Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
iirc, they played two games like this... read all of the spoilers if you can find them
Robi's Rowdy Riding Roughnecks
- Thread starter Tubby Rower
- Start date
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
This thread has been less then rowdy recently 
Thats just not good enough
Since we are getting into the final stages of preparation if Wotan
would be so kind to post of few screenshots of the tactical situation for discussion
Thats just not good enough
Since we are getting into the final stages of preparation if Wotan
would be so kind to post of few screenshots of the tactical situation for discussion
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
Ok here is the latest pic Wotan was referring too... I believe that we have 12 MWs according to the Military screenshot and 11 galleys. I'm not sure where these are located and how many are within striking range. I'll check later if I get tired of working.
4 of the galleys in that picture are loaded with 2 MWs each. All Galleys but one is heading towards this area. Another 4 MWs are one turn or so away from two galleys just south of the pic. I am planning to move all Galleys so they can converge on the "sea" tile just north of the 2 loaded Galleys SE of SABER. From that tile they can move four tiles and land on the Gems mountain to strike at both Georgetown and Karabela the following turn.
Leaving two sleeping Galleys in the coastals will hopefully be regarded as "denial" units should SABER try to move there and not seen as a threat. At least that is my hope. In four turns we have Pike/MI and can add a few defense units to our SoD. 20 units should be reached in 6 or 7 turns from now. then they need to move to the jumpoff point so another 4 maybe 5 turns and we are in business.
Leaving two sleeping Galleys in the coastals will hopefully be regarded as "denial" units should SABER try to move there and not seen as a threat. At least that is my hope. In four turns we have Pike/MI and can add a few defense units to our SoD. 20 units should be reached in 6 or 7 turns from now. then they need to move to the jumpoff point so another 4 maybe 5 turns and we are in business.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
do we have any plans to scout the area first? What if they have the coastals blocked with curraghs?
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
which area north or south?
No on northern front. The last discussion on the issue was to put a SoD in the south to take out their centre fast. landing in the north would require trekking for too many turns before reaching the important targets.
And yes, scouting will happen but only by a Galley moving back and forth on turns prior to the attack. We dont want to send a second ship past their coastline. that would give away the fact we have successfully moved several ships past the lookout Curragh.
And yes, scouting will happen but only by a Galley moving back and forth on turns prior to the attack. We dont want to send a second ship past their coastline. that would give away the fact we have successfully moved several ships past the lookout Curragh.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
I admit the past two weeks i haven't been keeping track of everything but the last i remember it was decided to focus on the south but keep the north.
I believe it would be a mistake to not open up a northern front.
Firstly we are want the war to be as quick as possible, by coming from two opposite directions reduces the time as we can cover twice the distance.
Secondly it forces Saber into splitting their focus, with just a single stack all their forces head towards it and will slow progress down. By having two fronts they can't stop one stack without letting the second stack travel freely.
Thirdly, the psychological impact of having a second stack lob up on the oppsite end of the island when your having enough trouble dealing with the first one is a devastating blow. It will fill them with dread and reduce the will to fight.
Fourthy, it maximises the our numerical advantage and the characteristics of our MW's which are vulnerable in close quarters combat but nearly unstoppable in open terrain.
Fifthly, even if the cities in the north are not as important they are still there and the quickest way to get rid of them is by having troops up there to begin with. Also it denies Saber establishing a fall back position as they would have nothing to fall back to.
Sixthly, read the first five arguments again carefully.
I believe it would be a mistake to not open up a northern front.
Firstly we are want the war to be as quick as possible, by coming from two opposite directions reduces the time as we can cover twice the distance.
Secondly it forces Saber into splitting their focus, with just a single stack all their forces head towards it and will slow progress down. By having two fronts they can't stop one stack without letting the second stack travel freely.
Thirdly, the psychological impact of having a second stack lob up on the oppsite end of the island when your having enough trouble dealing with the first one is a devastating blow. It will fill them with dread and reduce the will to fight.
