How's this sound for a basic plan? Leave Timbuktu as is for a couple turns until it grows, then put it on one of the two hammer tiles to speed the barracks and an escort warrior. Meanwhile, irrigate the sugar to the south to make a four food tile for the next settler. With so many tech possibilities, I don't know what to suggest, but if we carry through on Bronze Working and have copper, we could try an axe rush on Asoka.
RB2b - Mali - Noble - Just Win Baby!
- Thread starter Speaker
- Start date
Good turn, Methos. I agree, a barracks is the right choice, although we shouldn't delay settling Red Dot for too long, lest the Russians fence us in.
Here's a potential revised dotmap of the territory which is pretty much ours, if we care to claim it:
Its pretty loose, but I don't see much point in making it tighter. Most of what we lose are desert and plains tiles. Working them probably wouldn't make up for the loss in having to build settlers, defend the extra cities, pay maintenance, etc...
What really concerns me, though, is the area east of Red Dot. Getting red dot should be our next priority, but maybe we could even grab one more city out there. It depends on what the Russians do, but I think one along the floodplain would be ideal, followed by ones on the river slightly closer to red dot, or along the coast, in line to grab the extra gold.
After all, how can you ever have enough bling?![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
Oh, and people: Nobody, and I mean nobody, sign open borders with Asoka. Peter... well, we should hold off. But Asoka might be boxed in, and therefore might poach lands well within our reach. That would not be good.
-Jester
Veovim: That sounds splendid. Turning Timbuktu into a settler factory is obviously a high priority, and therefore, so is food. I don't know about the axe rush... I've never been much of an ancient war advocate. It leaves too much to chance. I suggest that, if Asoka is easy pickings, we wait until later in the ancient age. He'll be weaker, we'll have a larger force, and we'll run him over.
Plus, an early war would definitely lose us the race in the east against Peter. Might be worth it, but it's not the safest choice.
But, as Muad'dib said, beware always taking the safest choice, because it leads ever downward into stagnation.
Here's a potential revised dotmap of the territory which is pretty much ours, if we care to claim it:
Its pretty loose, but I don't see much point in making it tighter. Most of what we lose are desert and plains tiles. Working them probably wouldn't make up for the loss in having to build settlers, defend the extra cities, pay maintenance, etc...
What really concerns me, though, is the area east of Red Dot. Getting red dot should be our next priority, but maybe we could even grab one more city out there. It depends on what the Russians do, but I think one along the floodplain would be ideal, followed by ones on the river slightly closer to red dot, or along the coast, in line to grab the extra gold.
After all, how can you ever have enough bling?
Oh, and people: Nobody, and I mean nobody, sign open borders with Asoka. Peter... well, we should hold off. But Asoka might be boxed in, and therefore might poach lands well within our reach. That would not be good.
-Jester
Veovim: That sounds splendid. Turning Timbuktu into a settler factory is obviously a high priority, and therefore, so is food. I don't know about the axe rush... I've never been much of an ancient war advocate. It leaves too much to chance. I suggest that, if Asoka is easy pickings, we wait until later in the ancient age. He'll be weaker, we'll have a larger force, and we'll run him over.
Plus, an early war would definitely lose us the race in the east against Peter. Might be worth it, but it's not the safest choice.
But, as Muad'dib said, beware always taking the safest choice, because it leads ever downward into stagnation.
regoarrarr
King
Well I already played.
TUrn report:
---------------------------
1920 BC (1) - Decide to keep the barracks and worker builds. Decide to veto bronze workign as we want to fight with skirmishers (our UU) mostly. I think Music would be a good goal as the first to research that gets a free Great Merchant. It's 5 techs away (Writing, Alphabet, Math, Drama, Music) but I think it's reasonable. Next player can feel free to veto. With the eastern part of the land mapped out, send our scouting warrior to pop a hut (8 turns away). Djenne's borders will expand in 6 turns and seal off the Indians. Seems reasonable to not sign open borders with them until we get a few more cities back there. Bombay seems like a good first target for our skirmishers
1880 (2) - Finish farm on the wheat start a road
1840
1800
1760 (5) - Go to chop the forest but realize we can't Not till Bronze Working. Move worker to grassland to build a cottage. Scouting worker has been trapped by the borders of Peter's 2nd city
1720 (6) - Djenne's borders expand, trapping Bombay and also taking one of its 9 squares.
1680
1640 (8) - Writing comes in - sign Open borders with Peter - we should send a missionary over there if/when we can. Start on Alphabet (19 turns)
1600 (9) - Cottage done, make sure we are working it so it will grow to a hamlet and start another cottage for some good cottage spam...
1560 (10) - Worker in Djenne completes, start on warrior.
