[Rant] Missed Gaelic Swordsmen!

[Thyrwyn]

I joined the addiction w/ Civ III Gold. I'm playing the Celts for the first time and I missed their Special Unit! I am on a Large 60% water Archipelago map with max number of civs. Just got Feudalism. Nearest Iron is at the far side of the next land mass over - through the English and Roman Empires. No horses, either for that matter. O well. Just venting.

Got mapmaking early - but couldn't cross to the next land mass over until I built the Lighthouse.

Looks like the English and I are going to go to war in the middel ages w/ Spearmen and Bowman - though I will get Longbows before they do

 

[superslug]

Welcome to CFC!

Missing out on resources in rough going, but if you can conquer them with "regular" guys, then it should help you as a player in the long run.

 

[Xen]

I really wish UUs either were not rendered obsolete, or had UU upgrade for ezch civ- that way you wouldnever miss out on a civs UU

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by Xen
I really wish UUs either were not rendered obsolete, or had UU upgrade for ezch civ- that way you wouldnever miss out on a civs UU

In case you play, say, Egypt, and haven't got a GA yet, you could build War Chariots in modern times (if you have horses then). A UU is obsolete when GA was due, new unit (tech) is available in UU's upgrade path and the possibly needed resources for that new unit are connected.
So Egypt could build War Chariots and Cavalry at the same time (if they haven't had a GA).

 

[Gogf]

Well, that's true, but what if you have a wonder golden age, but you still want your fast swordsman? I would say don't let it go obsolete, or make it go obsolete WAY up the tech tree.

 

[siberian_wolf]

That just happened to me now... I am playing with the Celts too, but I got the Gallic Swordsman. The only problem is that I got them in the end of the Anciest Era, so I built only 15-20 of them, and now I just discovered Feudalism and they got replaced by Medieval Infantry. Dawn!!! I like the extra movement of the Gallic Swordsman much more than the extra attack of the Medieval Infantry. I'm really pissed off...

 

[kb2tvl]

I really dislike all the midevil iron units now. Each of the Midevil UU obselete so quickly in c3/ptw that you end up upgrading to a unit that is inferior(imo). For example, the legion compared to a MI or GS to MI... Which would you rather have? C3 is very unbalanced in this regard. Now, c3c regains that balance by limiting the trading of maps and contacts. This slows down the ancient age tech progression a lot.

 

[Thyrwyn]

This was really weird: apparently the game will not let you 'miss' your UU. I settled near and roaded to one of the Irons on the far side of the Roman Empire (14 turns by Galley w/ Lighthouse away). Note that this was after I had access to MDI.

there were Gaelic Swordsmen up in my Build Options

But it gets weirder - Three turns after my first GS gets shipped overseas to defend against Ottoman aggresion - he attacks and wins vs an Archer - Golden Age begins!

nothing out of the ordinary yet....

but Gaelic Swordsmen then disappear from my Build list

Guess I'll survive w/ the 15 I'd built/upgraded in the meantime. Also of interest - While upgrading Warriors it upgraded them to GS (not MDI) for 80 gold each - after the GA started - it upgraded to MDI for 60 gold.

The only thing I can deduce from this is that Civ will let you build your UU If you normally would have missed it IF you haven't had your GA yet.

Neat (and in this game I am very grateful) - but weird.

Thyrwyn

 

[NewbieHere]

Yeah, I don't know if you have noticed this when you upgrade a gallic swordsman to medieval infantry, it costs 0 gold.

 

[siberian_wolf]

Just have to say one thing... ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! Gallic Swordsman is sooooo great, and Medieval Infantry sucks so much... it's so unfair to be forced to start building MI when you get Feudalism instead of GS.
I said that before, but I'm really pissed off... I love the Japanese and its Samurai, and just when I found a civ and UU that was compatible with my playing style, they just take the UU away to replace it with MI?????? Life is indeed cruel...

 

[Admiral_Tarton]

Yes, it is
fwahaha!

 

[The Last Conformist]

When you've got Feudalism, you're not far from Chivalry, which gives you Knights, and Gallics are not much good against Pikemen anyway. I wouldn't take it so hard.

 

[siberian_wolf]

I know I'll have knights soon, but I'm at war against Iriquois AND Mongols. The Iriquois are almost defeated, so I don't care much 'bout them. But it will take a few turns to get Chivalry, and more turns to produce lots of knights, and in the time, I'll just have to hold a war against two civs with only 10-15 Gallic Swordsmen, since I really don't think that producing MI while I'm waiting is worth something.

You also would want to consider that it's the Mongols!!!! They are very agressive, and they are pretty close to my main cities, so it's a dangerous fight...

 

[siberian_wolf]

I know I'll have knights soon, but I'm at war against Iriquois AND Mongols. The Iriquois are almost defeated, so I don't care much 'bout them. But it will take a few turns to get Chivalry, and more turns to produce lots of knights, and in the time, I'll just have to hold a war against two civs with only 10-15 Gallic Swordsmen, since I really don't think that producing MI while I'm waiting is worth something.

You also would want to consider that it's the Mongols!!!! They are very agressive, and they are pretty close to my main cities, so it's a dangerous fight...

 

[valamas]

Originally posted by Xen
I really wish UUs either were not rendered obsolete, or had UU upgrade for ezch civ- that way you wouldnever miss out on a civs UU

I agree.

After I find my unique units have passed their effectiveness stage. I place them in my capital city as an Honour Guard

 

[Goober]

Ya, I can sympathize with the not having Strategic Resource bit. I seem to always be missing a really critical resource, either Iron, Aluminium, Rubber, Oil, or Rubber. I have never had a game where I have had every single Resource in C3C yet . . .

 

[Grille]

Ok, the Celts are somewhat special in this regard.
But if I wanted to keep building some Gallic Swordsmen after GA, I'd avoid feudalism for the time being (say I have no horses). Then I'd probably aim for a horse source.
However, delaying feudalism for too long is not so good, since knights are better anyways.

 

[siberian_wolf]

Ok, Grille, you do have a good point, since I could reseach Monotheism first, then Feudalism, and THEN Chivalry. Only problem is, I'm a big fan of the Great Library, so have built it. So I was there, happy with my Golden Age, producing Gallic Swordsmen like crazy, but suddenly a message pops saying I got Feudalism from X and Y civs... and the next turn, I realize I just built FIVE MI... they would be much better if they were Gallic Swordmen...

 

[Thyrwyn]

My whole problem this game was that I didn't get Iron hooked up until well into the Middle Ages - after I had already built the Sistine Chapel! I was just surprised to see the UU at all!

At this point I've got Cavalry and am busy punishing the Persians for their insolence in attacking me:

They executed a very necessary two front strike in an Attempt to claim my second Iron (that I took from the Otto's) and one of my Saltpeter sources (right on their main border). I think they were hoping that the Iron was my only one, since the two cities from which they are launching that attack are so far from their main territory as to be undefensible and they didn't have that much down there to attack with.

I have to say that I am learning a lot this game. The AI is really good at picking off stragglers - even if it means sacrificing lower cost units to do it.

and War Weariness - even when you are the non-initiator.

Thyrwyn