SGOTM 14 - Spooks

[Più Freddo]

I think Magellan's is likely to be a better bet

Sounds good.

 

[Più Freddo]

if we are the first to Writing, I favor a CoL & Philosophy path to get us to Republic first.

Let's postpone this decision until we have discovered Writing.

 

[Più Freddo]

Then capital continues at ave of sl over 15bpt - I've assumed 15.

As long as it's a Settler Factory, the average is 16 bpt. After that, it's higher.

What the result with 16 bpt for the capital?

 

[Andronicus]

As long as it's a Settler Factory, the average is 16 bpt. After that, it's higher.

What the result with 16 bpt for the capital?

1bpt extra whilst researching CoL would leave us about 10 beakers short of shaving a turn off CoL (after 15 turns accumulate an extra 15 beakers but require 25 beakers on last turn). More likely we get extra beakers from other towns by working 2gpt tile (eg roaded river tile)

I agree we delay the decision till we discover writing - the importance of thinking about it now is to consider maximising commerce where practical so we have the opportunity

 

[Paul#42]

Sounds valid to me, Andro.

And as you pointed out - still conservative, if we have need we could assign scientists in 2nd and 3rd towns - in urgency cases.

We'll take another estimation when we know writing.

We can start now, can't we?

 

[Paul#42]

I think Magellan's is likely to be a better bet and timed with cranking out cavs should be able to set up the end game.
I mentioned it before, but ask again - how deep are we likely to have to go with research - is cavalry enough? Maybe carracks and cavs (to transport our cav armies?)

I think for now we should think cavs. Ignore the upper branch completely and if necessary (and the AI surprises us big time) we capture TGL to get the upper branch techs.

That does not solve the GA question...
Let's see who builds GLH...

 

[Più Freddo]

We can start now, can't we?

I will as soon as I can. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Più Freddo]

Things are going well for the Portuguese. They met the Zulu in 3650 and didn't trade. They met the Russians in 3500 and first bought WC and 10 gold from the Zulu for Al, then BW, CB, 15 gold and a Slave from the Russians for Al and WC. That's all they both had. Both were met through Scouts only. The land is otherwise clear. Screen-shot coming up.

Now I have to remake the spread-sheet. Perhaps we can shave off another turn on Writing thanks to the Slave.

Edit:

We couldn't get Writing earlier, but don't need the extra Worker any more. The first Settler is three turns earlier and the rest two turns earlier than planned.

 

[Paul#42]

A slave?!?
Phantastic!!

Let'm road, let'm road!

Road Ivory then wheat then wine I'd suggest?


We'll get lots of opportunities to buy slaves this game. Let's keep our eyes (erm CA2 and mapstat) open.
Let's hope we always have a tech to pay with...

 

[Andronicus]

They met the Zulu in 3650 ... They met the Russians in 3500 ...

Have all the expansionist tribes been put on an island together? ... just to make sure we get no goody huts

a Slave from the Russians

Now I have to remake the spread-sheet. Perhaps we can shave off another turn on Writing thanks to the Slave.

Hopefully we get to remake spreadsheet lots of times due to extra slaves (still, I dare say other teams will get their share too)

 

[Andronicus]

Let'm road, let'm road!

Road Ivory then wheat then wine I'd suggest?

Perhaps we have greater need of roading to future town sites ... a turn or 2 taken off time for settler to get there can make the difference in beating AI

 

[Più Freddo]

roading to future town sites

Well, a Worker and a Slave is a great road-making team. They are free to road in 2270 BC.

We also need to hook up that Incense. Rivers going to Wheat in the SW and SE, another river NE. Sure good we made that Settler factory.

 

[Più Freddo]

4000 BC _0 Found Caspar's Castle Ca>Wi. Worker1 i. Scout N, NW.

3950 BC _1 Scout N, N.

3900 BC _2 Scout E, SE.

3850 BC _3 Scout E, NE.

3800 BC _4 Caspar's Castle Wi>Ca. Scout S, SE.

3750 BC _5 Caspar's Castle Curragh. Warrior S. Worker1 r. Scout S.

3700 BC _6 Warrior N. Scout SE, S.

3650 BC _7 Caspar's Castle Iv1>Wi. Warrior f. Scout S, SW. Meet Zululand.

3600 BC _8 Worker1 SW, SW. Scout SW, W.

3550 BC _9 Scout S, W.

3500 BC 10 Caspar's Castle Granary, Cultural Expansion, Iv1>Wi. Meet Russia. Zululand WC+10<Al. Russia Slave+BW+CB+15<Al+WC. Curragh W, SW. Scout W, SW. Slave1 SW.