Worker is unmoved in Djenne - I say we start connecting our gold hills and/or farm the flood plains. Warrior is for a garrison for the 3rd city - Timbuktu will both grow to 6 and finish its barracks in about 2 turns, so it should build a settler (or 2!). The scouting warrior is *in* St. Petersburg, he should go NW-W-W to pop that hut.
@Veovim - didn't see your note till I was already done. I think we want to put a plantation on the sugar (instead of a farm) but we can't do that yet (not sure what tech it requires)
@Jester - Definitely agreed on the no open borders with Asoka. I signed one with Peter to get our warrior home and to pop that hut but we can cancel it, though I don't think it hurts us that much since he can't really go anywhere we don't want him to (as opposed to Asoka who can settle in our back lands.
I made up a dot map but I think yours is probably better.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB2b_BC-1560.Civ4SavedGame
TUrn report:
---------------------------
1920 BC (1) - Decide to keep the barracks and worker builds. Decide to veto bronze workign as we want to fight with skirmishers (our UU) mostly. I think Music would be a good goal as the first to research that gets a free Great Merchant. It's 5 techs away (Writing, Alphabet, Math, Drama, Music) but I think it's reasonable. Next player can feel free to veto. With the eastern part of the land mapped out, send our scouting warrior to pop a hut (8 turns away). Djenne's borders will expand in 6 turns and seal off the Indians. Seems reasonable to not sign open borders with them until we get a few more cities back there. Bombay seems like a good first target for our skirmishers
1880 (2) - Finish farm on the wheat start a road
1840
1800
1760 (5) - Go to chop the forest but realize we can't
Not till Bronze Working. Move worker to grassland to build a cottage. Scouting worker has been trapped by the borders of Peter's 2nd city1720 (6) - Djenne's borders expand, trapping Bombay and also taking one of its 9 squares.
1680
1640 (8) - Writing comes in - sign Open borders with Peter - we should send a missionary over there if/when we can. Start on Alphabet (19 turns)
1600 (9) - Cottage done, make sure we are working it so it will grow to a hamlet and start another cottage for some good cottage spam...
1560 (10) - Worker in Djenne completes, start on warrior.
Worker is unmoved in Djenne - I say we start connecting our gold hills and/or farm the flood plains. Warrior is for a garrison for the 3rd city - Timbuktu will both grow to 6 and finish its barracks in about 2 turns, so it should build a settler (or 2!). The scouting warrior is *in* St. Petersburg, he should go NW-W-W to pop that hut.
@Veovim - didn't see your note till I was already done. I think we want to put a plantation on the sugar (instead of a farm) but we can't do that yet (not sure what tech it requires)
@Jester - Definitely agreed on the no open borders with Asoka. I signed one with Peter to get our warrior home and to pop that hut but we can cancel it, though I don't think it hurts us that much since he can't really go anywhere we don't want him to (as opposed to Asoka who can settle in our back lands.
I made up a dot map but I think yours is probably better.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/RB2b_BC-1560.Civ4SavedGame
StarrySurprise
Chieftain
Got it. Priority will be red dot.
regoarrarr
King
Veovim said:
I'm not sure how many turns it would take. Maybe I'm just ultra-paranoid about wasting worker turns. But if there are other tiles that can be improved (adding a farm anywhere that we're already working will be +1 food, I think we should prioritize those first. I was thinking maybe cottages on areas that were already 2 food (Grassland) and farms on the plains (to get them to +2 food).
Not sure about how many people we can support with happiness / health though. We definitely want to get a lot of cottages ASAP to take advantage of our financial trait.
StarrySurprise
Chieftain
My priority was improving economy and maximizing output. I increased the growth of Djenne considerably, and it should be fine at size 6, then 7 once it gets gold. Once the surrounding terrain is fully improved, that city will be an unstoppable powerhouse for settlers/workers.
1560 BC (1) I move our warrior to try to pop the hut next to Peter.
I switched our religious civic to Organized Religion, and that incurs a cost of 1 gold/turn. Despite this cost, I feel that it is justified, because its better to not forget later.
I veto the decision to go for alphabet and instead choose bronze working. There are many advantages, especially for us to see copper, an important early resource.
1520 BC (2) Zzz.
IT - Asoka wants Open Borders. I told him to take his treaty and stuff it.
1480 BC (3) - I pop the hut and out comes 7 barbs! Perhaps my move was foolish, but perhaps these barbs will wreak havoc on Peter and slow down his development. Or maybe theyll promote his units. Its hard to tell whether my move was good or bad, but I hope some of Peters improvements get pillaged.
IT - Our brave warrior killed one barb then promptly got slaughtered.
1440 BC (4) Barracks finished in Timbuktu, start skirmisher.
1400 BC (5) Zzz.
1360 BC (6) Worker improvements, focus on irrigating floodplains. Zzz.
1320 BC (7) Bronze Working comes in! We have copper to the south of Timbuktu, and theres one right on top of red dot too! That has to be our next target (although perhaps we should found one space to the right of red dot?).
