SGOTM 14 - Kakumeika

[Walter_Wolf]

I also see that we will likely finish asthetics T99, so tech trades T100 most likely.

We have 100 gold in the bank in the real game, so we might go with 100% research for one turn, and 80 or 90% the other. I remember upkeep in the test game costs -51 at 100% research, so I guess the real game upkeep will be similar. We will have at least two more warriors at the time, so upkeep might go up a little bit, but maybe we can starve a city (GP farm?) with a scientist somewhere if it doesn't turn out right.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I finally have the PPP for the T96 to T100 period in which we will hopefully finish aesthetics, and get some tech trade options. Most of it comes from bcool's suggestions. I'll stop at that point for the team to make some decisions and make a PPP for the rest of the turnset.


We will gift the iron resource to the AI to be able to produce a few cheap MP warriors in the next few turns.
We will get a great person on T100 (I believe), so we can discuss it's use after the gameplay stops.


Tech:

Research Aesthetics at 0% research slider T96 and T97, 100% at T98, and max available at T99 to get the tech at T100. Some scientist specialists switching options are available, mainly in Washington.



Units:

Setler from Washington heads towards the planned site, 1N1W of the lake near Gems city to settle T98 and be gifted to Monty. If Monty settles a city the turn before, I stop and the team reconsiders the options.
The workboat NW of Isengard follows the isthmus, and gets back towards the GP farm when it reaches the "bridge". The northern WB explores the Nothern's witches coast heading West. The WB SE of Stone city heads towards Culture bridge's clams, and the one produced in Gems on T98 it's crab. (It will be one turn too late for the border pop, but I think it's better to keep it this way than to loose one or two worker turns to delay the chop - actually, this didn't happen in my las test). The WB produced in Stone city later will be used to improve the future marble site clams.
The great spy heads towards the western witches to hopefully infiltrate if the city gift turns out successfull.
The wounded archer moves to the Isengard's culture borders to save a few bucks (from T98 on) and heals (it reduced maintanance by 1 commerce in the test game).
Amundsen moves to silver ciy T97, after the border pop. He is no longer needed for the GP farm city, as it will produce it's own warrior.



Diplomacy

Refuse all stop trading or war declaration demands.
Assess tech trading options when Aesthetics gets done.


Cities:

Washington

T96 finish library, work sheep, corn, cows, grass mine
T97 start aqueduct. Growth, add PH riverside mine
T99 switch riverside PH mine to a scientist or a lake to aviod aqueduct going over 39 hammers. Scientist or lake depends on the bakers situation. Adding a scientist makes a 7 bakers difference at 0% research slider. If we can get aesthetics at T100 by working the lake, I'll prioritize growth.
T100 3 pop whip the aqueduct OF goes to the HG
T101 start HG

Hoover

T96 move 1N1E, build a 1T road
T97 move to forest 1N2E
T98 start the chop and finish T100, same turn Washington whips aqueduct. Overflow goes into the HG
T101 move to forest 1N1E
T102 chop
T104 chop the hammers into the HG before settling the marble city (same turn).
T105 move to marble
T106 start quarry


Stone city

T96 Building WB, working gold, rice, oasis, stone, crabs and 2 scientists
T99 Start worker
T101 2 pop whip worker at 29/60 hammers
T102 Start a spy with the OF if we get alphabet


Gems city

T96 1T Settler for the chop, working gems, deer, wheat, PH mine, Crab and 2 scientists
T97 finish WB, switch PH mine to grass mine
T98 warrior done, turn off 1 scientist, work grass forest hill
T99 1T settler for the chop, put scientist back
T100 warrior switch grass mine to lake
T101 warrior switch lake to grass mine
T102 Settler
T103 Settler moves towards marble city site to settle T105

Fritz
T96 chop forest for the settler
T97 Move 1S, chop
T99 chop forest for the settler ?
T100 builds mine, or heads towards Washington to build some cottages. I like the cottages option better.




