RtW: Add-On Pack 3 BETA for 3.17

[Fagan]

That fix is not a change from AOP2. It's a change from AOP3-Beta3.

Ok Does that mean that the new beta soon released will still have the problem of AI unit production?

 

[Fagan]

About the new units I noticed few things. In general I enjoyed the change but for few points I think it's not that ok :

- The first two Japan bomber are ridiculously weak, strength of 5 and 3. Well the G4M has chance to escape from an interception, 40%. Not sure what it worth. But the KI-32 has nothing like that, if it becomes the second Japan bomber, it will need some improvement.

- The Crusader III is ridiculously strong. It is from far the strongest fast tank with 4 moves and strength 24. It's not only too strong from a gameplay point of view, but it's weird when compared for example to a similar German tank Panzer IV. Their speed was quite the same on road and off road and the Crusader III is weaker on everything else, from armor protection to guns. Moreover It didn't perform well against German units. It's speed should be lower to 3.

- British advanced infantry are faster, stronger and are faster to produce than German infantry. Let say the faster production comes from foreign country reinforcement and help a little for weaker production potential but they should be a little weaker and not faster. 2 moves and strength 18 with the 2 nice free promotions (from the leader characteristics) compared with 20 for Germans with one weaker free promotion should be fine.

- The M2 is just too fast with 5 moves, it's just too much from a gameplay point of view (in fact move 4 is already too much but well that's another point). I agree USA tanks was a bit faster but moves of 5 is just weird for the game. In one move such tank can go through a whole foreign country without any fight. Not to mention that 5 attacks is A LOT.

- A last remark is about the speed of the earth units, well it can work like that but I think it's not that cool for the gameplay. The problem is that in the game there is no interception, so too many moves break stuff too much and is unrealistic. In fact ships have the same problem and increased but reduce their number of move will not work well. The current balance is to 3 when 2 should be the fast units and 3 the very rare fastest units (light tanks weak enough).

 

[Dale]

Does this mean that if I conquer Poland ( which I did ion my '39 scenario that I can't build my air and land force there?

No, Poland starts with Goods Factories, and they are not destroyed by conquest. So you will be able to build factories there.

Can I switch it off for some time untill I reach the time for war with the USSR and than turn it back on?

Thanks

Yes, if you change an option whilst in-game in GlobalDefinesAlt.xml just play one more turn and it becomes active.

 

[Dale]

Ok Does that mean that the new beta soon released will still have the problem of AI unit production?

No. That was answered a couple of pages ago.

And's it's not a new beta, it's RtW-UE which is released. Sticky in the forum.

 

[Fagan]

Ok very cool, thanks to point it I hadn't see the release, downloading it. I regret few details on the new units that I feel weird. Well Chamboozer will perhaps provide some explanation about this.

 

[Aleenik]

About the new units I noticed few things. In general I enjoyed the change but for few points I think it's not that ok :

- The first two Japan bomber are ridiculously weak, strength of 5 and 3. Well the G4M has chance to escape from an interception, 40%. Not sure what it worth. But the KI-32 has nothing like that, if it becomes the second Japan bomber, it will need some improvement.

- The Crusader III is ridiculously strong. It is from far the strongest fast tank with 4 moves and strength 24. It's not only too strong from a gameplay point of view, but it's weird when compared for example to a similar German tank Panzer IV. Their speed was quite the same on road and off road and the Crusader III is weaker on everything else, from armor protection to guns. Moreover It didn't perform well against German units. It's speed should be lower to 3.

- British advanced infantry are faster, stronger and are faster to produce than German infantry. Let say the faster production comes from foreign country reinforcement and help a little for weaker production potential but they should be a little weaker and not faster. 2 moves and strength 18 with the 2 nice free promotions (from the leader characteristics) compared with 20 for Germans with one weaker free promotion should be fine.

- The M2 is just too fast with 5 moves, it's just too much from a gameplay point of view (in fact move 4 is already too much but well that's another point). I agree USA tanks was a bit faster but moves of 5 is just weird for the game. In one move such tank can go through a whole foreign country without any fight. Not to mention that 5 attacks is A LOT.