I use our spiritual powers to switch to the slavery civic. It may prove useful.
Research set to Alphabet again. Good thing beakers stay put.
1280 BC (8) Timbuktu skirmisher -> settler.
I dispatch the skirmisher to go to the general vicinity of red dot.
1240 BC (9) Zzz.
1200 BC (10) Move workers onto gold hill, next leader should mine and road it.
I hit enter and left everything as is.
Notice that I did not build roads on the floodplains. Since a river connects Djenne and Timbuktu, I felt it unnecessary to build roads. With workers having 2 movement points, we can always go back and add the roads later.
I believe for now, Djenne will be best at size 6, at which it should build another worker then a settler. After the current settler, Timbuktu should build military to cover Djennes settlers.
Red dot is now more important. We should be able to get it in 16 turns, so lets hope the barbs slowed Peter down enough. Our civ wont be crippled without it, but we could cripple Peter...
In fact, since settlers have 2 mp now, if we use our skirmisher (fortified on a hill, next leader can decide to scout or stay put) to scout out and make sure the place is safe, we could conceivably get there in less turns.
The Saved Game
1560 BC (1) I move our warrior to try to pop the hut next to Peter.
I switched our religious civic to Organized Religion, and that incurs a cost of 1 gold/turn. Despite this cost, I feel that it is justified, because its better to not forget later.
I veto the decision to go for alphabet and instead choose bronze working. There are many advantages, especially for us to see copper, an important early resource.
1520 BC (2) Zzz.
IT - Asoka wants Open Borders. I told him to take his treaty and stuff it.
1480 BC (3) - I pop the hut and out comes 7 barbs! Perhaps my move was foolish, but perhaps these barbs will wreak havoc on Peter and slow down his development. Or maybe theyll promote his units. Its hard to tell whether my move was good or bad, but I hope some of Peters improvements get pillaged.
IT - Our brave warrior killed one barb then promptly got slaughtered.
1440 BC (4) Barracks finished in Timbuktu, start skirmisher.
1400 BC (5) Zzz.
1360 BC (6) Worker improvements, focus on irrigating floodplains. Zzz.
1320 BC (7) Bronze Working comes in! We have copper to the south of Timbuktu, and theres one right on top of red dot too! That has to be our next target (although perhaps we should found one space to the right of red dot?).
I use our spiritual powers to switch to the slavery civic. It may prove useful.
Research set to Alphabet again. Good thing beakers stay put.
1280 BC (8) Timbuktu skirmisher -> settler.
I dispatch the skirmisher to go to the general vicinity of red dot.
1240 BC (9) Zzz.
1200 BC (10) Move workers onto gold hill, next leader should mine and road it.
I hit enter and left everything as is.
Notice that I did not build roads on the floodplains. Since a river connects Djenne and Timbuktu, I felt it unnecessary to build roads. With workers having 2 movement points, we can always go back and add the roads later.
I believe for now, Djenne will be best at size 6, at which it should build another worker then a settler. After the current settler, Timbuktu should build military to cover Djennes settlers.
Red dot is now more important. We should be able to get it in 16 turns, so lets hope the barbs slowed Peter down enough. Our civ wont be crippled without it, but we could cripple Peter...
In fact, since settlers have 2 mp now, if we use our skirmisher (fortified on a hill, next leader can decide to scout or stay put) to scout out and make sure the place is safe, we could conceivably get there in less turns.
The Saved Game
regoarrarr
King
Looking good. One thing I wanted to point out that I just noticed is that even our cottage is producing the extra GPT (3 gpt) because it's on a river (river is 1, cottage is 1, extra for being financial is 1). The hamlet is now producing 4 gpt! This means that we should try and get cottages down on any tile on the river
Also - our skirmisher is eligible for a promotion - I was thinkign Drill for an extra first strike chance? They already start out with 1-2 first strikes. If we got 4 or so skirmishers we could probably take out Bombay, which we may want to do sooner rather than later.
Also - our skirmisher is eligible for a promotion - I was thinkign Drill for an extra first strike chance? They already start out with 1-2 first strikes. If we got 4 or so skirmishers we could probably take out Bombay, which we may want to do sooner rather than later.
What to do about the settler and skirmisher is certainly an interesting decision. My first thought was to have the skirmisher escort the settler, and get city defense 1 for once the town is settled, or drill 1 if we run into barbs and need an immediate boost. Then I noticed that the skirmisher actually has 4 exp, and will be up for another promotion soon. If we want to try banking on that, we could get either drill 2 (guaranteed first strike), or combat 2 (overall +20% strength). Seeing as the skirmishers already get 1 to 2 first strikes, I would probably opt for the combat option, but I would imagine any of these paths could work well.
