SGOTM 21 - Xteam

[Dhoomstriker]

Med bara sex dagar kvar så är det nog viktigt att vi rullar spelet vidare. Om ingen svarar inom ett par timmar så är det bäst om du spelar några rundor.

Spoiler :

With just six days left, it is important that we push the game forward. If there is no answer within a few hours, it will be best if you play a few turns.

Understood. No one took up the offer to play, so I'll carry the game forward to T150 pretty soon. That's an important turn for planning our end game.

How about a haka for luck?

I am in support of any form of positive physical exercise!

I'm not comfortable with leaving 3 cats in the open next to London and let Elizabeth start to kill them.

Mr. Nelson (Horatio) should be up to the task, right?

Mansa got a GE. Is there any chance he will be used for the Taj Mahal?

Indeed there is! In one game I played, Monte received Nationalism from me as soon as I learned it, as I needed his help in a war.

Of course, Monte had had a Great Engineer sitting on ice. I looked back through the Event Log and he'd had it for more than 30 turns... just... waiting... for me to slip up. :0

Let's hope that Mansa builds a different Wonder instead.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

One thing that I'm not sure what to do about is our boats.

Probably leaving them scattered near Elizabeth's Cities will be the best use for them.

We'll need to collect our few surviving troops for use in recapturing Elizabeth's Cities.

We don't really have other immediate commitments for our boats, although soon we'll want to plan perhaps a Galleon chain toward Mao's area with some Settlers... but, after securing Elizabeth as a Voting Buddy.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Been away all day. Dhoom, you have a plan ready, so please go ahead and play.

Can't our boats generate some GG points?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Can't our boats generate some GG points?

I suppose that we can't really expect Elizabeth to build any more boats, while we need another 8 XP for our Queen Elizabeth Galleon or another 24 XP for our Galleon 7.

After the first war, we'll soon be in a war with Elizabeth again, so it will be nice to have more of her boats around for further XP.

But, if and when we get a boat with 30 XP, we can definitely finish off her remaining boats for XP... or, we could leave her with a a miminal navy so that another AI doesn't try to eliminate our voting buddy.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Turnset Report

T147, 740 AD
Domestic Advisor: We switch a Scientist to a Cottage in X-ops and build the Heroic Epic in Gems

Foreign Advisor: We could use more Settlers for Mao

Domestic Advisor: All right, let's build one in City 4, as we're at our Happiness cap there, working the Mines in place of the Farms

X King: Do we have Engineers hired?

Domestic Advisor: Oh, yes, those have already been hired, one in Piscatorium and one in Utrecht

Science Advisor: Will we still need to self-tech Physics if we get a Great Engineer?

Foreign Advisor: Well, perhaps not if Mansa goes after it and we get a Great Engineer, but we're far enough away from getting a Great Engineer that we'd have to race Mansa to Physics for fear of not getting a Great Engineer

Science Advisor: Understood. But, isn't there the possibility of simply Chopping out the Wonder?

Foreign Advisor: It's probably a good idea to have that option as a backup, while still focusing on getting our Great People

Military Commander: Can we still get a Spearman out of Canterbury?

Domestic Advisor: We can whip one on T150. If we decide to keep Elizabeth as a non-Hindu for a turn, it will definitely get completed

Military Commander: We execute the plan of transferring our Military Units and we send 3 Workers from around London on a voyage

Worker Task Leader: Let's be sure to put Roads on our Mines when we complete our Mines. That way, we will facilitate the efficient Railroading of those squares at the key moment in time when the Railroad tech becomes available


T148, 760 AD

Religious Leader: We vote "No" to stopping the war against Elizabeth

Military Commander: We watch as Elizabeth's boats continue to avoid attacking ours and while Mansa stuffs the City of All Hail Astro! with several Military Units

Financial Advisor: Who's Astro?

Science Advisor: I have dog named Astro. Does he count?

Financial Advisor: Maybe!

Military Commander: Galleon 7, still slightly wounded, earns 2 XP attacking a Trireme that is in the Ocean for 98% odds, bringing him up to 8 XP

Science Advisor: Don't forget about Chariot 1 when we go to attack London

Military Commander: Good tip! Every able hand may count! We don't want to fail to capture MoM!

Foreign Advisor: Mansa has begun a Golden Age!