GP farm .... by bcool

T96 warrior, working pig, fish, clam, GH mine
T97 warrior build (will finish in the real game this turn -- in the test game it finishes on T96 so you must waste the excess hammers in the test game with some random build) work coast not the grass mine
T98 Moai statues, work fish, clam, FP, turn on 2 scientists
T100 Moai & add grassland farm not a mine
T101 Moai 0r maybe Shwedagon Paya if we have trade for the right techs
T102 Moai or Shwedagon Paya & add coast not mine

Eiffel
T96 farm FP
T100 move to PH 2S of GP farm. I think we should build the mines around the city so we can switch to building the great library and national epic as soon we have Literature.
T101 build mine

Goodyear
T96 move 2E, farm 1T
T97 move tp FP, farm
T99 move 1S1W, farm
T101 move to PH 1N2E of city
T102 build mine



Isengard ... by bcool

T96 Barracks
T97 Barracks
T98 Barracks (and work sheep not horses)
T99 chariot (sheep, horses, fish)
T100 same
T101 2 pop barracks (working fish and sheep)
T102 axeman (working sheep and horses to finish axe this turn) (copper hooked up this turn)

Karl
T96 roads the sheep
T97 moves 1S1W, 1T road
T98 moves to copper hill
T99 road
T100 road
T101 mines copper (with Yama)
T102 mines copper (with Yama)

Yama
T96 sheep pasture
T97 sheep pasture
T98 sheep pasture (finished)
T99 move 1E and road
T100 road
T101 move to copper hill and mine
T102 mine copper (finishes with Karl)



Silver city

T96 Buid Library working PH mine
T97 Switch PH mine to improved fish
T102 Growth, work fish and pigs


Stevenson
T96 Move E, 1T into a farm
T97 start pig pasture
T101 Move to silver
T102 Start mine

Culture bridge

T96 Build Granary working grass mine
T100 Switch mine to improved crabs
T102 Growth, work crabs and clam
T105 Growth, add grass mine



Stopping reasons

Monty settles his 4th city T96, or T97.
The AI comes back to usbefore we build the planned warriors, ans says it doesn't need the iron anymore, and the deal is off.
Wizard spotted.
Something weird happens.
Barb Galleys in sight.
Anything I feel needs to be discussed by the team.


Every turn

Taking interesting stuff screenshots such as new tiles deffoged, resources found, demographics screen, barbarians and AI units appearance etc. Note new AI's cities founding hopefully not by Monty in the 1st two turns), wonder completition, forrest/jungle growth, note barbarian appearing using the Alt-S option. Saving each turn, and checking the culture tab in sattelite view.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I would play tomorrow, some 22 hours from now. I will be out the whole day tomorrow, so will be updating the PPP and taking suggestions in the last few hours before that.

I DL the game, and will take a peek to check the tech situation.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

I found a difference between the real and test games. The PH mine does not exist in Gems city in the real game.

Screenshots:

Spoiler :

I guess it doesn't change much. The WB will finish in 1 turn after the settler there anyway. I just thought I'd mention it.
EDIT: now that I look again, it might prevent the warrior to be produced at T98.

We are at 152/468 research towards Aesthetics. 316 bakers to go.
At 100 % research, we get -47 gold and 94 bpt, and at 0% +9 and 30 bpt (4 sci specialists) at the moment. At this rate, the gold wouldn't get spent in 2 turns.
At T97, Washington grows, and adds the riverside PH mine. Silver city switches to the fish. That's 3 commerce (+12). Also, Amundsen will get inside the cultural borders for less maintanance. A WB finishes in gems, and a warrior in GP farm (it's 12 hammers overflow there actually), which eats some commerce back.
At T 98 we put 2 scientists in the library in GP farm, but put one out in gems etc etc.

My point is, without too much math here, I would put 100% research at T97 and T98 instead of going one turn earlier as originally suggested, and see if there is any need to raise it at all with 6 specialists (in gems, stone and GP farm) on T99. Washington will have a library too.
Also, silver and culture bridge city can put a "worker specialist" for 3 bakers at low slider if needed.