Edit: I've also been wondering whether or not we want that granary at Djenne, seeing as it looks like we're going to halt it at size six. The extra health will be useful once it starts growing again, so we'll definitely want it later, but it might be a more defensive move to switch to another skirmisher for the time being. Then again, maybe I'm just being paranoid. Either way, I'd suggest moving the governor from emphasize food to production, or it'll be tied up a long time.
Edit: I've also been wondering whether or not we want that granary at Djenne, seeing as it looks like we're going to halt it at size six. The extra health will be useful once it starts growing again, so we'll definitely want it later, but it might be a more defensive move to switch to another skirmisher for the time being. Then again, maybe I'm just being paranoid. Either way, I'd suggest moving the governor from emphasize food to production, or it'll be tied up a long time.
StarrySurprise
Chieftain
Good point about the granary. Honestly, I wasn't sure what to build there. The idea was just for the city to grow to a big enough size to start cranking out settlers, e.g. before it reaches unhappiness. Any less and we'd be losing out on commerce from rivers, and we'd work faster by having a larger city (any citizen that produces more than 2 food/shield will make settlers/workers build faster).
I guess a skirmisher makes more sense, but I was really just waiting for the city to grow.
I guess a skirmisher makes more sense, but I was really just waiting for the city to grow.
regoarrarr
King
so.... who's up?
Jabah
Emperor
Hi there,
I just managed to make my CivIV and new Computer work together and try a first private game before joining the RB community again...
Then a strange/funny/unlikely thing happens while reading your RB2b SG : the map is EXACTLY the same as the one I am/was playing on my first totaly random map (including same starting point, same ressources... not same civilisation, I was playing Spain).
So it leads to a much more serious question : considering that having exactly the same map by sheer luck is, well very unlikely, does it mean that there is only a LIMITED number of map to play with....
(knowing the Civ series from the 1st one, I seriously don't think, but exactly same map IS disturbing)
Play with you soon
Jabah
I just managed to make my CivIV and new Computer work together and try a first private game before joining the RB community again...
Then a strange/funny/unlikely thing happens while reading your RB2b SG : the map is EXACTLY the same as the one I am/was playing on my first totaly random map (including same starting point, same ressources... not same civilisation, I was playing Spain).
So it leads to a much more serious question : considering that having exactly the same map by sheer luck is, well very unlikely, does it mean that there is only a LIMITED number of map to play with....
(knowing the Civ series from the 1st one, I seriously don't think, but exactly same map IS disturbing)
Play with you soon
Jabah
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Jabah
Emperor
Beginning of threadjack
I have read the map topic thread, and I am still confused regarding the results and partial conlucions...
BTW, for next Epic(s) (or even for SG) it could be good to find a way to get a really 'new' map and not a 'preconstructed' one (ie. sponsor generating/moding/selecting a 'random seed').
to avoid spoiling the fun of those CivAdicts who might have already played all those maps with their dozens of game played already and will have trouble pretending they don't want to settle in BC next to the innocent looking uranium/coal hill next to the neighbour
End of threadjacking
Jabah
I have read the map topic thread, and I am still confused regarding the results and partial conlucions...
BTW, for next Epic(s) (or even for SG) it could be good to find a way to get a really 'new' map and not a 'preconstructed' one (ie. sponsor generating/moding/selecting a 'random seed').
to avoid spoiling the fun of those CivAdicts who might have already played all those maps with their dozens of game played already and will have trouble pretending they don't want to settle in BC next to the innocent looking uranium/coal hill next to the neighbour
End of threadjacking
Jabah
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Sorry to continue the threadjack, but at no point in time did we ever see duplicate maps in testing. I've looked at hundreds of starts and never came across two that were the same. No clue what's going on, but evidently something strange is taking place.
Veovim, you're up. Own hasn't posted since he said he didn't have the game, so I'm declaring him officially on hiatus until he posts that he's got it. We'll fit him in whenever.
That map thing... if that map Sirian linked to is, in fact, the map we're playing on, then I've seen it in detail that I really shouldn't have.
That would throw this team's results off. Has anyone/everyone seen that map? It might make sense just to recuse myself, or it might be that we should press on, and just make note that at this point, we knew the outline of the map.
-Jester
That map thing... if that map Sirian linked to is, in fact, the map we're playing on, then I've seen it in detail that I really shouldn't have.
That would throw this team's results off. Has anyone/everyone seen that map? It might make sense just to recuse myself, or it might be that we should press on, and just make note that at this point, we knew the outline of the map.
-Jester
regoarrarr
King
I haven't seen it or if I have I don't remember it. Of course, if this map bug is as pervasive as some folks make it out to be, maybe we have the same map I have in my SP game
. Skip me for now.
