SCENARIO: American Civil War - C3C only

[Misfit_travel]

I have new artwork for Militia and Garrison units. I definitely like the new Militia look better, the Garrison's I'm not quite as sold on, but at least they are visually different enough that its dead obvious to a player they are different units.

I've attached animated GIFs of the new artwork. You'll have to use your imagination in thinking of them in the appropriate blue and grey colours.

Regards
Misfit

 

[Misfit_travel]

Here is the new Garrison unit.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Second CSA turn sent in. The obnoxious Union has taken Cape Girardeau (I'd like the USA better without all mispronounced French in toponyms!), and in retaliation the guys in grey has burned Forts Filmore and Gibson to the ground.

The Plague isn't affect the South much yet, but those oversized crows circling above Washington, DC, sure looks intimidating! Only reason the Union capital hasn't fallen yet, honest!

 

[The Last Conformist]

The new Garrison looks like a Caroline infantryman ...

It's not bad, but could be better; doesn't really look ACW-ish to me.

The new Militia also looks a bit 1700s, but I kind of like it. I say use it, unless someone stumbles at something absolutely fantastic.

I must also again say that the new cavalry looks really good!

 

[dreadknought]

Originally posted by eric_A


Dreadnought:

I'll have a go at PBEM with you. My V3.9 game with
Misfit is very rapidly coming to an end. I'll download the
latest beta files later today. You can contact me at:
eric@eaelec.com

That sounds good Ill be in touch later this evening.

 

[dreadknought]

Originally posted by Misfit_travel
Sheez, I'm scaring the PBEM players away. First Whizkid, now Eric_A. Checkout the PBEM thread for ACW C3C for the action in those v3.91 games here

If you are going to play PBEM with a beta release, please post game updates in this thread. Please only post strategic / game play functionality type reports (ie not historical embellishments). As the beta is not fully playtested we are looking for game balance / bug issues. I don't want to get in trouble with the moderators of Civfanatics.

If you want help with the setup of a beta PBEM game, let me know.

Misfit

If we get one going Ill post any issues-thoughts- here along with the tech updates of my own union game but it will tonite before I can get back going....ditto for sunday....dread

 

[Misfit_travel]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
The new Garrison looks like a Caroline infantryman ...

It's not bad, but could be better; doesn't really look ACW-ish to me.

The new Militia also looks a bit 1700s, but I kind of like it. I say use it, unless someone stumbles at something absolutely fantastic.

I must also again say that the new cavalry looks really good!

Yeah, but the current militia doesn't look at all ACWish to me. This is a step in the right direction I think. (Wait till you see it in game colours, it blends better).

Misfit

 

[Misfit_travel]

Please see the attached screenshot. With the changes we are making in beta3, we will remove the offensive bombard capability of Division units.

Thus, this type of road denial bombardment strategy will no longer be possible. (In my opinion this is not a bad thing since the AI would never make this type of bombard in the first place).

Unfortunately for me, its a favourite tactics of mine in PBEM and AI games because it denies my opponent the mobility afforded by the roads. I get 1 turn more warning that an attack is coming (and can prepare appropriately).

BTW, The Last Conformist, you're entire East Kentucky force was wiped out near Lincoln. Seems it didn't think it would run into two divisions of troops coming down from Louisville. (heh, heh, not playing against the AI anymore my friend)......

Misfit

 

[dreadknought]

Oh. one other thought I had is that maybe we can raise the (steal tech) cost for beta 3 some to make it a harder choice to risk money doing it or rush a unit. I like to see a chance for enough of a loss to make people sweat it a little. This will add a bit more thought in the human one-on-ones also I think.

 

[Misfit_travel]

Stealing cost escalates pretty quickly now. The first try is something like 400 gold (at the highest probability of being caught). Then it jumps about 200 gold per attempt.

One thing I could do is to make both sides spys at regular ability rather than veteran. That would make attempts riskier and more expensive, but it would effect ALL spy missions.

Misfit

 

[Klyden]

Good deal on the plague. I lost a big coastal artillery unit that I will never be able to replace (along with some other units).

