RB2c - Mali - Noble - Just Win Baby!
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Ozymandous
Prince
Game started. Will post a screenie or two plus the save when I'm done. 
Ozymandous
Prince
....
Just spent an hour typing up the report and the $#%$#%$# page here reloaded when I tried to attach something and it was erased....
Summary... Ghengis, Frederick found. Frederick is to the South-East. I moved the starting city site one to the East to be a 'hub' between the two rivers, probably weed but oh well. Hunting, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry discovered, Mysticism queued up. Archery was given to us from a village.
Buddhism and Hinduism were founded but not by either of the two we know from what I can tell.
Skirmisher built while waiting for the city to grow to size three and a worker queued up. I still haven't gotten the timing down for when to build workers and settlers but oh well. Our worker should have plenty to do except for chopping trees and jungle however.
Here's some screenies from the time of our founding to the end of my turn. Sorry this isn't more comprehensive, but not much going on now.
Just spent an hour typing up the report and the $#%$#%$# page here reloaded when I tried to attach something and it was erased....
Summary... Ghengis, Frederick found. Frederick is to the South-East. I moved the starting city site one to the East to be a 'hub' between the two rivers, probably weed but oh well. Hunting, Agriculture, Animal Husbandry discovered, Mysticism queued up. Archery was given to us from a village.
Buddhism and Hinduism were founded but not by either of the two we know from what I can tell.
Skirmisher built while waiting for the city to grow to size three and a worker queued up. I still haven't gotten the timing down for when to build workers and settlers but oh well. Our worker should have plenty to do except for chopping trees and jungle however.
Here's some screenies from the time of our founding to the end of my turn. Sorry this isn't more comprehensive, but not much going on now.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Oooh, you guys drew a Calendar start (TM) - that is, all the resources at the starting position aren't enabled until the Calendar technology. These are generally some of the toughest positions to play from, since your silks there will be basically useless until much later in the game. This will make for a very interesting comparison to the other RB2 games, seeing as how you have a tougher start (in the future, you may want to move next to the corn, not away from it... 
)
Ozy, I always type my reports in either Notepad or Word and then cut and paste them here into these forums. Had WAY too many reports get eaten by the forum to do anything else. Sorry that it happened to you here.
)Ozy, I always type my reports in either Notepad or Word and then cut and paste them here into these forums. Had WAY too many reports get eaten by the forum to do anything else. Sorry that it happened to you here.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Sullla said:
Eh? I see Ivory, Gems, and Furs in the picture. Maybe that's a Calendar Start by some accounts, but it's not a Calendar Start(TM) in my book.
Wait until they get a real Calendar Start(TM)!
- Sirian
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
In a MP game, if those are the only resources in your capital's 21-tile radius, 1) it's definitely a Calendar start and 2) you're in trouble if anyone tries to come after you right away.
Agree though that a REAL Calendar Start (TM) is something to see!
Agree though that a REAL Calendar Start (TM) is something to see!
GOT IT!
Hmm, wondering if we should have some discussions before I get to into this. BTW, how many turns did you go, 20? Anf if so, should I do 10 or 20? (I know we got to ten each as once we get off the groung, I just do not know when we drop to 10)
Ragnoff
BTW, this will be my first Succession set of turns! woot!
Hmm, wondering if we should have some discussions before I get to into this. BTW, how many turns did you go, 20? Anf if so, should I do 10 or 20? (I know we got to ten each as once we get off the groung, I just do not know when we drop to 10)
Ragnoff
BTW, this will be my first Succession set of turns! woot!
OK, we are the mighty Milanese Empire, known as the Ping Teammates! The year is 2880 B.C., and the first Dynasty has ended. The Ragnoff family has come to power (the Malinese have no idea where that name came from, or why that some foreign sounding.
"The first thing that the first Ragnoff Emperor does is ask his advisers to study his people, and to return.
First of all, we discover that the Ping Teammates are spiritual people. They are also quite wise in the ways of finance, having started bartering with one another before we even had anything valuable to barter with! You would think as a spiritual people we would start on the path to wisdom and guidance, but it appears that in the beginning the People's greed was more important than their devotion and in the beginning learned to make roads to rocks that had pretty colors in them, and then to dig up the rocks (we started with The Wheel and Mining). This may be why the first emperor, Ozymandous the first, directed his wise men to ignore the realm of the spiritual and focus instead on all of the things we could do with the world around us.