Financial Advisor: Nooo! He beat us to Nationalism and launched a Golden Age! What a jerk!

Military Commander: I thought that I saw something funny going on with the Commerce increasing in Mansa's waters while his units were shuffling around Astro City

Science Advisor: Calm down, bro. Mansa is still 2 turns away from learning Nationalism

Financial Advisor: Then, how? But, what? Wait, how, what, huh?

Religious Leader: Calmer heads prevail. Mansa decided must have decided that a lone Great Engineer for a Golden Age was "good enough"

Science Advisor: Either that or he launched a multiple-Great-Person Golden Age. It's not like we've really been keeping close count

Religious Leader: Finally, a hit! Tokyo gains Confucianism!

Military Commander: Too bad that Kyoto of old is still Toku's capital

Worker Task Leader: Guys, does anyone have a boat that I can borrow?

Military Commander: Sure, what's up, bud?

Worker Task Leader: Well, remember earlier how we decided to be lazy about Roading Piscatorium's Mines and then we said that we should Road the north-east Mine, to facilitate transfering units to boats?

Military Commander: Yeah, yeah, sure, we can do that. Maybe you can assign one of the Worker crews who are working at Mansa's area to take care of that task

Worker Task Leader: That's fine. But, before I sign off, I should mention that some jerk left a big pile of money on that Mine

Science Advisor: Wait, are you saying that we popped Silver there?

Worker Task Leader: More like someone pooped out these grey-coloured bars, dropped a bag of money, and ran away

Spoiler :

Science Advisor: So, it is Silver! How did you ever get this job, anyway?

Worker Task Leader: My uncle is the Financial Advisor

Science Advisor: It figures...

X King: So, do we still need Settlers for Mao?

Financial Advisor: You don't think that he's going to hand away the secret of Gunpowder to just any old punk in the neighbourhood, do you?

X King: Mmmm, I suppose not

Foreign Advisor: Besides, once Mao secures Silver, we can sell ours and get his in trade!

X King: In trade for what, exactly?

Foreign Advisor: I haven't worked that part out yet... maybe something (else) will pop up

Domestic Advisor: We switch to almost completing our catapult in Surfin' Turf

Religious Leader: The City of Bethlehem, to be gifted to Isabella, has been founded

Scientific Advisor: Yes, because we all know that Isabella is a devout Christian

Financial Advisor: I think that you meant to say: "Yes, because we all know that Isabella is a devout Christian Buddhist."

Scientific Advisor: Haha, yes, you've got it!

X King: Do we really want to give that City away to Isabella? The AP Resolution has come and gone and we'll be in State Property 2 turns from now

Foreign Advisor: Well, she will give us Liberation credit for the City

Scientific Advisor: Perhaps, that's true, but we don't stand a chance of getting her up to Friendly status. Every City will soon count as a net gain!

Financial Advisor: Perhaps that's true, but it is a pretty junky City

Scientific Advisor: It can soon work a Dye!

Financial Advisor: Hmmm, true, and that'll be one more Resource which we can trade away. What if Isabella gets a funny idea and decides to declare war on us?

Military Commander: We demanded her Gold per turn, so no chance of that possibility happening for another 5 turns

X King: I'm inclined to hold onto the City. We can stuff a Longbowman in there at some point to deter her from attacking. We don't really want her sharing the Crab with this City, growing it, whipping a Hindu Monastery, then spreading Hinduism around, do we?

Religious Leader: I think that she'd be more likely to build an Archer and then a Lighthouse or Granary first

Military Commander: It took Mansa no time at all to stuff his new City full of Military Units. Isabella might do the same and then start producing Buildings, such as a Hindu Monastery. My vote is to hold onto the City for now

X King: So be it. We'll keep the City for now. But, if Isabella ever gets her hands full, she can have the City

Spoiler :

Worker Task Leader: I suppose that you two Workers are just going to have to stick around for a while longer to improve that Dye

Military Commander: We continue the Bombardments at London and we fully remove the defences at Coventry! It appears that London has created a Horse Archer

X King: I suppose that she decided she wanted more attackers, even if she already matches the number of our attackers with the number of her defenders