This is a wrap on my Beta 1 playtest as the CSA.

The Feds did drop a division off next to Wilmington and dealing with it was tough (managed to shell it enough that the AI did not attack and instead tried to move around). The one unintended effect of the coastal battery is that it is lethal and that is what I used to finish off the division.. not a ground unit. I don't know what can be done about that, as you need the lethality against ships or they can just keep attacking, even at 1 bubble. I did not have anything in the area that I could attack the unit with to finish it off, but had enough milita to follow it around and if it tried to attack something, chances are it would have died. Pensacola remains the favorite target practice spot for the Union navy. They have also been shelling Norfolk, but I moved in extra artillery batteries and they are slowly loosing ships.

The Richmond to the north area is seeing increasing pressure from the Union forces around Washington. They will move in the newer rifle units, my artillery chews on them a bit and they withdraw. They have launched some attacks and I have taken some losses and overall, my lines are thin, but holding. Richmond just completed a rifle division that should help the army I have in the area. The New England milita has also put in an appearance as well to help with the attack (lost a vet rifle unit to the Elite New Yorkers defending a hill in CSA territory).

A lot of my early rampage in the north is done and the Union is starting to look at taking some PC's back. In Michigan and Northern Indiana, the AI has counter attacks going that I won't be able to stop.

I launched a 2 division attack on Louisville with most of my river fleet and some artillery and managed to take it. The Kansas City area is also under my control now, but things are going slowly in this area. The Union 9-13 rifle units are tough and you have to chew them down or face taking losses.

Des Moines is safe after 3 of my better irregulars died trying to take it. (They had only a milita with one hp left, so it went to the wire). A mass attack on Madison caused it to fall, but I lost more irregulars and the rest of the pop centers up there are pretty much too tough for me to tackle.

I stopped at Turn 39. Science is picking up a bit over the slow start, taking me about 6 turns to research something. I am running 50 percent science, 10 percent lux and have around 35-50 gold left a turn. Total income was 1565.

On the Irregular front, I noticed I can build them in places in some of the North Carolina area, so I am not sure where you intended them to be built, but if it is outside of the Missouri-Arkansas area, there is an issue.

For head to head games, I think blowing up the roads is going to be an issue. They take a long time to rebuild in the game, so it is even more effective than usual. I bring this up, because shelling them is obviously not the only way to get rid of them.

If you want me to start another game as the CSA with the latest version, I would be glad to. I have enjoyed the scenario a lot.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Misfit_travel

BTW, The Last Conformist, you're entire East Kentucky force was wiped out near Lincoln. Seems it didn't think it would run into two divisions of troops coming down from Louisville. (heh, heh, not playing against the AI anymore my friend)......

Annoying, isn't it?

Re: That road denial trick, I've never found much use for it in ACW (you frequently want the AI to storm your position), but can indeed be neat. Unfortunately, it's another of those things the AI never does. But you'll just have to bring along real arty units.

 

[Misfit_travel]

Originally posted by Klyden
Good deal on the plague. I lost a big coastal artillery unit that I will never be able to replace (along with some other units).

<snip>

On the Irregular front, I noticed I can build them in places in some of the North Carolina area, so I am not sure where you intended them to be built, but if it is outside of the Missouri-Arkansas area, there is an issue.

For head to head games, I think blowing up the roads is going to be an issue. They take a long time to rebuild in the game, so it is even more effective than usual. I bring this up, because shelling them is obviously not the only way to get rid of them.

<snip>

DISEASE:

I've been experimenting with beta 3 setting and disease. After some testing, I think that a strength setting of 1 for plains, grassland, hill and forest, and 2 for flood plain / marsh gets the job done nicely. Disease appears to predominatly hit the largest cities, but not more than 3-5 cities a turn.

I think that will work quite nicely at limiting city sizes without artificially penalizing a player by losing critical units. (Kudos to dreadknought for the good idea).