Ozymandous told us in addition to hiding from the animals, we could hunt them! His wise men learned that certain things, when planted in the ground, yielded good food if you bothered to stay around long enough to see it grow. After hunting the animals for awhile, we found out that if we rounded out some of the animals and stuck them inside a fence, they would always be there later we wanted to eat them. But while Ozymandous modestly claimed he only pointed his people down the first of the spiritual stones, mysticism, Ragnoff the Curious discovered that he must have, in fact, learned those secrets. Speaking of stones, we seem to have a lot of them lying around. Probably because we only really want the pretty colored ones when we dig them up, but there are a lot of ugly ones usually on top of the pretty ones. However, as Ragnoff the Curious prepares to take the reins of power into his hands, he notices that some of the people are experimenting with making piles of the ugly rocks, and suggest that if we polish the ugly rocks and then stack them on top of one another, we might be able to build a building that won't fall down next time the wind blows really hard. Ragnoff the Curious is somewhat doubtful, but allows the people to continue on this project that they call masonry. One of them even pointed out that if we could make the buildings really neat looking, it might cause us to rediscover our spiritiall side (masonry is a prerequisite for the last of the early religions with monotheism)."
I was fairly surprised to discover at first that we did not found either religion, especially since we have the spiritual trait. But I looked at our starting technologies and realized why Ozzy may have chosen to develop the worker technologies, if were going to build workers, we might as well have them be able to do a wide range of tasks. The financial tray will not do is a lot of good early, sent the tile must already produced to coins before it comes in the play. However, this makes towns and villages and even better potential build, so placing cottages should have some priority, particularly where there is already abundant food resources.
"Finally, one small village of other people we found took sticks with stones on one hand in shows us how do you could use another stick with a bit of animal gut to propel the first take a great velocity, a practice they called archery. Our people, however, been much wiser than the simple villagers, realized that while the villagers stood together in groups to practice this archery, archery also be used by people who were hiding behind trees and not standing in a big group. The villagers called their people who practiced archery archers, but we call our people who uses running around tactic skirmishers."
Our skirmishers are a great ancient unit, they have a 4 strength instead of an archers 3, can get one or two first strikes instead of an archers one, yet cost the same 25 hammers. The advantage of a great ancient unit like this means that we will probably be able to defend cities with but a unit or two from rampaging barbarians and early attacks. But in some ways the advantage is short lived, and if we don't engage in any early wars, we will probably be at long bowman before we need to use this unit.
"The next order of business for Ragnoff the Curious was to investigate our city itself into inquire about the people we have. Our capital city, Timbuktu, has grown twice since the Ping Teammates started keeping records. We discover that, for all the Ozymandous dynasty did to advance the state of knowledge about what we could do with the land, he never had people organize to go out and do those things! Instead, the people were busy looking about. One group of them, armed with very little but fast-moving, were scouting about. Two other groups, armed with big sticks, were moving at a slower pace. Finally, one group of people with big sticks, and the group of people who were practice been that skirmishing idea were stationed here at Timbuktu, which probably means that barbarians would not attack Timbuktu, and explains why the Ozymandous dynasty stayed in power for almost 1200 years!
However, it does seem that the Ozymandous dynasty finally decided that since we can do all these neat things with the land, we ought to organize a group of people to do that, and that is currently with the energy of Timbuktu is going: to train a group of people in all these tasks we learned! Apparently, learning the tasks isn't the hard part, it's convincing our people they want to do this! In order to trick people into doing this, we are going to give them a title, Workers, and tell them that this is a much better title than the People Carrying Clubs, or People Figuring out Cool New Things. This training is not yet complete, and Ragnoff the Curious would not dream of interrupting it. As for the city itself, it is, on forcefully, still a rather rude place. Although we have a nice palace that we inherited from the Ozymandous dynasty, the rest of the city is pretty much a collection of huts, tents, and straw buildings. This might explain the interest in piling stones on one another in an attempt to develop better buildings!
Of the lands nearby, we have found places where animals can be herded, and were numerous things can grow. Of course, none of them is actually near our main city. Unfortunately, the resource that we planted our city on and near, the great silk fields, are still something that we cannot understand how to properly harvest. Oh well, when we get these workers, they can start building a road towards the rocks, the cows, and corn and maybe we'll send some people to live there instead of bringing all the rocks back here!"