T100 Aesthetics is in the pocket I think.

cheers

 

[Walter_Wolf]

Ah, yes ... to make the post spam complete,

Got it

 

[bcool]

Looking good WW , just a few more tweaks...
comments in green

I finally have the PPP for the T96 to T100 period in which we will hopefully finish aesthetics, and get some tech trade options. Most of it comes from bcool's suggestions. I'll stop at that point for the team to make some decisions and make a PPP for the rest of the turnset.


We will gift the iron resource to the AI to be able to produce a few cheap MP warriors in the next few turns.
We will get a great person on T100 (I believe), so we can discuss it's use after the gameplay stops.


Tech:

Research Aesthetics at 0% research slider T96 and T97, 100% at T98, and max available at T99 to get the tech at T100. Some scientist specialists switching options are available, mainly in Washington.



Units:

Setler from Washington heads towards the planned site, 1N1W of the lake near Gems city to settle T98 and be gifted to Monty. If Monty settles a city the turn before, I stop and the team reconsiders the options.
The workboat NW of Isengard follows the isthmus, and gets back towards the GP farm when it reaches the "bridge". The northern WB explores the Nothern's witches coast heading West. The WB SE of Stone city heads towards Culture bridge's clams, and the one produced in Gems on T98 it's crab. (It will be one turn too late for the border pop, but I think it's better to keep it this way than to loose one or two worker turns to delay the chop - actually, this didn't happen in my las test). The WB produced in Stone city later will be used to improve the future marble site clams.
The great spy heads towards the western witches to hopefully infiltrate if the city gift turns out successfull.
The wounded archer moves to the Isengard's culture borders to save a few bucks (from T98 on) and heals (it reduced maintanance by 1 commerce in the test game).
Amundsen moves to silver ciy T97, after the border pop. He is no longer needed for the GP farm city, as it will produce it's own warrior.



Diplomacy

Refuse all stop trading or war declaration demands.
Assess tech trading options when Aesthetics gets done.


Cities:

Washington

T96 finish library, work sheep, corn, cows, grass mine
T97 start aqueduct. Growth, add PH riverside mine
T99 switch riverside PH mine to a scientist or a lake to aviod aqueduct going over 39 hammers. Scientist or lake depends on the bakers situation. Adding a scientist makes a 7 bakers difference at 0% research slider. If we can get aesthetics at T100 by working the lake, I'll prioritize growth.
T100 3 pop whip the aqueduct OF goes to the HG
T101 start HG

I don't think the scientist in Washington will be necessary, but I guess it is okay if absolutely necessary (there is no other way)

Hoover

T96 move 1N1E, build a 1T road
T97 move to forest 1N2E
T98 start the chop and finish T100, same turn Washington whips aqueduct. Overflow goes into the HG
T101 move to forest 1N1E
T102 chop
T104 chop the hammers into the HG before settling the marble city (same turn).
T105 move to marble
T106 start quarry


Stone city

T96 Building WB, working gold, rice, oasis, stone, crabs and 2 scientists
T99 Start worker
T101 2 pop whip worker at 29/60 hammers
T102 Start a spy with the OF if we get alphabet


Gems city

T96 1T Settler for the chop, working gems, deer, wheat, PH mine, Crab and 2 scientists
T97 finish WB, switch PH mine to grass mine
T98 warrior done, turn off 1 scientist, work grass forest hill
we don't use the non-existent PMine here so no problem with this plan, you are working the grass hill mine, and grass hill forest and all good tiles and 1 scientist
T99 1T settler for the chop, put scientist back
T100 warrior switch grass mine to lake
T101 warrior switch lake to grass mine
T102 Settler
T103 Settler moves towards marble city site to settle T105

Fritz
T96 chop forest for the settler
T97 Move 1S, chop
T99 chop forest for the settler ?
T100 builds mine, or heads towards Washington to build some cottages. I like the cottages option better.
Yes I think he wants to go cottage washington after this as well. Might as well put in a farm 1E of wheat and stop, then 1 turn of fort/plantation on the incense, then on to cottages.