BUILDING IRREGULARS OUTSIDE MISSOURI / ARKANSAS

The way we limit where irregulars / guerillas are built is by assigning a resource (in this case Rubber) on the tile square for the cities in Missouri and Arkansas. Then we make Rubber a prerequisite for building an irregular / guerilla unit. Poof, you can only build them were we want.

This breaks down if the player ever manages to connect, via road, any of the cities in Missouri to the rest of his map. The easiest way to do this is by taking St. Louis and not destroying any roads.

Now you have a road link to the resource and any connected city can build the unit type.

Unfortunately, there is no way (that I can think of) to prevent this situation from happening in the game. The good news is it takes a long time for the circumstances to happen, so by that point irregulars aren't a game breaking unit anymore.

BLOWING UP & FIXING ROADS

I'd like to point out that although it takes a long time for a SINGLE engineer or slave to build a road, it does not take that much time for a BUNCH of slaves/engineers to fix a road. (That's a hint for scenario players). Don't think in terms of single units, if you really want something done, throw a bunch of units at it and you'll have it finished in no time.

I'm particularly good at this type of gameplay. In playtesting the CSA, by the end of 1862 I probably have a good 50-80 slaves running around doing irrigation (1st priority), mining (2nd priority) and the selected road construction (3rd priority for troop movement).

For example, in the PBEM game I'm playing against Eric_A, I cut the roads north from Clarkson to Evansville (initially to restrict Union movement southwards). After securing Evansville (and being sure Eric_A couldn't take it back), I moved 5 slaves onto the destroyed road tile. It took me 8 turns to rebuild it.

So.... If you REALLY want to do it, you can get it done, but it requires significant resource investment. I think that's a perfectly acceptable strategy for those players who are more build oriented.

Regards
Misfit

 

[Misfit_travel]

Eric_A's feedback got me thinking about how to minimize map distortion, but address our long standing problem of allowing some naval builds on the Mississippi.

I did some experimentation and found it takes 3 continuous ocean squares to create a sufficient body of water for the game to allow naval builds in adjacent cities.

Below is a screen shot showing the existing map around St. Louis., the second image is the minimum effected terrain needed to create naval builds. The third image is the two shots merged on top of each other so you can see which terrain will be lost to coast / sea squares.

The net effect of this change would be to allow full naval production in Quincy & St. Louis, and limited naval production in Jefferson City. (Jefferson City can only build transports because it doesn't have access to iron, which is needed for the combat naval units).

I'd like to suggest that this change be incorporated into beta 3 for game play testing. I believe it adds enough options to the game with a small distortion to the map. I'd consider it a fair tradeoff.

Let me know what you think.

Misfit

edit: The net effect of this is to allow two Union cities to build any kind of naval vessel, and allow 1 CSA city to do so (New Orleans). Jefferson City's transport build capability might be an interesting game play experience but it would take a HUGE effort to build a naval unit there. (Although a naval invasion bypassing St. Louis does have some interesting strategic game play possibilities).

 

[Misfit_travel]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist


Re: That road denial trick, I've never found much use for it in ACW (you frequently want the AI to storm your position), but can indeed be neat. Unfortunately, it's another of those things the AI never does. But you'll just have to bring along real arty units.

Then its probably just as well that we are making it much harder on the human player to execute that trick.

Misfit

 

[Misfit_travel]

Originally posted by Klyden


If you want me to start another game as the CSA with the latest version, I would be glad to. I have enjoyed the scenario a lot.

Klyden:

I've appreciated your feedback a lot. I'd be thrilled if you would continue testing for us.

Beta 2 tones down the plague setting, but I suspect that beta 3 will be a better use of your time.

I will likely need until Sunday to get it ready for everyone.

Regards
Misfit

 

[eric_A]

T. L. Conformist:
If you need advice, contact me, I have the wisdom
and the bruises to prove it after my game against Misfit.
My Email - eric@eaelec.com

Misfit:
I would be glad to try it again in the future, as far as
the current game goes I have just made too many mistakes
to redeem the situation.

