My concern with space-based weaponry is implementation. Terrestrial-based systems can have icons, interface, etc. But where do we put satellite imaging capabilities? I suppose you could have something like having all your satellites represented by units based in your cities, then they have a mission option that allows them to view any part of the world. Clunky, but "representative" enough, I suppose.
Real 'Near Future': "Mechs","Super Tanks","Super Soldiers","Space Elevator",Etcetera
- Thread starter Wade.
- Start date
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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I agree, a much more advanced system for dealing with satellites, other than the simple "get Satellite tech see the world", would be useful.
My ideal for Satellite would be alll Satellite "Units" would be in a Box you could view in the Combat view. Each turn, each satellite unit you had would automatically perform its action either
1. Recon/Command and Control-give you a view of a random area/Combat bonus to units in that region
2. Orbital Combat-shoot down other Satellites [of civs you are at war with]/Intercept Nukes/Missiles
3. Civilian-Research/Commerce/Space Ship Production Bonuses
I wouldn't mind one more level of Combat Techs Units. With things like
Mechs (probably call them All Terrain Armored Vehicles or something..Tanks that get the defensive Terrain Bonus and Ignore move Costs) and
Advanced Infantry (Combine Marines+Mech Infantry.. for a unit with move 2, March, Amphibious, Raider I and +20% Attack in Hills, Jungles, and Forests)..
VTOL Fighter-Bomber from Helicopter and Artillery
Fusion Powered Floating Fortress- (No Oil/Uranium Requirement)
as long as they were a 'last tech' type thing.
Rusty Edge
Deity
Sure Dude! Because , like, everybody knows mechs are laser-proof & can only be countered by Jedi Knights and Ewoks with ropes and redwood trees, and there aren't even any Ewoks on this planet.
Rusty Edge
Deity
I'm all for more historical complexity in techs and units, etc.
However in the actual future years beyond the tech tree I don't mind how fanciful we get, or who gets the fanciful UUs. Like a lot of controversial game elements, what's the harm if it comes with an on/off switch.
Seriphyn
Chieftain
Uh, HELLO? What's all this "no sci fi stuff in civ". Bloomin' heck, we have the highly ridiculous SPACE RACE victory condition. Building a big colony ship to send to another star system that will take centuries to get there, and also having cyronics that will freeze the colonists (btw that technology isn't even invented yet) and they'll wake up when they get there? Excuse me? Sci-fi much? It's not just the space elevator!
Seriously though, add in new postmodern units, techs whatever. Just make the modern era more interesting since it's just a case of nothing more than just pressing "end turn" endlessly.
Seriously though, add in new postmodern units, techs whatever. Just make the modern era more interesting since it's just a case of nothing more than just pressing "end turn" endlessly.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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I REALLY agree on the Space Race Victory Condition. A 'Self-sustaining Mars Colony' would be more realistic, although not as much of a 'Win Condition'
The existing one could work, but it should require something like an 'Extra Solar Planets' world project before ANYONE could build Space Race Parts (must have somewhere to go). Make a "Space Station" project/units required/help for yourself to build parts. Make Apollo Program+Mars Bases World Projects that help production.
For me the question of new units comes down to what can redefine gameplay within the latter stages of the game. If we're just adding in stronger units that do similar things to the previous generation, I don't know if it's necessary. It also doesn't really capture the "revolutionary" aspect of some of these changes.
Many of the ones I've suggested follow the U.S. military's focus on speed of engagement and limiting the "tooth to tail" ratio. I'm not sure it's actually going to work in real life, but a bigger question is whether the changes actually make a significant difference in gameplay. Will parachuting tanks and artillery (which I think is cool) really enhance the player's ability to attack remote resources in an unpredictable way? Beyond what paratroopers can do? Perhaps if they got another movement point, but that may be unbalancing.
If you rely on satellites as your recon units, does 1. your enemy have the ability to shoot them down? And 2. what happens to fighters? Are they relegated to bombing runs (which bombers do better anyway) and interception/air superiority?
Similar considerations are there for stealth units. What reveals the units, and are they too unbalancing? How do they relate to satellites?
The floating fortresses is an interesting idea, although is there a significant difference between that and just piling up transports and carrier groups together? The U.S. was thinking about that, but mostly it was a question of whether it's cheaper to field these bases (and safe enough to do so) or just have bases in other countries. You can simulate that in Civ, but not easily.
In the end, the big change for me would come in speed and movement rather than power (although power is going to be a component). Can the new units move faster than preceding ones: to get troops into the field faster, to evade pursuit, and to run down pursuers? Can they operate independently of resources (no need for oil, for example)? Can they deploy to take advantage of strategic vulnerabilities (like when using paratroopers) and critically can they get away as well (hence the need for a light tank)? In terms of game balance, what can counter this other than having similar tech (cruise missiles as an independent, cheap, and fast moving one-off unit)?