Military Commander: Our Spearmen from The Hague board the William Galleon. Also, we send Galleon 6, with a wounded WE aboard, to join the QE Galleon just outside of Elizabeth's Cultural Borders, for some extra healing love

Financial Advisor: Let us not forget to thank the hard efforts which were invested in collecting Failure Gold for my coffers. Ahhh, I love playing in a big pile of gold coins


T149, 780 AD

Religious Leader: Shaka actually voted alongside of Elizabeth, so it's pretty good that we had our Hindu votes from X-opolis. We still handily won the election results with help from Mansa voting to keep the war going
Vote Totals:
Pericles 50
Mansa 48
Elizabeth 28
Shaka 70

Foreign Advisor: Mao has connected another source of Copper and offers it up for trade

Military Commander: London now has 2 Horse Archers defending it. Time to drop off our troops!

X King: What of Coventry?

Military Commander: It has been captured, my liege, for the cost of 3 Catapults.

X King: Ouch. That was the lot of them, wasn't it? Seeing as how most of our Catapults at London are wounded, I imagine that we'll soon be losing all of those, too

Military Commander: Most likely. But, we cannot let Shaka exist on the map with so many Hindu votes, so we'll need to raise some Barracks and Catapults during the Golden Age

Stone Settler: I see a Galleon! Galleon belonging to Mao!

Military Commander: Shout again if he drops off a Settler Party, but perhaps he's simply sending troops in Shaka's general direction

Spoiler :

Domestic Advisor: We stop preventing Marble from growing, seeing as how we'll be in State Property next turn (fingers crossed on the London battle). Also, we set Surfin' Turf up to put as many Hammers as possible into its Catapult for overflow into a Confucian Missionary

Foreign Advisor: Our Settler for a second gift City for Mansa sets sail

Military Commander: Our Queen Elizabeth Galleon makes yet another kill! 24 XP down, 6 more XP to go!

Galleon 4 Captain: Galleon 5 stole 2 of my Worker cargo, but I managed to drop one off on the Stone. We also spotted a second Galleon of Mao's inside of the nearby City of Tianjin

Spoiler :

T150, 800 AD

Foreign Advisor: We have met Catherine?

Spoiler :

Military Commander: But, how? I don't recall sending any ships her way

Science Advisor: She does yet know Compass

Foreign Advisor: And yet, she has met Toku, Mao, and Mansa

Military Commander: Well, Mansa sent Caravels her way, and Mao has had Caravels for a while. Toku might have met her by Culture. How did we meet her?

Foreign Advisor: I'll look into it shortly. For now, since she is not anyone's Worst Enemy, we take her 9 GPT for our Gems (not many others want our Gems) and we Open Borders with her

X King: Nationalism first. Can we get it?

Foreign Advisor: Nationalism is ours. Oh, and we also bribed Mansa back into Hereditary Rule for free, partially to get Louis to stop treating Mansa as his Worst Enemy (which should work, as Louis is now Cautious toward Mansa) and to refuse the Worst Enemy trading effects with all of the Mansa-haters (Louis, Toku, and Mao)

Spoiler :

Science Advisor: The three of them already hate us by -4 for trading with Mansa

Foreign Advisor: Who knows? Maybe such a value might wear off?

Science Advisor: Mansa also appears to be teching Constitution. With any luck, he'll go for Corporation, too, allowing us to get Corporation in trade when we need it without having to obsolete The Great Lighthouse until we do need Corporation

Foreign Advisor: I figured it out! We met Catherine because we learned Communism!

Financial Advisor: Do you mean that some sort of an event was scripted?

Foreign Advisor: Actually, that was just a terrible joke. We met her when Bethlehem's Cultural Borders expanded, because she is located to the north-east of Isabella. Oh, and also we got news that Catherine founded her 13th City before we even got word that we had met her!

Spoiler :

Science Advisor: Say, Bethlehem isn't all ours anymore, is it?

Religious Leader: It seems that Isabella's Cultural Borders have expanded. The City isn't in danger of Culture-flipping yet, but if it does go into City Revolt, we can simply gift the City to Isabella at that time

Science Advisor: So much for working a Dye Resource anytime soon

Worker Task Leader: 3 Worker turns remain on our Stone Fort now... we should complete it next turn, just when we need to!

Military Commander: Elizabeth has produced another unit in London, called a Great Scientist. Shall I execute with extreme prejudice?