3450 BC 11 Curragh W, W, W. See two new borders. Slave1 SW. Scout S, SE.

3400 BC 12 Meet America. Connect Ivory. Worker1 i. Slave1 r. Curragh SE, S, W. Meet Celts. Scout SE, SE. America Mas+35<WC. Celts 10<WC. CC Iv1>Wh.

3350 BC 13 Scout E, NE. Curragh SE, S, SW.

3300 BC 14 Curragh SE, S, SW. Scout E, E. Meet Arabia. They have TW.

3250 BC 15 Scout E, E. Locate Zululand. Curragh SE, S, W. CC Wh>Iv2.

3200 BC 16 Curragh S, S, W. Worker1 E. Scout S, S.

3150 BC 17 First Barbarian. Scout W, SW. Locate Russia. Worker1 C. Curragh SW, W. CC Iv1>Wh. Entertainment 10%.

3100 BC 18 Scout S, S. Slave1 i. Curragh S, SW, N.

3050 BC 19 Curragh NW, N. Scout S, S.

3000 BC 20 Curragh NW, N. Scout E, E. Meet Ottomans 30<Al. 110 gold is not enough for a Zulu Slave.

EDIT:

Bought Slave from Zulu for 102 gold and 1 gpt. We can still make Writing in time going minus 1 gold in the interturn after 3000 BC, then reducing science spending by one beaker per turn.

 

[Più Freddo]

To continue, we need to follow the plan in the attached spread-sheet. If anyone has any problems understanding the spread-sheet, please let us know instead of just playing on!

What is not in the spread-sheet is the need to reduce science spending three turns before the discovery of Writing in order to win some cash. I am sure everyone is familiar with this.

I also hope everyone can operate a four-turn settler factory. One has to check the worked tiles and raise science spending everytime a Settler is produced and then reduce science spending and move one citizen from the Forest to the roaded BG two turns later after growth.

At the current turn, we have 110 gold and Zululand has a Worker which costs more. We could borrow 15 gold from the Arabs for 1 gpt. That should cover it.

I wouldn't do it. Anyone for?

EDIT:

Added spread-sheet.

 

[Paul#42]

I cannot see any attachments.

You need to submit the 3000BC save here.

I'm torn about the slave, need to look at the save, imo it depends on our scout, our contacts, granary and writing timing.
Another slave might pay himself by connecting luxury and secondary towns more quickly...

slaves optimized
In general, putting a slave and a worker together is not always best use imo. You waste 1.5 worker turns for the move. That only pays off if that road is urgent. It might also make sense if the tile-to-road is the only one, the worker can reach on the road system.
Usually slaves are best used if they can road a tile for a worker to improve it (mine, water) later so one only loses 0.5 worker turns for moving.


edit:
I attached a first dotmap for discussions.

I'd settle in this order:
red
blue
cyan
green
brown
yellow
pink

 

[Yilar]

I like this setup better.
Building order to be discussed.

Remember, we are going for a fast win...

For Paul: http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sssasaddas1233mw8.jpg

 

[Andronicus]

Great start, now if can just see the save

In SP I almost invariably buy slaves, preferably for gpt. If I cant fund my deficit, I borrow. Not only do slaves pay for themselves, they hamstring the AI and with gpt payments to AI they reduce possibility of early dow (remember the AI are likely to be much more crowded than we are.

With respect to crowding, I expect to see a rush of AI settlers to spoil our lovely dot maps. I'm keen to know where closest AI are so we know which sites we need to make a run for soonest.

3150 BC 17 First Barbarian

Do we consider escort for settlers? (return to CC immed upon ensuring settler arrives safely) - comes at cost of less mp and hence more lux tax. Using F3 tells if any active barb camps near, but camps can appear in the inter turn.

