteTech>NONE</ObsoleteTech>
      <PrereqTech>TECH_DEFENCES</PrereqTech>
      <TechTypes/>
      <Bonus>NONE</Bonus>
      <PrereqBonuses/>
      <ProductionTraits>
        <ProductionTrait>
          <ProductionTraitType>TRAIT_PROTECTIVE</ProductionTraitType>
          <iProductionTrait>50</iProductionTrait>
        </ProductionTrait>
      </ProductionTraits>
      <HappinessTraits/>
      <NoBonus>NONE</NoBonus>
      <PowerBonus>NONE</PowerBonus>
      <FreeBonus>NONE</FreeBonus>
      <iNumFreeBonuses>0</iNumFreeBonuses>
      <FreeBuilding>NONE</FreeBuilding>
      <FreePromotion>NONE</FreePromotion>
      <CivicOption>NONE</CivicOption>
      <GreatPeopleUnitClass>NONE</GreatPeopleUnitClass>
      <iGreatPeopleRateChange>0</iGreatPeopleRateChange>
      <iHurryAngerModifier>0</iHurryAngerModifier>
      <bBorderObstacle>0</bBorderObstacle>
      <bTeamShare>0</bTeamShare>
      <bWater>0</bWater>
      <bRiver>0</bRiver>
      <bPower>0</bPower>
      <bDirtyPower>0</bDirtyPower>
      <bAreaCleanPower>0</bAreaCleanPower>
      <DiploVoteType>NONE</DiploVoteType>
      <bForceTeamVoteEligible>0</bForceTeamVoteEligible>
      <bCapital>0</bCapital>
      <bGovernmentCenter>0</bGovernmentCenter>
      <bGoldenAge>0</bGoldenAge>
      <bAllowsNukes>0</bAllowsNukes>
      <bMapCentering>0</bMapCentering>
      <bNoUnhappiness>0</bNoUnhappiness>
      <bNoUnhealthyPopulation>0</bNoUnhealthyPopulation>
      <bBuildingOnlyHealthy>0</bBuildingOnlyHealthy>
     [COLOR="Red"][B] <bNeverCapture>1</bNeverCapture>[/B][/COLOR]
      <bNukeImmune>0</bNukeImmune>
      <bPrereqReligion>0</bPrereqReligion>
      <bCenterInCity>1</bCenterInCity>
      <iAIWeight>0</iAIWeight>
      <iCost>600</iCost>
      <iHurryCostModifier>0</iHurryCostModifier>
      <iAdvancedStartCost>-1</iAdvancedStartCost>
      <iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>0</iAdvancedStartCostIncrease>
      <iMinAreaSize>-1</iMinAreaSize>
      <iConquestProb>100</iConquestProb>
      <iCitiesPrereq>0</iCitiesPrereq>
      <iTeamsPrereq>0</iTeamsPrereq>
      <iLevelPrereq>0</iLevelPrereq>
      <iMinLatitude>0</iMinLatitude>
      <iMaxLatitude>90</iMaxLatitude>
      <iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
      <iGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iGreatGeneralRateModifier>
      <iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>0</iDomesticGreatGeneralRateModifier>
      <iGlobalGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGlobalGreatPeopleRateModifier>
      <iAnarchyModifier>0</iAnarchyModifier>
      <iGoldenAgeModifier>0</iGoldenAgeModifier>
      <iGlobalHurryModifier>0</iGlobalHurryModifier>
      <iExperience>0</iExperience>
      <iGlobalExperience>0</iGlobalExperience>
      <iFoodKept>0</iFoodKept>
      <iAirlift>0</iAirlift>
      <iAirModifier>0</iAirModifier>
      <iAirUnitCapacity>0</iAirUnitCapacity>
      <iNukeModifier>0</iNukeModifier>
      <iNukeExplosionRand>0</iNukeExplosionRand>
      <iFreeSpecialist>0</iFreeSpecialist>
      <iAreaFreeSpecialist>0</iAreaFreeSpecialist>
      <iGlobalFreeSpecialist>0</iGlobalFreeSpecialist>
      <iMaintenanceModifier>0</iMaintenanceModifier>
      <iWarWearinessModifier>0</iWarWearinessModifier>
      <iGlobalWarWearinessModifier>0</iGlobalWarWearinessModifier>
      <iEnemyWarWearinessModifier>50</iEnemyWarWearinessModifier>
      <iHealRateChange>0</iHealRateChange>
      <iHealth>0</iHealth>
      <iAreaHealth>0</iAreaHealth>
      <iGlobalHealth>0</iGlobalHealth>
      <iHappiness>1</iHappiness>
      <iAreaHappiness>0</iAreaHappiness>
      <iGlobalHappiness>0</iGlobalHappiness>
      <iStateReligionHappiness>0</iStateReligionHappiness>
      <iWorkerSpeedModifier>0</iWorkerSpeedModifier>