X King: We need MoM, so, yes, unfortunately

Military Commander: London is ours! It comes with a Lighthouse, a Forge, an Academy, a Courthouse, and a stash of Wonders. Oh yeah, there's a settled Great Prophet and a settled Great General, too!

Spoiler :

Domestic Advisor: With that confirmation, we launch our 12-turn Golden Age using our Great Merchant (from X-ops) and our Great Spy (from Communism). Into State Property and Organized Religion we go!

X King: Let's hope that the Unhappiness doesn't affect us too much

Domestic Advisor: Well, we may end up wanting to 2-pop-whip the Confucian Temple in X-ops now, for +1 Happiness, +2 base Flasks, and +2 base Gold, since we're at 1 Unhappiness there

Military Commander: You can steal the Chariot from Surfin' Turf now that Surfin' Turf has a Catapult to keep its people Happy

Domestic Advisor: Good idea. Still, we'll run into Happiness issues in X-ops next turn, so whipping might still be the right way to go. Confucian Temple = 2 population points, Customs House = 3 population points

Military Commander: We have another Great General in Surfin' Turf, which should help us to finish off our Elizabeth task, once we have a boat with enough XP

Religious Leader: The F8 MEMBERS Apostolic Palace Resident screen now shows:
Turns until next Vote: 7
Votes until next Election: 0

X King: What does that mean?

Religious Leader: It means that for some reason, the Votes until next Election got reset, but not the Turns until next Vote... perhaps we won't reset the voting cycle after all, but will just speed it up by 1 single vote

Military Commander: Our QE Galleon reaches 26 / 26 XP, meaning that it will be able to take the Combat I Promotion next turn

X King: What of Hun?

Military Commander: Mao has Military Units nearby, including at least one Horse Archer, so we capture Hun with no losses. Let the countdown to getting 2 Chops there within 5 turns begin!

Spoiler :

Foreign Advisor: In the commotion, Louis dropped his 5 GPT trade to us. He has 8 GPT up for grabs, but we have nothing to give to him for it

Worker Task Leader: Perhaps the New Amsterdam Galleon 2 can spare Piscatorium a Worker, to connect up that Silver

REAL saved game

 

[Cactus Pete]

Well, some breaks going our way. Hope that becomes the pattern.

Be 12 hours before I can get back. Will try to put some time in then, if Folket isn't back or someone else doesn't step up.

 

[Folket]

Hello!

Because of an allergic reaction I'm back sooner then expected.

We are still looking strong. A third war against Elizabeth sounds like a really bad idea. Either we want her to have population otherwise having her as a voting buddy is useless. Or we just want her cities. We could keep her around with 1 city in case we want to moderate our voting power by gifting her cities.

We can't plan against every single mistake. I do not see how we can reasonable loose Mali as a voting buddy. We will change back to Free religion after the golden age to speed up our research. We should be able to build the four needed missionaries before the golden age is over. Let us keep the war with Elizabeth to farm her boats. Just 2 more boats needed.

Or we can just make cease fire with Elizabeth now and kill two Zulu boats. I like this option as it allows us to grow our capital more and really crank out that science.

Micro suggestions. Move Galleon 8 so he can chain Chariot 1 to Queen Elizabeth.

I'm not wild about The Hague being empty. If Shaka demands 1000 gold we have to turn him down and he could declare immediately. Perhaps we can but 1 turn of hammers into a defender so we can whip it if we turn down a demand from Shaka. I guess we have 6 turns before we are in danger.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

A third war against Elizabeth sounds like a really bad idea. Either we want her to have population otherwise having her as a voting buddy is useless. Or we just want her cities. We could keep her around with 1 city in case we want to moderate our voting power by gifting her cities.

Catherine is totally off of the table as a voting buddy. Mao is possible, but might not work if he aggressively settles a lot.

Elizabeth is completely possible and doesn't take that much effort.

We want both: Elizabeth as a voting buddy and her Cities.

First, we get her as a voting buddy through 2 sets of Liberations.

Then, we declare war again and keep her Cities, but she'll still love us thanks to having Liberated Cities back to her twice.

Near the end of the game, when a single City can hardly offer much value anymore, we can gift her a couple of Hindu Cities which also have Confucianism in them, and while she's in Free Religion.