Once we get writing we are at risk of demands. My thoughts are if overseas AI demands we naturally refuse and welcome the WHs; if AI on our island demands we cave at present and then sell writing off to our island for what we can get. Otherwise we wait till we have CoL before selling writing. Any thoughts?

Embassies - I would hold off until we have more money (skimming off overseas AI with old techs) unless we get dow and need an ally.

Re dot maps - We should see more when we can see the save, but I wonder if we could squeeze a town 2E of CC so we can share the cow when in republic (not that long away if we are successful with slingshot as planned). This requires moving blue dot 1NW. Is the cyan dot Yilar has moved to forest by the southern wheat still on the river? I cant be certain from the image. I do like the extra town on that southern river per Yilar's dotmap. I suspect green might be the first to fall to the AI - all those lovely incense hills and a BG to boot. Looks like crappy terrain to north (tundra) and to south (desert). These might make good spots for reservations to preserve ailing AI.

Slaves and roading. I agree with Paul here, I prefer to let the slaves waste a move to non roaded tile in preference to normal worker who can achieve more in that worker turn. Thus I set slaves continuously roading to provide workers with irrigation and mining tasks.

 

[Più Freddo]

I cannot see any attachments.

You need to submit the 3000BC save

I know. I'm sorry, I ran out of time yesterday.

 

[Più Freddo]

I'd settle in this order:
red

I'd put Red one more step SW for more territory and score and more even distribution of corruption and wastage (first city close to capital means very low c&w there and high everywhere else).

Red first is appealing, it could produce Workers, but this site is safe from AI intrusion. Perhaps a city to the SE first. The Zulu are south-east of us, the Russians south. The visible city is Moscow.

The Ottomans came from the north. The Arabs I guess are in the "far" east.

In the west on another landmass we have America north of Celts.

 

[Paul#42]

In SP I almost invariably buy slaves, preferably for gpt. If I cant fund my deficit, I borrow. Not only do slaves pay for themselves, they hamstring the AI and with gpt payments to AI they reduce possibility of early dow (remember the AI are likely to be much more crowded than we are.

gpt is even better then giving our lump sum.

With respect to crowding, I expect to see a rush of AI settlers to spoil our lovely dot maps. I'm keen to know where closest AI are so we know which sites we need to make a run for soonest.

Looks like we indeed will have to push to SE first.
It also looks like another coastal site would be appealing to send out another curragh soon...
So many temptations...

Do we consider escort for settlers? (return to CC immed upon ensuring settler arrives safely) - comes at cost of less mp and hence more lux tax. Using F3 tells if any active barb camps near, but camps can appear in the inter turn.

We should.

Once we get writing we are at risk of demands. My thoughts are if overseas AI demands we naturally refuse and welcome the WHs; if AI on our island demands we cave at present and then sell writing off to our island for what we can get. Otherwise we wait till we have CoL before selling writing. Any thoughts?

Agree - unless we get slaves offered and our deficite is too high...

Embassies - I would hold off until we have more money (skimming off overseas AI with old techs) unless we get dow and need an ally.

Re dot maps - We should see more when we can see the save, but I wonder if we could squeeze a town 2E of CC so we can share the cow when in republic (not that long away if we are successful with slingshot as planned). This requires moving blue dot 1NW. Is the cyan dot Yilar has moved to forest by the southern wheat still on the river? I cant be certain from the image. I do like the extra town on that southern river per Yilar's dotmap.

Agreed. I'd even move it 1SW, that should also be on the river and saves the forest for 2nd shield at size 2 or chop.

I'd put Red one more step SW for more territory and score and more even distribution of corruption and wastage (first city close to capital means very low c&w there and high everywhere else).

You mean moving the rank 1 town closer to or away from the capital affects corruption in other towns?
I doubt that. The corruption formular does only include the rank and distance and does not involve the lower ranked towns' corruption.

Red first is appealing, it could produce Workers, but this site is safe from AI intrusion. Perhaps a city to the SE first. The Zulu are south-east of us, the Russians south. The visible city is Moscow.

Right, save red for later...

The Ottomans came from the north. The Arabs I guess are in the "far" east.

On our continent?
Then green dot indeed might be impossible to take...
...peacefully.