Fourthy, it maximises the our numerical advantage and the characteristics of our MW's which are vulnerable in close quarters combat but nearly unstoppable in open terrain.
Fifthly, even if the cities in the north are not as important they are still there and the quickest way to get rid of them is by having troops up there to begin with. Also it denies Saber establishing a fall back position as they would have nothing to fall back to.
Sixthly, read the first five arguments again carefully.
Tubby Rower
Chronic Slacker
I thought that we were going to have a force come in from the north first then land the southern force a couple turns later. That might not be a possibility now....
So what is the possibility of having 2-3 galleys head to their northern side (from our SW)?
So what is the possibility of having 2-3 galleys head to their northern side (from our SW)?
To land first in the north and then come in later in the south. Would that really work against human opposition. Will they immediately dispatch their defenses north and leave the core weakened? Wouldn't it more likely make them change to a warfooting giving every location a couple of turns of producing military before we land with our main forces? maybe even position units on coastal tiles like the mountains to deny them to us?
Also taking out 4-6 units from the SoD will leave it with 14-16 units. with one or two pikes included that will leave 12-15 MWs while committing a third of that number to act as decoys in the north. An area with little production value to SABER. If I were them I would be jubilant we divide our forces. With 12-15 MWs and no real grasp of what they might have defending their core it is impossible to say whether we will be able to take out the core. But adding the decoys to the stack will definitely make it possible for us to fan out in two or three directions after establishing our bridgehead. If they have a core similar to ours there should be roughly 6-7 productive towns in the core, say we lose 1 MW in each attack and wound another 2, we could possibly take out the whole core with the full SoD. With a group moving in the north we will be a couple of productive town short. So are we really willing to divide the forces and exchange a couple of core towns for a couple of low value northern towns?
the passage from SW to their north is also longer and takes four or maybe even five turns to sail. Longer to reinforce and if we do not reinforce we will soon have a few scattered units with no real purpose. They only need to lose one or two MWs to make it worthless as an offensive tool.
Robi, addressing each bullet in turn.
One, would agree on the two pronged attack if the two routes had equal value for teh defenders. Now the core is worth 90% of SABER.
Two, I would ignore the northern forces if I were SABER. The war is lost or won by controlling the core.
Three, Losing their production capacity is what would fill them with fear not losing territory. Think Russia in WW2.
Four, Our numerical advantage is best used in massing units to take out their core ASAP. Not by destroying perimeter towns. Each production town we take out reduce their defensive capabilities so much more than losing northern towns. If we would act to protect our core in case of an attack what suggest SABER will act like headless chickens and run chasing a small party in the north? A single town with 2 Spear might finish off the offensive capability of the detachment in the north leaving the wounded survivors with no chance to recover. The northern decoys risk becoming a sacrifice without real benefits.
Five, yes to a point, might I suggest we do as I think we talked about at the end of the last discussion we had on this topic. After having shipped off the strike force we continue building MWs and galleys as planned. The idea was to gather a group in the area of LF and ship them to the northern coast the help mop up the island. I think I remember this as the final idea in the last discussion.
And my final words is actually something Graf von Moltke once said about military planning. "Planning is good but we have yet to experience a plan that actually survived contact with the enemy"
Also taking out 4-6 units from the SoD will leave it with 14-16 units. with one or two pikes included that will leave 12-15 MWs while committing a third of that number to act as decoys in the north. An area with little production value to SABER. If I were them I would be jubilant we divide our forces. With 12-15 MWs and no real grasp of what they might have defending their core it is impossible to say whether we will be able to take out the core. But adding the decoys to the stack will definitely make it possible for us to fan out in two or three directions after establishing our bridgehead. If they have a core similar to ours there should be roughly 6-7 productive towns in the core, say we lose 1 MW in each attack and wound another 2, we could possibly take out the whole core with the full SoD. With a group moving in the north we will be a couple of productive town short. So are we really willing to divide the forces and exchange a couple of core towns for a couple of low value northern towns?
the passage from SW to their north is also longer and takes four or maybe even five turns to sail. Longer to reinforce and if we do not reinforce we will soon have a few scattered units with no real purpose. They only need to lose one or two MWs to make it worthless as an offensive tool.