In this way, we get her as a voting buddy and we get to make use of her Cities.

I do not see how we can reasonable loose Mali as a voting buddy.

Mansa loves to Request techs. What would you have us do if he Requests Communism next turn? He has Stone and he's in a Golden Age. We'd have to refuse, as we need The Kremlin for our end-game Whipping.


He might get involved in a war that we can't bribe him out of and then we might have to refuse to join his war. Him being technologically advanced makes him more prone to going to war.


Mansa could develop a Worst Enemy (we're lucky right now that he doesn't have one) with whom we'd probably refuse to stop trading.


Friendly AIs don't always vote for you. I like to be 2 Diplo points above Friendly just to be safe.


But, really, all that he needs to do to royally mess us up is to switch out of Free Religion and into Organized Religion, build a couple of Hindu Missionaries, and then switch into Hinduism as a State Religion himself.

We need SOMEONE to vote for us in order to win via an AP Victory vote. It's a requirement of an AP Victory, as you need 75% of the votes, but cannot have 75% of all votes yourself. The AI who is running Hinduism as their State Religion and who has the most Hindu votes will not vote for us, and that AI will vote for themselves.

It's not just a backup, it's planning for success.

We should be able to build the four needed missionaries before the golden age is over.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about Hindu Missionaries?

1. You can't have 4 of the same type of Missionary existing at once
2. As many as 1000 Missionaries could fail to spread in Marble with really bad luck, as you don't get 100% odds of successful spreading once another Religion exists inside of a City
3. The Hague has a Jewish Monastery, so as long as we don't let Shaka capture The Hague, we don't need to be in Organized Religion to build Hindu Missionaries

I don't see any reason to rush to pump out the Hindu Missionaries right now, unless we're Whipping one from one of Elizabeth's Cities that we'll soon Liberate back to her.

In fact, during Organized Religion, The Hague might want to pump out a Barracks and a Library, and perhaps even an Odeon.

Let us keep the war with Elizabeth to farm her boats. Just 2 more boats needed.

Let me make the Liberation process very clear to you.
1. We capture all of the Cities of Elizabeth's that we need to capture. The last one will probably be captured on T152
2. Prior to that turn, we load Military Units onto our Galleons and place our Galleons on Ocean squares that do not have coins on them when you have squares' yields turned on (Ctrl + y)
3. On that turn, if Mansa is not Pleased toward Elizabeth, we Cease Fire with Elizabeth. We do not mess around with Peace Treaties, we do not ask her to give us Divine Right, and we simply take a Cease Fire
4. We talk with Elizabeth and Liberate all of her Cities back to her
5. Before the turn is over, we declare war on Elizabeth because Mansa is not Pleased toward he, otherwise we would not have Cease Fired in the first place
6. We amphibiously capture Elizabeth's Cities using a non-Catapult until from a boat for each of her Cities. With careful planning, the same boat can manually unload 1 Military Unit from beside one City and manually move that single Military Unit into the City (do not move the boat onto the same square as the City or this multi-City approach won't work) and then we can do the same thing for a second City using the same boat

7. We then get our Military Units back on boats
8. When Elizabeth is willing to talk with us, we confirm that Mansa is not Pleased toward her, and then we repeat steps 1 through 6

Her Cities have been Liberated to her twice, so she will love us forever, and yet we own all of her Cities.

Obviously, during either the second or the third war, she gets to keep Queen's Palace, while we keep Warwick

9. Once we Cease Fire with Elizabeth the third time, we can Open Borders with her and gift her a City Defender or two in Queen's Palace

If you notice, we're at war with Elizabeth on every turn during this entire process, so there is no concept of "not being able to attack her boats." We can and will be able to attack her boats on any turn throughout this whole process.

But, we might temporarily take a break from attacking boats so that the QE Galleon and Galleon 7 can help with steps 2. and 6.

Micro suggestions. Move Galleon 8 so he can chain Chariot 1 to Queen Elizabeth.