GP farm .... by bcool

T96 warrior, working pig, fish, clam, GH mine
T97 warrior build (will finish in the real game this turn -- in the test game it finishes on T96 so you must waste the excess hammers in the test game with some random build) work coast not the grass mine
T98 Moai statues, work fish, clam, FP, turn on 2 scientists
T100 Moai & add grassland farm not a mine
T101 Moai 0r maybe Shwedagon Paya if we have trade for the right techs
T102 Moai or Shwedagon Paya & add coast not mine

Eiffel
T96 farm FP

T100 move to PH 2S of GP farm. I think we should build the mines around the city so we can switch to building the great library and national epic as soon we have Literature.
T101 build mine
I would rather have Eiffel help Goodyear finish the grassland farm first, so
T100 moves 1S1W and farms

Goodyear
T96 move 2E, farm 1T
T97 move tp FP, farm
T99 move 1S1W, farm
T101 move to PH 1N2E of city
T102 build mine
If eiffel helps this changes. we may want a road on the grass land farm before moving to the mine, this road will be useful for the settler that probably goes this way.



Isengard ... by bcool

T96 Barracks
T97 Barracks
T98 Barracks (and work sheep not horses)
T99 chariot (sheep, horses, fish)
T100 same
T101 2 pop barracks (working fish and sheep)
T102 axeman (working sheep and horses to finish axe this turn) (copper hooked up this turn)

Karl
T96 roads the sheep
T97 moves 1S1W, 1T road
T98 moves to copper hill
T99 road
T100 road
T101 mines copper (with Yama)
T102 mines copper (with Yama)

Yama
T96 sheep pasture
T97 sheep pasture
T98 sheep pasture (finished)
T99 move 1E and road
T100 road
T101 move to copper hill and mine
T102 mine copper (finishes with Karl)



Silver city

T96 Buid Library working PH mine
T97 Switch PH mine to improved fish
You want to switch from fish to pigs on T100
T102 Growth, work fish and pigs


Stevenson
T96 Move E, 1T into a farm
T97 start pig pasture
T101 Move to silver
T102 Start mine

Culture bridge

T96 Build Granary working grass mine
T100 Switch mine to improved crabs
T102 Growth, work crabs and clam
you want to whip the granary on T102 I believe

T105 Growth, add grass mine



Stopping reasons

Monty settles his 4th city T96, or T97.
The AI comes back to usbefore we build the planned warriors, ans says it doesn't need the iron anymore, and the deal is off.
Wizard spotted.
Something weird happens.
Barb Galleys in sight.
Anything I feel needs to be discussed by the team.


Every turn

Taking interesting stuff screenshots such as new tiles deffoged, resources found, demographics screen, barbarians and AI units appearance etc. Note new AI's cities founding hopefully not by Monty in the 1st two turns), wonder completition, forrest/jungle growth, note barbarian appearing using the Alt-S option. Saving each turn, and checking the culture tab in sattelite view.

 

[Kaitzilla]

PPP looks good to me.


Which city were you guys thinking of putting the Maoi Statues in eventually?

 

[bcool]

consequences of no PMine...

T96 1T Settler for the chop, working gems, deer, wheat, PH mine, Crab and 2 scientists
T97 finish WB, switch PH mine to grass mine
T98 warrior done, turn off 1 scientist, work grass forest hill
we don't use the non-existent PMine here so no problem with this plan, you are working the grass hill mine, and grass hill forest and all good tiles and 1 scientist
T99 1T settler for the chop, put scientist back
T100 warrior switch grass mine to lake
T101 warrior switch lake to grass mine
T102 Settler
T103 Settler moves towards marble city site to settle T105

So I took a closer look at this plan and it is still possible to finish the 2nd warrior T101 by working the unimproved plains hill

On T102 it should be possible to finish the settler as well by working the lake instead of the plains mine as well even accounting for the smaller OF from the warrior.

However, it makes sense for Fritz to build a 2nd grass hill mine finishing T103 I believe instead of sending him to Washington to build cottages in anticipation of growth there. If we don't we will have an extra population in Gems working a lake.