- A last remark is about the speed of the earth units, well it can work like that but I think it's not that cool for the gameplay. The problem is that in the game there is no interception, so too many moves break stuff too much and is unrealistic. In fact ships have the same problem and increased but reduce their number of move will not work well. The current balance is to 3 when 2 should be the fast units and 3 the very rare fastest units (light tanks weak enough).

-I would like to add I think Japanise units should be stronger then 5....at least in my game on Diety Japan with its weak units is at war with china..but has failed to invade at all yet..and its 1939...
-Yes British Troops I think are too strong..I outproduce the germans and can deffend France awesomly....as a matter of fact France neverlost 1 city becuz i put all my land troops in france with city deffender promotions..and i guess it helped that germany hasnt sent their men into france even though theyve been at war with em for a while..and are at war with the lowlands..

-Is it just me or is the AI ridiciously stupid, and non aggresive..unwilling to attack


-1 more note..Aircraft are RIDICIOUSLY cheap to produce..i spam aircraft and infantry and there I go the game is won just like that..aircraft wipe out everything


-and most importantly..it would be nice to have a way to turn Bitter Winter off..it makes the game take forever in between turns..or at least it seems to because it takes the longest in between turns when its making a lot of Bitter Winter tiles

 

[Delm]

Thanks for the quick reply

1. I agree with the previous statements on the japanese bombers, the 2nd bomber is actually weaker than the first? And the third bomber has much shorter range than the 2nd? If it's suppose to be like that perhaps the player could have the option to keep building the 2nd bomber as well as the 3rd once the required tech has been acquired?

2. My anti-air guns are acting weirdly too; "You anti-air gun has attacked an enemy japanese advanced infantery"... fighters seem to do the same thing when set on intercept.

3. During diplomacy screen some off the things seem off, like in open play and they want you to change to fascist or something and they will say "religious war" is so unpleasant and things like that (small details of course)...

 

[Fagan]

You aren't playing the last version, there's a sticky thread with the Ultimate Edition, try this one. It has much better units and hopefully the problem of passivity is fixed in this release.

I have yet to try this new version but if you want a tough game with one of the main country in the Europe map, try URSS from Europe 39 deity level.

EDIT: URSS but in historical mode, it's important because it limits your options.

 

[Fagan]

1. I agree with the previous statements on the japanese bombers, the 2nd bomber is actually weaker than the first? And the third bomber has much shorter range than the 2nd? If it's suppose to be like that perhaps the player could have the option to keep building the 2nd bomber as well as the 3rd once the required tech has been acquired?

Well about the first and second bomber as they are in the UE in fact the second bomber has a special 40% chance to escape from interception.

My comment was because I believed that Chamboozer has requested to exchange the 1st and second japan bomber but the EU keeps it as they was in beta3.

I agree for your comments about 2nd and third bomber but well it's a limit of the mod. If I had to decide I would exchange 2nd and third bomber... Perhaps it's what Chamboozer requested.

2. My anti-air guns are acting weirdly too; "You anti-air gun has attacked an enemy japanese advanced infantery"... fighters seem to do the same thing when set on intercept.

Well in fact it's on purpose, those guns was also used against infantry and yes plane fighters are also doing that.

 

[Omathaar]

I haven't played UE yet either, but just in case AI passivity is still a problem, we can always tweak the difficulty settings. If you give the AI *hugely* superior production on harder difficulties, then even a frustratingly dumb AI will be able to pump out vast numbers of units, and they may be more aggressive just because they feel they can afford to be. The AI's stupid strategy may be canceled out by sheer brute force, making for a more realistic challenge

 

[Delm]

Well in fact it's on purpose, those guns was also used against infantry and yes plane fighters are also doing that.

I wasn't sure if this was on purpose or not, but I guess it kinda make sense but it seems like the range is unlimited on the Anti-air guns?

And yes I'm playing Beta 3, I didn't know there was a UE released

 

[Fagan]

I haven't played UE yet either, but just in case AI passivity is still a problem, we can always tweak the difficulty settings. If you give the AI *hugely* superior production on harder difficulties, then even a frustratingly dumb AI will be able to pump out vast numbers of units, and they may be more aggressive just because they feel they can afford to be. The AI's stupid strategy may be canceled out by sheer brute force, making for a more realistic challenge

You are right but if it's like in beta it will require to edit one file or two. For example if you play against the Axe the solution could be to raise military production increase from fascism.