There's no need to do so. The QE Galleon can move into Coventry and can take Subutai aboard. The QE Galleon can then stay inside of Coventry on T151. When we Cease Fire on T152, the QE Galleon can move NE + NE before we Cease Fire and then the QE Galleon can be used to amphibiously recapture Coventry

Since Promoting a unit heals half of that unit's wounds immediately, a player first Promotes a unit and then heals that unit. By Promoting to Combat I on T151, the QE Galleon will be at full health on T152. If, after dropping off Subutai to amphibiously recapture Coventry, there are any of Elizabeth's boats in range, the QE Galleon can also attack a boat that turn, or can at least get closer to one for a T153 attack at full health.

I'm not wild about The Hague being empty. If Shaka demands 1000 gold we have to turn him down and he could declare immediately.

We Demanded Tribute. That fact enforces 10 turns of Peace on either side. We have 6 turns remaining where neither side can declare war.

Besides, AIs are limited to how much they can Demand and about 180 Gold is the max that we'd see in a Demand.

There is a way to force a war status, but that's via the Apostolic Palace, and it will only work if we are a non-Member.

So, there's nothing to worry about for 6 turns.


With us capturing Queen's Palace on T152 and loading both Spearmen (assuming that they both survive) onto the William Galleon on T152 (the William Galleon can enter the City of Queen's Palace to load the Spearman who captured the Size 2 City), we have a lot of time to drop off a Spearman near The Hague.


We don't want to take forever with this process. The longer that we wait, the greater the chance that either Mansa will take a Peace Treaty with Elizabeth, which complicates things, as it means us going into Pacifism and bribing Mansa into Pacifism, and bribing Elizabeth into Confucianism if she doesn't switch herself, so that Mansa won't like Elizabeth, and only then Cease Firing and Liberating Cities. Or, the longer that we wait, Mansa could end up actually sending some troops to Elizabeth.


Remember, no giving our World Map to any AI, even if it was Demanded/Requested.

Because of an allergic reaction I'm back sooner then expected.

I don't know if that's good or bad news, or perhaps a mix of both, but I hope that you will feel better soon!

 

[Dhoomstriker]

So, what are some of the bigger-picture items that we need to take care of in the short term and then what are the related details?

Let me just list them in no particular order, as I think of them:

1. Confucianism in Hippos
We're building a Confucian Missionary in Surfin' Turf, since Surfin' Turf is close to Hippos. If we fail to spread Confucianism, we'll need another Confucian Missionary, probably also from Surfin' Turf. So, we could proactively build a second Confucian Missionary out of Surfin' Turf and if the first one spreads successfully, the second one can get used in The Hague

As a high priority, as soon as Hippos gets Confucianism, try to Chop the Forest that is NW + NW of the City. In preparation for doing so, a Worker from the Surfin' Turf after can move to the G Riv Farm that is 1N of Hippos and can start to build a Watermill there until Confucianism gets spread in Hippos.


2. Buildings, The Taj Mahal, and Artist Specialists in Utrecht
We'll want a Theatre, an Odeon, and The Taj Mahal in Utrecht

We'll want to complete The Taj Mahal within 11 turns so that we'll get a free Golden Age turn

We have competing goals of growing the City to be able to work more Mines while hiring more Specialists versus simply working Mines and hiring Specialists in the short term

I'd say that we can aim to grow to Size 10 and then hire 2 Artists Specialists alongside of the Engineer Specialist

Let's say that we complete the Watermill that is 1E of the City, to have something nice for our 10th citizen to do

After that, we can Chop these Forests into The Taj Mahal:
SE + SE
SE + E + E
(Do not Chop SE + E + E + E... we can save it for a partial Granary in a new City)
E + E + E
NE + E + E
NE + NE
(Do not Chop NE + NE + E... we can save it for a partial Granary in a different new City)
NE + NE + N (even though it is outside of our Cultural Borders)
NE + N + N
(Do not Chop SE + SE + SE, as that Forest is for Hippos once Hippos has Confucianism in it)


3. Great People

It would be ideal if we got our 700-GPP Great Person from Utrecht

That way, we could also try for a 900-GPP Great Person out of Utrecht, since we have The National Epic in Utrecht

Also, ideally, we would get a Great Engineer out of Utrecht. If we instead got a Great Artist, then it might become really challenging to get a useful 900-GPP Great Person out of Utrecht, so if we get a Great Artist, we may just scrap the plan of going for a 900-GPP Great Person