 

[bcool]

I'm thinking that Isengard wouldn't make a half bad Moai statues city and maybe combine it with Heroic Epic.

There is a possibility we don't build Moai, but Isengard does have a few forests that could be chopped into it.

 

[shulec]

I agree the ppp looks good.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

All right, half of the team said they agree with the PPP. 24 hours have passed.

Game loading ...

City gift was a success, and Monty loves us now

Spoiler :

I went on as planned. It's T100, we have Aesthetics, and all but Ragnar and asoka have Alphabet. All the rest would give us Alpha, Polytheism and Meditation for Aesthetics. Gandhy/Monty also have Metal casting (they have our TGL remember?)

We might make the trade with the lizzy team to push their research a bit, and start stealing from them.

We got a Gspy T100.

We also found Gandhi culture, which is great as I smell Metal casting steal soon .

Isengaard's barracks are at 18/50, ready to be whipped.
Washington's aqueduct is at 39/100, ready to be whipped this turn.

I have many screenshots, and will post some if you wish.
Will start on the PPP for the rest of the turnset tomorrow, as it's Monday tomorrow, and it's approaching 1 am

 

[Kaitzilla]

Nice on the Gift City

 

[Walter_Wolf]

Submission info

Spoiler :

Thank you, Walter_Wolf. Your entry has been recorded and your upload is complete.

You may confirm that your submission is in the system by checking the submission list.

Here are the new details we have recorded.
Reference number: 11238
Game: C-IV SGOTM 14
Your team: Kakumeika
Your name: Walter_Wolf
Date submitted: 2011-10-16
Software Version: BtS 3.19
Game date: 375BC
Player race: America
Firaxis score: 401
Session time played (hh:mm:ss): 01:15:01
Total time played (hh:mm:ss): 15:34:19
Game status: Incomplete
Submitted save: Dorothy_375-BC_Oct-17-2011_00-28-32.CivBeyondSwordSave
Renamed file: Kakumeika_SG014_BC0375_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Right click the Renamed File link above to copy it.
You can then paste it into your team post as the download link for the next player.
News Update: The Wizard of Oz is still alive


Here is your Session Turn Log from 475 BC to 375 BC:

Turn 96, 475 BC: The borders of Silver City have expanded!

Turn 97, 450 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Gems City. Work has now begun on a Settler.

Turn 98, 425 BC: Gems City can hurry Settler for 2⇴ with 11ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 13 turns.
Turn 98, 425 BC: GP Farm has grown to size 6.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Trojan horse has been founded.
Turn 98, 425 BC: You have trained a Warrior in Gems City. Work has now begun on a Settler.
Turn 98, 425 BC: Good Witch of the West has founded Bangalore in a distant land.

Turn 99, 400 BC: Gems City can hurry Settler for 2⇴ with 13ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 12 turns.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Isengard has grown to size 3.
Turn 99, 400 BC: The borders of Culture Bridge are about to expand.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Good Witch of the South will trade Meditation
Turn 99, 400 BC: Wicked Witch of the South will trade Meditation
Turn 99, 400 BC: Wicked Witch of the West will trade Alphabet, Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 99, 400 BC: Good Witch of the West will trade Alphabet, Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 99, 400 BC: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Gems City.
Turn 99, 400 BC: Washington will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 99, 400 BC: GP Farm will grow to size 7 on the next turn.
Turn 99, 400 BC: You have discovered Aesthetics!
Turn 99, 400 BC: Mark Swiss (Great Spy) has been born in Stone City (Dorothy)!
Turn 99, 400 BC: The borders of Culture Bridge have expanded!

Turn 100, 375 BC: Washington has grown to size 6.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Washington can hurry Aqueduct for 3⇴ with 41ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 15 turns.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Stone City can hurry Worker for 2⇴ with 27ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 100, 375 BC: GP Farm has grown to size 7.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Isengard can hurry Chariot for 1⇴ with 10ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 100, 375 BC: Wicked Witch of the North will trade Alphabet, Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 100, 375 BC: Good Witch of the North will trade Alphabet, Meditation, Polytheism

You may wish to copy it to Notepad for reference when you write your turn set post. It includes any entries you added with the in-game Chat facility

 

[Kaitzilla]

Interesting. 2 Great Spys now.