      <iMilitaryProductionModifier>0</iMilitaryProductionModifier>
      <iSpaceProductionModifier>0</iSpaceProductionModifier>
      <iGlobalSpaceProductionModifier>0</iGlobalSpaceProductionModifier>
      <iTradeRoutes>0</iTradeRoutes>
      <iCoastalTradeRoutes>0</iCoastalTradeRoutes>
      <iGlobalTradeRoutes>0</iGlobalTradeRoutes>
      <iTradeRouteModifier>0</iTradeRouteModifier>
      <iForeignTradeRouteModifier>0</iForeignTradeRouteModifier>
      <iGlobalPopulationChange>0</iGlobalPopulationChange>
      <iFreeTechs>0</iFreeTechs>
      <iDefense>50</iDefense>
      <iBombardDefense>0</iBombardDefense>
      <iAllCityDefense>0</iAllCityDefense>
      <iEspionageDefense>0</iEspionageDefense>
      <iAsset>1</iAsset>
      <iPower>2</iPower>
      <fVisibilityPriority>1.0</fVisibilityPriority>
      <SeaPlotYieldChanges/>
      <RiverPlotYieldChanges/>
      <GlobalSeaPlotYieldChanges/>
      <YieldChanges/>
      <CommerceChanges/>
      <ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges>
        <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
        <iCommerce>0</iCommerce>
        <iCommerce>6</iCommerce>
      </ObsoleteSafeCommerceChanges>
      <CommerceChangeDoubleTimes/>
      <CommerceModifiers/>
      <GlobalCommerceModifiers/>
      <SpecialistExtraCommerces/>
      <StateReligionCommerces/>
      <CommerceHappinesses/>
      <ReligionChanges/>
      <SpecialistCounts/>
      <FreeSpecialistCounts/>
      <CommerceFlexibles/>
      <CommerceChangeOriginalOwners/>
      <ConstructSound>AS2D_BUILD_WALLS</ConstructSound>
      <BonusHealthChanges/>
      <BonusHappinessChanges/>
      <BonusProductionModifiers>
        <BonusProductionModifier>
          <BonusType>BONUS_STONE</BonusType>
          <iProductonModifier>100</iProductonModifier>
        </BonusProductionModifier>
      </BonusProductionModifiers>
      <UnitCombatFreeExperiences/>
      <DomainFreeExperiences>
        <DomainFreeExperience>
          <DomainType>DOMAIN_LAND</DomainType>
          <iExperience>2</iExperience>
        </DomainFreeExperience>
      </DomainFreeExperiences>
      <DomainProductionModifiers/>
      <BuildingHappinessChanges/>
      <PrereqBuildingClasses/>
      <BuildingClassNeededs/>
      <SpecialistYieldChanges/>
      <BonusYieldModifiers/>
      <ImprovementFreeSpecialists/>
      <Flavors>
        <Flavor>
          <FlavorType>FLAVOR_MILITARY</FlavorType>
          <iFlavor>8</iFlavor>
        </Flavor>
        <Flavor>
          <FlavorType>FLAVOR_PRODUCTION</FlavorType>
          <iFlavor>3</iFlavor>
        </Flavor>
      </Flavors>
      <HotKey/>
      <bAltDown>0</bAltDown>
      <bShiftDown>0</bShiftDown>
      <bCtrlDown>0</bCtrlDown>
      <iHotKeyPriority>0</iHotKeyPriority>
    </BuildingInfo>

Wow. To my great surprise, the fact the Minos Labyrinth was razed when we captured was all along intended. Why? I don't facking know.

I guess that's historical or some random weird intentions from PIE.

 

[Manco Capac]

Mini-turnset for fun.

 

[Doshin]

I may be able to play a mini-set tonight, if my dinner plans don't materialize. Just 3-4 turns... so as to receive feedback before I screw anything up too badly. I'll then rinse and repeat on Saturday/Sunday.

 

[Manco Capac]

Oh Doshin. I don't think at this point the game is screwable.

 

[Doshin]

Excellent. All the glory and none of the risk.

As to the Labyrinth... are any other great wonders automatically razed? Bit of a shame really, although I can understand why if it is intended. The base game limits the appeal of building certain wonders which offer lasting, empire wide benefits (Stonehenge/Pyramids/Notre Dam etc.). It's more effective to build an army and just take them.