Robi, addressing each bullet in turn.
One, would agree on the two pronged attack if the two routes had equal value for teh defenders. Now the core is worth 90% of SABER.
Two, I would ignore the northern forces if I were SABER. The war is lost or won by controlling the core.
Three, Losing their production capacity is what would fill them with fear not losing territory. Think Russia in WW2.
Four, Our numerical advantage is best used in massing units to take out their core ASAP. Not by destroying perimeter towns. Each production town we take out reduce their defensive capabilities so much more than losing northern towns. If we would act to protect our core in case of an attack what suggest SABER will act like headless chickens and run chasing a small party in the north? A single town with 2 Spear might finish off the offensive capability of the detachment in the north leaving the wounded survivors with no chance to recover. The northern decoys risk becoming a sacrifice without real benefits.
Five, yes to a point, might I suggest we do as I think we talked about at the end of the last discussion we had on this topic. After having shipped off the strike force we continue building MWs and galleys as planned. The idea was to gather a group in the area of LF and ship them to the northern coast the help mop up the island. I think I remember this as the final idea in the last discussion.
And my final words is actually something Graf von Moltke once said about military planning. "Planning is good but we have yet to experience a plan that actually survived contact with the enemy"
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
If they are happy to leave the troops in the north alone then fantastic, that would mean we can fan out the northern forces and be taking cities out left right and centre. If thats the case then we can be putting down cities before the war is even finished with Saber. And don't forget every turn we are at war is that much more WW, which means slower research.
Going in with one large stack might well be the textbook move, but in my opinion textbooks are for those who are to lazy to use their imagination. We are not playing against bunnies so we need to do different things to wrong foot them, take some risks, do the unexpected.
The key to the war is speed, we want every Saber city gone as soon as possible so we can get on with populating the island and setting ourselves up for the council invasion.
Going in with one large stack might well be the textbook move, but in my opinion textbooks are for those who are to lazy to use their imagination. We are not playing against bunnies so we need to do different things to wrong foot them, take some risks, do the unexpected.
The key to the war is speed, we want every Saber city gone as soon as possible so we can get on with populating the island and setting ourselves up for the council invasion.
I disagree, i doubt they will have 'that' many troops so they will automatically switch to unit builds in the core, the units will be finished around the time our main force reach the middle thus they'll just leave the cities in the north and defend the core. we'll just have to wait another 5 or so turns for the units to arrive and they will have a load more troops by then.
Kickbooti
Ecclesia Militans
What about tasking initial MW reinforcments for a northern raiding force?
If our own SoD meets resistance greater than we anticipate then some MW's raising cane and pillaging would stop the north from growing too quickly (I like the ideas of catching about 12 slaves to slow their development). At the very least would keep them engaged while we build MI, cats and Pikes to continue in the core.
And if the core falls all the more quickly, then the northern force could gain some experience points.
If our own SoD meets resistance greater than we anticipate then some MW's raising cane and pillaging would stop the north from growing too quickly (I like the ideas of catching about 12 slaves to slow their development). At the very least would keep them engaged while we build MI, cats and Pikes to continue in the core.
And if the core falls all the more quickly, then the northern force could gain some experience points.
This is what I would also advocate us doing. We will build roughly 2 MWs each turn so it is a matter of half a doxen turns or so later.
I like what Robi's suggesting if it's feasible. If they don't have engineering it would wreak massive havoc for a long time even with minimal forces. If it can't be done then I understand. Scouting their coastline with the curragh will give us great intel.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
I suggested from the begining that the northern attack starts 5-10 turns after the southern one, that way all the troops that were in the north would be half way down and therefore in no mans land between the 2 fronts.
Robi D
Minister of (Dis)Order
don't know. Besides i had fun discussing my point of view
Can't really discuss MMing with you since i am hopeless at that