 

[Fagan]

I wasn't sure if this was on purpose or not, but I guess it kinda make sense but it seems like the range is unlimited on the Anti-air guns?

And yes I'm playing Beta 3, I didn't know there was a UE released

I agree with you on that point about Anti-air range, it isn't clear for me too but I didn't investigate this.

Don't worry about UE it was released today so I doubt anybody has yet played a full game with it or just did it.

 

[Dale]

2. My anti-air guns are acting weirdly too; "You anti-air gun has attacked an enemy japanese advanced infantery"... fighters seem to do the same thing when set on intercept.

That's "Active Defense". Any air or anti-air unit on intercept will automatically strafe ground units that approach their base.

This occurs at the beginning of a turn, and the unit must be in intercept mode.

 

[Dale]

My comment was because I believed that Chamboozer has requested to exchange the 1st and second japan bomber but the EU keeps it as they was in beta3.

His comment was to swap the graphics for the two bombers. The G4M graphic was showing on the Ki-32.

 

[Chamboozer]

His comment was to swap the graphics for the two bombers. The G4M graphic was showing on the Ki-32.

Did you just misunderstand me again? You had the graphics wrong, yes, but I also wanted the G4M to be Improved Bomber and the Ki-32 to be the basic bomber, because it would be more accurate to their Abilities and the time they were used. G4M was introduced in '42 I think, Ki-32 was introduced before 36. Possibly in '32, hence the name. I'm not sure on the exact dates.

 

[Fagan]

He he so I had understand well after all.

Chamboozer do you realize then that second Japan bomber will be extremely weak? Also could you explain me some units choices I don't understand?

The questions (I repeat most from a post above) :

- The Crusader III is ridiculously strong. It is from far the strongest fast tank with 4 moves and strength 24. It's not only too strong from a gameplay point of view, but it's weird when compared for example to a similar German tank Panzer IV. Their speed was quite the same on road and off road and the Crusader III is weaker on everything else, from armor protection to guns. Moreover It didn't perform well against German units. It's speed should be lower to 3.

- The Crusader III has the desert free promotion, that is weird, the German Tanks and infantry should get them. Why? Because Allies started perform well in desert war only when German started have heavy problem of resources (oil, replacements) or later when allies just overload them with numbers. Otherwise German perform very well in desert.

- British advanced infantry are faster, stronger and are faster to produce than German infantry. Let say the faster production comes from foreign country reinforcement and help a little for weaker production potential but they should be a little weaker and not faster. 2 moves and strength 18 with the 2 nice free promotions (from the leader characteristics) compared with 20 for Germans with one weaker free promotion should be fine.

- The M2 is just too fast with 5 moves, it's just too much from a gameplay point of view (in fact move 4 is already too much but well that's another point). I agree USA tanks was a bit faster but moves of 5 is just weird for the game. In one move such tank can go through a whole foreign country without any fight. Not to mention that 5 attacks is A LOT.

- A last remark is about the speed of the earth units, well it can work like that but I think it's not that cool for the gameplay. The problem is that in the game there is no interception, so too many moves break stuff too much and is unrealistic. In fact ships have the same problem and increased but reduce their number of move will not work well. The current balance is to 3 when 2 should be the fast units and 3 the very rare fastest units (light tanks weak enough).

 

[Dale]

Did you just misunderstand me again? You had the graphics wrong, yes, but I also wanted the G4M to be Improved Bomber and the Ki-32 to be the basic bomber, because it would be more accurate to their Abilities and the time they were used. G4M was introduced in '42 I think, Ki-32 was introduced before 36. Possibly in '32, hence the name. I'm not sure on the exact dates.

No I didn't misunderstand you. The FIRST time you said swap the planes which I did (and forgot to swap the graphics) and the SECOND time you said swap the graphics, which is done.

Check the . .. .. .. .ing game before going off!

 

[Fanaza]

Dale are you going to do something about the global warming? You just ignored my argument about why it shouldn't be in this mod.

 

[Dale]

Dale are you going to do something about the global warming? You just ignored my argument about why it shouldn't be in this mod.

No nothing's happening to global warming, and no I didn't ignore your argument.

Wierd weather patterns (ie: Eastern Europe's wildest winters ever and the Sahara's hotest summers ever) occured during this time. Besides, don't nuke so much.