Okay, we have no buildings, three warriors, scout and a skirmisher. I will keep the scout and the two warriors out looking around. The scout I will bring back down towards Timbuktu, hoping to investigate the immediate surroundings and find locations for our next cities. I feel that, as soon as we finish the workers, we want to start settlers. An absolutely great city site would be the desert hill immediately north of the stone. The reasoning is that the city gets to food, a hammer, and according no matter where you put it. It does, however, get the defensive bonus for the Hill, and it will be able to utilize the nearby cow and corn while only overlapping the lake with Timbuktu. It finally play 10 turns, there is no way I will get the settler out, but I will start him. If I play 20, that I believe I can found the city before my turn ends. For research, I intend to finish masonry, and then start the polytheism tomatoes use them wrong. Monotheism is the only early religion left that we would have a shot at. While the people who founded the other two religions are closer to Monotheism, it is quite possible that those civilizations, already possessing religion, will currently be picking up the worker tasks we already know and may not have a great urge to get to Monotheism. Our spiritual trait becomes much more powerful if we have founded at least one religion.
Ozymandous, I didn't mean to rewrite your turns (he's released a history of them) but I wanted to do something related to our succession game and I thought perhaps I should get some feedback from folks before I went ahead with these plans. I will probably have a chance to play my turns after the kids get done trick-or-treating, so look for a post late tomorrow night.
"The first thing that the first Ragnoff Emperor does is ask his advisers to study his people, and to return.
First of all, we discover that the Ping Teammates are spiritual people. They are also quite wise in the ways of finance, having started bartering with one another before we even had anything valuable to barter with! You would think as a spiritual people we would start on the path to wisdom and guidance, but it appears that in the beginning the People's greed was more important than their devotion and in the beginning learned to make roads to rocks that had pretty colors in them, and then to dig up the rocks (we started with The Wheel and Mining). This may be why the first emperor, Ozymandous the first, directed his wise men to ignore the realm of the spiritual and focus instead on all of the things we could do with the world around us.
Ozymandous told us in addition to hiding from the animals, we could hunt them! His wise men learned that certain things, when planted in the ground, yielded good food if you bothered to stay around long enough to see it grow. After hunting the animals for awhile, we found out that if we rounded out some of the animals and stuck them inside a fence, they would always be there later we wanted to eat them. But while Ozymandous modestly claimed he only pointed his people down the first of the spiritual stones, mysticism, Ragnoff the Curious discovered that he must have, in fact, learned those secrets. Speaking of stones, we seem to have a lot of them lying around. Probably because we only really want the pretty colored ones when we dig them up, but there are a lot of ugly ones usually on top of the pretty ones. However, as Ragnoff the Curious prepares to take the reins of power into his hands, he notices that some of the people are experimenting with making piles of the ugly rocks, and suggest that if we polish the ugly rocks and then stack them on top of one another, we might be able to build a building that won't fall down next time the wind blows really hard. Ragnoff the Curious is somewhat doubtful, but allows the people to continue on this project that they call masonry. One of them even pointed out that if we could make the buildings really neat looking, it might cause us to rediscover our spiritiall side (masonry is a prerequisite for the last of the early religions with monotheism)."
I was fairly surprised to discover at first that we did not found either religion, especially since we have the spiritual trait. But I looked at our starting technologies and realized why Ozzy may have chosen to develop the worker technologies, if were going to build workers, we might as well have them be able to do a wide range of tasks. The financial tray will not do is a lot of good early, sent the tile must already produced to coins before it comes in the play. However, this makes towns and villages and even better potential build, so placing cottages should have some priority, particularly where there is already abundant food resources.
"Finally, one small village of other people we found took sticks with stones on one hand in shows us how do you could use another stick with a bit of animal gut to propel the first take a great velocity, a practice they called archery. Our people, however, been much wiser than the simple villagers, realized that while the villagers stood together in groups to practice this archery, archery also be used by people who were hiding behind trees and not standing in a big group. The villagers called their people who practiced archery archers, but we call our people who uses running around tactic skirmishers."
Our skirmishers are a great ancient unit, they have a 4 strength instead of an archers 3, can get one or two first strikes instead of an archers one, yet cost the same 25 hammers. The advantage of a great ancient unit like this means that we will probably be able to defend cities with but a unit or two from rampaging barbarians and early attacks. But in some ways the advantage is short lived, and if we don't engage in any early wars, we will probably be at long bowman before we need to use this unit.
"The next order of business for Ragnoff the Curious was to investigate our city itself into inquire about the people we have. Our capital city, Timbuktu, has grown twice since the Ping Teammates started keeping records. We discover that, for all the Ozymandous dynasty did to advance the state of knowledge about what we could do with the land, he never had people organize to go out and do those things! Instead, the people were busy looking about. One group of them, armed with very little but fast-moving, were scouting about. Two other groups, armed with big sticks, were moving at a slower pace. Finally, one group of people with big sticks, and the group of people who were practice been that skirmishing idea were stationed here at Timbuktu, which probably means that barbarians would not attack Timbuktu, and explains why the Ozymandous dynasty stayed in power for almost 1200 years!