If we did get a Great Engineer and we later got a 900-GPP Great Artist, we could then use the Great Engineer for a Wonder (say, for Isabella) and then have 3 Great People of different types: Great Scientist (from Physics), Great Artist (900-GPP), and one of Great Engineer/Great Prophet (from Piscatorium) for yet another Golden Age


4. We're running Organized Religion

Wealth is a good build item, but we might not be in Organized Religion forever. In fact, going back into Free Religion will probably help us the best with our teching goals

So, if there's a Building that we could use, now might be a good time to build it

Examples include all of these cheap Buildings that provide useful things (Flasks or Happiness):
Libraries
Universities
Theatres
Odeons

Barracks in Cities such as The Hague (for building Maces) and Piscatorium (for buliding The Heroic Epic for Failure Gold)

Lighthouses
MAYBE Forges
MAYBE Harbours
POSSIBLY a Customs House in a City with a decent amount of Commerce that already has a University


5. Settler and Workers by Mansa
The Workers move first...
Worker 5 can move 1SW Des to complete the partial Road
Worker 6 can then move along that Road, moving 1SW, 1W and can complete that partial Road
The Settler can then move along the Roads to settle on the Coast 1N of the Oil and 3E of All Hail Astro!
Give the City a fun name
Liberate (aka gift on the trading screen) the City to Mansa
Galleon 1 can wait 1SW of the City for the Workers to board it


6. Elizabeth

We can't capture Elizabeth's City of Queen's Palace until it reaches Size 2

That should happen on T151 if she doesn't switch into Confucianism, but is likely going to happen on T152, since AIs pretty much always switch State Religions when they lose all Cities with their existing State Religion and they have a City with a different Religion in it

That fact means that we should be using T150 and T151 to get non-Catapult units onto boats and then get those boats into position so that we can amphibiously assault all 6 of Elizabeth's original 6 Cities on T152, assuming that Mansa still is not Pleased toward Elizabeth.

When we have time, we can also drop off troops by Warwick to capture that City.

Then, we repeat the process.

Alternatively, we plan to amphibiously recapture Queen's Palace on T152, so that we can repeat the process even sooner, and only in the third war capture Warwick but not capture Queen's Palace.


7. Stone City

I would suggest that settle the City on T151, when we finally finish Forting the Stone and will be starting to build The Kremlin

After Forting the Stone, we can build Plantations on the Incense Resources, as well as a Road on the second Incense Resource

Once we have the first Plantation up, we can probably work that square with the Stone City citizen while building Wealth in the City

Then, we can Road and Fort the Oil Resource... I am not sure if we should fully finish the Fort... maybe leave it 1 turn away from completion, as I believe that having Oil connected means Unhealthiness in every City, but I could be wrong


8. War Weariness

I'm afraid that we're just going to have to suffer through it in the short term.

We will get +2 Happiness once Galleon 2 (near Isabella's City of Murcia) drops off 1 or 2 Workers on our Silver Resource at Piscatorium and we Road that square

But, prior to that time, I think that we'll just have to Whip the Confucian Temple in X-ops. It's not a terrible thing, as part of those Hammers will go toward completing our Customs House, and the Temple provides +1 Happiness, +2 base Flasks, and +2 base Gold

It's probably worth sending both Workers from Galleon 2 to the Silver Resource, just to get it connected one turn sooner, so that more Cities will be able to benefit by growing

Do not forget that +1 population can sometimes equal 2 Unhappiness, so be careful when growing a City that only has 1 extra Happiness point while we are involved in a war

At least now that London has fallen, we won't get doubled War Weariness. But, be smart about it... once we Liberate London back to Elizabeth, don't attack boats on that turn until after we've recaptured her Cities


9. Hippos' Forge
I would be fine either with us Whipping Hippos' Forge or with us finishing it manually

If we do whip it, just make sure that the citizen which we whip away is the citizen working the Coast, not a citizen working a Hammer-producing square. We want to be wokring all of our Hammer-producing squares


10. Example Boat
Galleon 6 exists 1W of London

It could take 2 War Elephants aboard on T150 and then sail southward.

If Galleon 6 ends its turn SW + SW of Nottingham on T152, when we're at step 6. of the process described in Message #1128, we can move Galleon 6 1NE to sit 1SW of Nottingham. We then manually select a War Elephant and move that War Elephant into Nottingham to recapture Notthingham. We then move Galleon 6 to the square 1SW of York. Since the Galleon is now out of movement points, we have to remember to manually select the other War Elephant on the Galleon and manually move that War Elephant into York.