Many of the ones I've suggested follow the U.S. military's focus on speed of engagement and limiting the "tooth to tail" ratio. I'm not sure it's actually going to work in real life, but a bigger question is whether the changes actually make a significant difference in gameplay. Will parachuting tanks and artillery (which I think is cool) really enhance the player's ability to attack remote resources in an unpredictable way? Beyond what paratroopers can do? Perhaps if they got another movement point, but that may be unbalancing.
If you rely on satellites as your recon units, does 1. your enemy have the ability to shoot them down? And 2. what happens to fighters? Are they relegated to bombing runs (which bombers do better anyway) and interception/air superiority?
Similar considerations are there for stealth units. What reveals the units, and are they too unbalancing? How do they relate to satellites?
The floating fortresses is an interesting idea, although is there a significant difference between that and just piling up transports and carrier groups together? The U.S. was thinking about that, but mostly it was a question of whether it's cheaper to field these bases (and safe enough to do so) or just have bases in other countries. You can simulate that in Civ, but not easily.
In the end, the big change for me would come in speed and movement rather than power (although power is going to be a component). Can the new units move faster than preceding ones: to get troops into the field faster, to evade pursuit, and to run down pursuers? Can they operate independently of resources (no need for oil, for example)? Can they deploy to take advantage of strategic vulnerabilities (like when using paratroopers) and critically can they get away as well (hence the need for a light tank)? In terms of game balance, what can counter this other than having similar tech (cruise missiles as an independent, cheap, and fast moving one-off unit)?
ac196nataku
Noob
As much as a I love Gundam, walking mechs truly are unpractical. Even in Gundam they realized that when they started making Mobile Armors...
50_dollar_bag
Imitation Louis Vuitton
How about making Future Tech have some kind of bonus to other than +1 health and happy. Kind of like how UN resolutions are implemented. You could choose from a list of things like:
+ 10% strength to all units
half-priced upgrade costs
+ 1 movement point for all units (or maybe just a few select units)
+10% unremovable defense bonus for all cities
a substitute for oil
You may be able to choose it only once or maybe multiple times for each future tech discovered
+ 10% strength to all units
half-priced upgrade costs
+ 1 movement point for all units (or maybe just a few select units)
+10% unremovable defense bonus for all cities
a substitute for oil
You may be able to choose it only once or maybe multiple times for each future tech discovered
Mewtarthio
Emperor
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I'd rather the list look more like:
- +2 XP for all units built
- +2 happiness in all cities
- +2 health in all cities
- +0.5 free specialists in all cities (research two to get one)
- etc
Basically, things that are easily repeatable.
But what are the ramifications? What does String Theory do for us? What are the prerequisites for Cold Fusion?
Rusty Edge
Deity
Gaius Octavius
Deity
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- 4,016
Spy satellites are easy enought to implement for the designers. Make them buildable units, but only 3-5 can exist per civ at a given time, like the missionary units.
They would only be visible when you zoom out to the world view, and they can be moved around "in orbit" from this view. The result is that you get a line of sight so many squares wide (e.g., 5 x 5) meaning you can see large swaths of your enemies' territory with just one remote satellite. Simple.
we need Giant Death Robots 
no. seriously, we don't need them in the main game but it is good that we will get them in scenarios and mods.
can't wait to see all the new possibilities to mod BTS. just look at the crazy scenarios! it's madness
no. seriously, we don't need them in the main game but it is good that we will get them in scenarios and mods.
can't wait to see all the new possibilities to mod BTS. just look at the crazy scenarios! it's madness
That's what I originally had in mind, but it's only half of what needs to be done. What are the countermeasures to satellites? Can other civs shoot down satellites? How would that be implemented? How do satellites relate to stealth? And out in the world view, can you actually manipulate objects?
I had originally thought that you could house satellites in a city, simply as a representational issue, but that makes those cities extra nice targets. Also, it doesn't necessarily make much sense that destroying a city automatically destroys your satellite capabilities.
Gaius Octavius
Deity
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You can't do anything about satellites in real life, unless you want to attach lasers to them a la "Star Wars" (the Reagan plan, not the movie) and shoot them down. Why should you be able to in the game?
BTW, in regard to the space race victory: the most ridiculous thing about it is that there are no planets orbiting Alpha Centauri. Where are they going to live when they get there? A Mars colony would be much better.
BTW, in regard to the space race victory: the most ridiculous thing about it is that there are no planets orbiting Alpha Centauri. Where are they going to live when they get there?
A Mars colony would be much better.You can't do anything about satellites in real life, unless you want to attach lasers to them a la "Star Wars" (the Reagan plan, not the movie) and shoot them down. Why should you be able to in the game?
BTW, in regard to the space race victory: the most ridiculous thing about it is that there are no planets orbiting Alpha Centauri. Where are they going to live when they get there?
No offense, but you haven't been paying attention to the news lately. China has been looking at cheap methods to counteract U.S. superiority in space-based intelligence (and others), and it shot down one of its own satellites using an Earth-based collider a couple months ago. The U.S. and the USSR have both done anti-satellite tests in the past, so there is ample precedent. Other methods have included sending fighters high up into the atmosphere to launch missiles at satellites, "painting" them to disrupt signals, etc. Modeling that in the game will be much more difficult.