However, it does seem that the Ozymandous dynasty finally decided that since we can do all these neat things with the land, we ought to organize a group of people to do that, and that is currently with the energy of Timbuktu is going: to train a group of people in all these tasks we learned! Apparently, learning the tasks isn't the hard part, it's convincing our people they want to do this! In order to trick people into doing this, we are going to give them a title, Workers, and tell them that this is a much better title than the People Carrying Clubs, or People Figuring out Cool New Things. This training is not yet complete, and Ragnoff the Curious would not dream of interrupting it. As for the city itself, it is, on forcefully, still a rather rude place. Although we have a nice palace that we inherited from the Ozymandous dynasty, the rest of the city is pretty much a collection of huts, tents, and straw buildings. This might explain the interest in piling stones on one another in an attempt to develop better buildings!
Of the lands nearby, we have found places where animals can be herded, and were numerous things can grow. Of course, none of them is actually near our main city. Unfortunately, the resource that we planted our city on and near, the great silk fields, are still something that we cannot understand how to properly harvest. Oh well, when we get these workers, they can start building a road towards the rocks, the cows, and corn and maybe we'll send some people to live there instead of bringing all the rocks back here!"
Okay, we have no buildings, three warriors, scout and a skirmisher. I will keep the scout and the two warriors out looking around. The scout I will bring back down towards Timbuktu, hoping to investigate the immediate surroundings and find locations for our next cities. I feel that, as soon as we finish the workers, we want to start settlers. An absolutely great city site would be the desert hill immediately north of the stone. The reasoning is that the city gets to food, a hammer, and according no matter where you put it. It does, however, get the defensive bonus for the Hill, and it will be able to utilize the nearby cow and corn while only overlapping the lake with Timbuktu. It finally play 10 turns, there is no way I will get the settler out, but I will start him. If I play 20, that I believe I can found the city before my turn ends. For research, I intend to finish masonry, and then start the polytheism tomatoes use them wrong. Monotheism is the only early religion left that we would have a shot at. While the people who founded the other two religions are closer to Monotheism, it is quite possible that those civilizations, already possessing religion, will currently be picking up the worker tasks we already know and may not have a great urge to get to Monotheism. Our spiritual trait becomes much more powerful if we have founded at least one religion.
Ozymandous, I didn't mean to rewrite your turns (he's released a history of them) but I wanted to do something related to our succession game and I thought perhaps I should get some feedback from folks before I went ahead with these plans. I will probably have a chance to play my turns after the kids get done trick-or-treating, so look for a post late tomorrow night.
Ozymandous
Prince
No problem in 'rewriting' them. I had a nice story written up as well, but after it was eaten (for once I didn't copy it before I tinkered with the page), I went to the summary.
Yes, our chief herder figured out how to selectively breed the animals near by, on a smaller scale since we had to way to keep large herds of them (no pastures) resulting in much improved steaks for the ruler, and the plan was to gather larger herds so the populace could eat better as well.
A rather smart general had figured out how to throw sticks more accurately than the initial barbarians in the village, and hence our Skirmisher's were born.
I'm still trying to figure out when a good time to build the initial worker/settler so sorry for the potential
there.
Oh, and yah, since we didn't start with Mysticism, and Buddhism and Hinduism were founded fairly early on I didn't make it a priority. Hopefully when that worker does pop out we can improve our lands better. And yah, Sulla I thought for a few minutes on where I wanted to found the initial city, and probably still choose wrong.
I believe the second person receives 20 turns, and after that 10 but I'm ot sure.
Yes, our chief herder figured out how to selectively breed the animals near by, on a smaller scale since we had to way to keep large herds of them (no pastures) resulting in much improved steaks for the ruler, and the plan was to gather larger herds so the populace could eat better as well.
A rather smart general had figured out how to throw sticks more accurately than the initial barbarians in the village, and hence our Skirmisher's were born.
I'm still trying to figure out when a good time to build the initial worker/settler so sorry for the potential
there. Oh, and yah, since we didn't start with Mysticism, and Buddhism and Hinduism were founded fairly early on I didn't make it a priority. Hopefully when that worker does pop out we can improve our lands better. And yah, Sulla I thought for a few minutes on where I wanted to found the initial city, and probably still choose wrong.
I believe the second person receives 20 turns, and after that 10 but I'm ot sure.