 

[bcool]

looks good Walter Wolf

Thoughts on trades... Before we get too far we should infiltrate the northern witches this turn so we at least know what they are teching.

I did a little investigating... based on changes in our GNP it seems likely
the eastern witches know construction, (but do not know metal casting, calendar, currency, or horseback riding)
all the AI know monotheism and monarchy
all except the eastern witches know alphabet

The southern and western witches know caste system
the western witches also know metal casting but will not trade it

The witches of the south remain worst enemies of the north and east
The witches of the east remain worst enemies of the south

We can freely trade with north and west without worrying about diplo penalities.

As Walter_Wolf indicated everyone will give alphabet, poly, and meditation for aesthetics.
One other option we may want to consider is the wicked witch of the west (Monty) will switch to slavery and give us poly and meditation for aesthetics but will not give us alphabet as well.

So options...
Assuming the northern witches are not teching something we would like to trade for soon (which we will know this turn from a great spy infiltration)...
I think we get alphabet, poly and meditation from the northern witches (no diplo penalities, doesn't hurt to give these guys a boost so they might tech something we want)

Then next turn we trade for priesthood and monotheism from eastern witches? might get diplo penalty from the southern witches which I hope will be our rivals in the UN vote.

Then next, next turn we (hopefully) trade for caste system from the western witches and possibly switch monty out of caste system to slavery to avoid long term issues from Trojan Horse's culture.

Then we plan to steal metal casting from the western witches, and set up a spy to steal something from the northern witches. The urgency depends on what we can see about their tech once we infiltrate.

Get another spy ready for the Trojan horse city, since I expect the western witches to tech really fast too.

I think we want to infiltration with the western Great Spy, exploring the western witches culture until we need those espionage points to steal metal casting from the western witches (probably waiting until we get a 50% discount with a stationary spy but before we get our own religion)

I'm thinking we want to whip a spy in Gems instead of starting another warrior there. So this turn switch to a spy and ideally grow this turn (although we don't have the lake due to trojan horse's culture --from a great artist presumably), whip T101, finish settler T102. This frees up Fritz to go help Washington with cottages, but might slow down our next great person due from Gems I believe. The great scientist is going to come quite late for bulbing philosophy unfortunately.

 

[shulec]

Four thoughts:

1. We need to beg Montezuma to see if he will switch to slavery (we can surely count on him to do so because of his easy going benevolent nature.)

2. I want the Archer at Isengard to fog bust the hub city site so a Barb city doesn't spawn.

3. The stars will have to align for us to get found Taoism. Too many AI can be researching philosophy now.

4. I initially had a bad feeling when I saw a lot of mountains on the spoke northeast of Gandhi. Then I realized this must be Monte's land and since we saw his scout, it must not be a walled off area hiding the wizard.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Well, Monty founded Hinduism, and my analysis earlier indicated the founder of Hinduism might be on an island of some sort.

Having to sail settlers over might be a reason for Monty to only have 3 cities at such a late date for emperor AI.


If Monty really is on an island, then Ghandi his partner will be getting all kinds of gold in the city that built the Great Lighthouse and Temple of Artemis.




Also, I wonder how much gold a Great Merchant would yield from a trade mission sent 60ish tiles across the map to a city with such wonders.

 

[mabraham]

PPP looks good to me.


Which city were you guys thinking of putting the Maoi Statues in eventually?

I'm thinking that Isengard wouldn't make a half bad Moai statues city and maybe combine it with Heroic Epic.

There is a possibility we don't build Moai, but Isengard does have a few forests that could be chopped into it.

I'm usually pretty lukewarm about the Maoi Statues if not Financial or Industrious. It has a noticeable up-front cost, even with stone available, constrains the future management of that city (e.g. you want a lighthouse also, and don't want to whip/draft it), and takes a while to pay off. Usually one can find something else to do with those hammers - like build spies and units, here.