 

[Misfit_travel]

Eric_A:

The Last Conformist will give me a run for my money. He came up with many of the strategies currently used in the scenario (not to mention some of the better cheats). Against you and Whizkid I had superior game knowledge (and ACW campaign experience). I won't have that advantage against TLC.

I would gladly play another PBEM with you. Your naval tactics are going to scare the crap out some of the other players. (Fair warning to all - Eric_A is VERY effective in utilization of naval transports).

One tactic you didn't use, but I'll offer for future games. Artillery bombardment damages the strongest unit in a stack. Each successive artillery bombard will always damage the unit with the MOST hit points / strongest defense value left in the stack. Thus as long as you have enough units in the stack, you can attack any fortified point and get away without losing a unit.

If you apply that knowledge to the Union blockade of New Orleans or Charleston, you can figure out a way to blow the crap out of the CSA ports without losing a ship to the coastal batteries. (Your sure to have quite a bit of damage done, but you can REPAIR damage). It is theoretically possible to lose a ship to an elite coastal gun if the ship only has 4 HPs (since this is the MAX damage one of those guns can do), but its pretty unlikely.

Lest people think I give away too much, the way to counter this Union tactic is to have more coastal batteries in place than the Union thinks you do. (That's why some coastal batteries are MOBILE and those blockade runners are useful to run, bombard, run away).

ONLY coastal guns and light coastal guns have LETHAL sea bombardment, so if you are going to use this tactic, soften the target up with all the other artillery units first, and finish them off with the coastal batteries.

Heh, heh, have fun!

Pick your side. How about another game using V4.0 beta 3?

Regards
Misfit

 

[Klyden]

I like the river change to allow naval units to be built in St. Louis and Quincy. The Union will need a strong fleet to help with river operations (which they historically got with a lot of production from the larger river cities, St Louis being a big one with the Eads riverclads).

I also agree on the irregulars. What I found is they can make a good initial push, particularly against the smaller cities, until the AI gets a regular rifle unit built in a city. After that, it either takes a lot of them (with heavy losses) to take something or they are pretty much done. My offensive stalled up north and I can see the hand writing on the wall that most of the towns will be taken back at some point.

I think you mentioned it, but I wanted to confirm that garrison units can see the irregulars. This will allow the AI to effectively police a later game attack in the North by several of these units, should they be constructed on the eastern part of the map. That they can eventually be constructed there is only a matter of time from the stand point that the Arkansas cities will get connected into the road net.

I have built a fair number of slaves (lots of builders is usually a priority for me) and the CSA has to in order to get their unconnected luxaries into the road net so they can reduce their unrest. I do agree about using them en-mass as well. I did have some pollution issues in the game that do slow things down and as big as the map is, moving 3 per turn on a weak road net means it takes awhile to get where you are going..

Something to consider with the Great Lakes cities. They can build whatever naval units, but those units can't get to the Atlantic on this map as they could historically. I don't know if it is worth the time to change the top of the map to give them an outlet (giving a reason to build naval units on the Great Lakes) or not, but I think it should be a consideration. You consider that two of the biggest ports on the east coast in terms of production are New York and Boston and both are pretty busy to commit to ship building as their number one priority. Under this view, they could do their other stuff and yet the Union navy could get help from some of the Great Lakes cities on the ship front.

I should also note not to necessarily restrict myself to the CSA, but rather why I picked it to start with was because it appeared the other gamers were working with the Union.. I will help in whatever capacity you need as far as testing one side or another.

 

[Misfit_travel]

Klyden:

Are you certain about naval units being able to navigate the St. Lawrence River? My understanding of Canadian history was that the river could not be navigated safeway past Quebec City and Montreal.

Major vessels (and military vessels would certainly qualify) couldn't sail past the rapids of Quebec and Montreal. It wasn't until the St. Lawrence Seaway system was built that ocean going vessels to navigate down into the Great Lakes.

Besides which, Canada was part of the British empire at this point and likely wouldn't have permitted mass numbers of naval vessels to cruise past its cities. Britain was neutral in this conflict.

Anybody else have an opinion on this?

Misfit