I don't think there is necessarily a "best time" to build a worker/settler. Unlike civilization three, I feel that expertise is demonstrated in civilization four by skillfully developing the hand you're dealt and altering strategies to fit changing circumstances, rather than skillfully implementing a more formulaic ideal strategy.
In our case, I think I would have gone for workers earlier primarily because the research paths focused on worker capabilities. Additionally, while our starting city location has the potential to be developed into a quite effective city, particularly in regards to commerce, is not particularly powerful in its natural state. I do not believe any starting tiles have more than a combined three hammers/food. The only tile that we can get a total of five or more combined food/hammer/coins is the small lake to the West, which we cannot use right now because we do not have fishing.
As we are all new to the game, I do not offer this in an attempt to criticize, rather to analyze. I do not think the research choices made were inappropriate, nor do I think it is inherently wrong to delay a bit before producing settlers and workers, especially when one sees the need to explore to find a second city site, however I do not think that those two choices, combined with our starting city location, was optimal.
However, I also do not think we are necessarily in a bad position, as the city on the silk and the two additional silk resources, combined with the trade implications by having the city connected to both rivers, suggest that the city will be a commercial powerhouse when develops later in the game. We also have several units so we will be able to quickly exploreand access to a skirmisher, a powerful defensive unit for the early game. The only thing I think this means is that we have to carefully consider where to place the next city, so that we can have a city that is strong and production/food.
In our case, I think I would have gone for workers earlier primarily because the research paths focused on worker capabilities. Additionally, while our starting city location has the potential to be developed into a quite effective city, particularly in regards to commerce, is not particularly powerful in its natural state. I do not believe any starting tiles have more than a combined three hammers/food. The only tile that we can get a total of five or more combined food/hammer/coins is the small lake to the West, which we cannot use right now because we do not have fishing.
As we are all new to the game, I do not offer this in an attempt to criticize, rather to analyze. I do not think the research choices made were inappropriate, nor do I think it is inherently wrong to delay a bit before producing settlers and workers, especially when one sees the need to explore to find a second city site, however I do not think that those two choices, combined with our starting city location, was optimal.
However, I also do not think we are necessarily in a bad position, as the city on the silk and the two additional silk resources, combined with the trade implications by having the city connected to both rivers, suggest that the city will be a commercial powerhouse when develops later in the game. We also have several units so we will be able to quickly exploreand access to a skirmisher, a powerful defensive unit for the early game. The only thing I think this means is that we have to carefully consider where to place the next city, so that we can have a city that is strong and production/food.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,623
Ragnoff said:
lurker's comment:
I have to agree hear. If you have nearby fish then fishing is critical. Why learn about pastures if no cows. The list goes on and on.
Even what to build can be influenced by resources as some buildings speed up with things such as stone and marble.
Dwip
Warlord
- Joined
- May 5, 2003
- Messages
- 272
(Boy, Civfanatics is being REALLY slow today)
Er, yeah. Ok. Ignore me. Apparently along with relearning the interface for Civ 4, I need to relearn not to post when I haven't had my caffiene yet, too...
(Next stop, I relearn to read! See Dwip. See Dwip read. Read Dwip, read!)
On the plus side, I seem to be one of about two people with ATI cards the game just gets up and works for, so.
Er, yeah. Ok. Ignore me. Apparently along with relearning the interface for Civ 4, I need to relearn not to post when I haven't had my caffiene yet, too...
(Next stop, I relearn to read! See Dwip. See Dwip read. Read Dwip, read!)
On the plus side, I seem to be one of about two people with ATI cards the game just gets up and works for, so.
Just for grins (and i need the practice).
The infamous calendar(~tm) start. Holy hannah! I rolled a start with the same settings. Super lucky. Founded two religions (Hinduism, Judaism), closed off my AI neighbor from expansion with borders crossing a small continent i share with him (China), crushing one of his cities with culture, about to pop a great prophet. Built Stonehenge and Oracle. Presently building skirms, since i see him getting desperate. Two cites, about to found third. Date is 925 BC.
And all because of wet corn and wet rice.
The infamous calendar(~tm) start. Holy hannah! I rolled a start with the same settings. Super lucky. Founded two religions (Hinduism, Judaism), closed off my AI neighbor from expansion with borders crossing a small continent i share with him (China), crushing one of his cities with culture, about to pop a great prophet. Built Stonehenge and Oracle. Presently building skirms, since i see him getting desperate. Two cites, about to found third. Date is 925 BC.
And all because of wet corn and wet rice.