As far as Isengard goes, we'll be running Caste System with Metal Casting pretty soon, and we have enough food without a lighthouse to run the five resource tiles, two 12 grassland workshops and two 3 plains workshops at size 9. Guilds will buff this further, but it's not clear we'll get that any time soon. Moai can only return 8 extra hammers per turn (and 8 commerce), and needs to get to size 12 to do so.

 

[mabraham]

looks good Walter Wolf

Thoughts on trades... Before we get too far we should infiltrate the northern witches this turn so we at least know what they are teching.

Yep

I did a little investigating... based on changes in our GNP it seems likely
the eastern witches know construction, (but do not know metal casting, calendar, currency, or horseback riding)
all the AI know monotheism and monarchy
all except the eastern witches know alphabet

The southern and western witches know caste system
the western witches also know metal casting but will not trade it

The witches of the south remain worst enemies of the north and east
The witches of the east remain worst enemies of the south

We can freely trade with north and west without worrying about diplo penalities.

As Walter_Wolf indicated everyone will give alphabet, poly, and meditation for aesthetics.
One other option we may want to consider is the wicked witch of the west (Monty) will switch to slavery and give us poly and meditation for aesthetics but will not give us alphabet as well.

So options...
Assuming the northern witches are not teching something we would like to trade for soon (which we will know this turn from a great spy infiltration)...
I think we get alphabet, poly and meditation from the northern witches (no diplo penalities, doesn't hurt to give these guys a boost so they might tech something we want)

Then next turn we trade for priesthood and monotheism from eastern witches? might get diplo penalty from the southern witches which I hope will be our rivals in the UN vote.

Then next, next turn we (hopefully) trade for caste system from the western witches and possibly switch monty out of caste system to slavery to avoid long term issues from Trojan Horse's culture.

Then we plan to steal metal casting from the western witches, and set up a spy to steal something from the northern witches. The urgency depends on what we can see about their tech once we infiltrate.

The trading and stealing plans all sound great.

Even if Monty stays in Caste, I do not see Trojan Horse ever competing with either Gems City or GPFarm. TH has no food, so will never run more than one artist. GPFarm has monument and library, both of which will double after 1000 years, and will later get NE and probably GLib. Gems has a library, which will double, and Judaism, so it can't lose any of its inner tiles. If we care about the lake and Gmine, and Monty is running an artist, then we need to look at putting some religious buildings or the Parthenon in Gems City - assuming WorldBuilder tests show these work well.

Get another spy ready for the Trojan horse city, since I expect the western witches to tech really fast too.

I think we want to infiltration with the western Great Spy, exploring the western witches culture until we need those espionage points to steal metal casting from the western witches (probably waiting until we get a 50% discount with a stationary spy but before we get our own religion)

I'm thinking we want to whip a spy in Gems instead of starting another warrior there. So this turn switch to a spy and ideally grow this turn (although we don't have the lake due to trojan horse's culture --from a great artist presumably), whip T101, finish settler T102. This frees up Fritz to go help Washington with cottages, but might slow down our next great person due from Gems I believe. The great scientist is going to come quite late for bulbing philosophy unfortunately.

The screenshot is from T98, and I haven't loaded the real save. Monty could be running an artist specialist to keep those tiles, if he really does have them at T100. Anyway, I do like a fast spy, but I think I like a fast bulb of Philo more. We need to look at which cities will pop GScientists when...

 

[mabraham]

Four thoughts:

1. We need to beg Montezuma to see if he will switch to slavery (we can surely count on him to do so because of his easy going benevolent nature.)

but worth trying

2. I want the Archer at Isengard to fog bust the hub city site so a Barb city doesn't spawn.

Yes, he was doing that in my turn set, I guess we didn't keep that detail constant between the PPPs.

3. The stars will have to align for us to get found Taoism. Too many AI can be researching philosophy now.

4. I initially had a bad feeling when I saw a lot of mountains on the spoke northeast of Gandhi. Then I realized this must be Monte's land and since we saw his scout, it must not be a walled off area hiding the wizard.