Now we've recaptured 2 of the 6 Cities. I leave the details of the other 4 Cities to whoever is playing


11. But, York could Whip a Maceman, but Hastings could whip a Knight, etc
While true, if we wait any longer than T152, we risk Mansa growing tired of the war, which then makes us have to place a dancing game of musical Religious Civics, going into Pacifism but not when we're Chopping, dragging Mansa into Pacifism, and trying to drag Elizabeth into Confucianism if she isn't already in it.

Nothing is perfect.

We razed Amsterdam and we were much better for it. Try to feel the same way about Elizabeth's population points. Her Cities will regrow, as her Cities have great Food Resources. Don't worry about not making perfect use out of the population points in the short term.

But, yes, we can at least whip the Spearman in Canterbury on T150 and the Settler in Nottingham on T151. That Settler is meant for Mao


12. Settling at Mao
Galleon 5 can unload 2 Workers on the Tundra For that is 1E of Hun and the Workers can Chop that Forest. The Worker inside of Hun can move 1NE and Chop that Forest, later finished off with help from one of the other 2 Workers. The Chops will go into a Settler, which we will 2-pop-whip. AS SOON AS that Settler exists, we talk with Mao and give him Hun. Otherwise, he may not give us Liberation credit, given how he wouldn't give us Liberation credit for Marble City at 6 Culture

Crossbowman 1 can move into Hun on T150

On T151, Crossbowman 1 and WE 9 can board Galleon 5

Galleon 4 (near Stone City) can form a Galleon chain with Galleon 5. A Galleon chain means that on a turn where Galleon 5, when coming southward, will end up with 0 movement points, Galleon 4 should already be waiting on that square with full movement points

HA 1 can Pillage the G Riv Cot that is 1NW of Hun and then can escort our Settler

The first Settler I would send to the Ice Hills For that is NE + E + E of Hun. That's a good spot for ensuring that we can settle multiple gift Cities in the area for Mao as it's a crappy spot and it blocks off other good spots, meaning that he's less likely to settle the other spots on his own, which leaves us more time to settle and Liberate Cities at the other spots in the area (SE + SE + S of that City, SW + S + S of that City, and NW + N + N of that City)


13. Piscatorium

Build a Hindu Temple there if Hinduism spreads successfully on T151

We might not immediately hire the third Priest Specialist, as we want to let Utrecht generate the 700-GPP Great Person, but once Utrecht has generated the 700-GPP Great Person, Piscatorium should be ready to hire as many Priests as it needs to quickly get the 800-GPP Great Person


14. New Amsterdam

Build and whip a Buddhist Missionary for Piscatorium.

But, first build and whip a Forge in New Amsterdam, now that we're back in Organized Religion and are in State Property for extra Whipping Hammers

There is no major rush to get a 3rd and 4th Temple completed in Piscatorium... we just want them completed reasonably soon so that we can hire extra Priest Specialists after Utrecht generates the 700-GPP Great Person

 

[Dhoomstriker]

I'm assuming that one of Folket or CP is going to play the next turnset. I tried to provide as much high-level feedback as possible.

If a more-detailed plan is needed, please say so, but hopefully I've given you enough info to work with.

 

[Folket]

A friendly AI will vote on you unless it votes on itself, it's feudal master or someone it likes more. We are at +13 and can afford to go down to +9. +8 including hidden modifiers will make the AI vote on you.

We only loose 4 turn or something by liberating twice and it won't make us loose more units so it should be fine either way.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"Near the end of the game, when a single City can hardly offer much value anymore, we can gift her a couple of Hindu Cities which also have Confucianism in them, and while she's in Free Religion.

In this way, we get her as a voting buddy and we get to make use of her Cities." E no longer has any Hindu cities, so it's my understanding that she is presently useless as a voting buddy. Are we planning to eventually gift those Hindu cities back to her because they would put us above a 75% self vote and we, in essence, need her to vote those for us?

Would be pleased if Folket picks up, but can step in if he can't.

 

[Folket]

ok then, I can produce a PPP within a couple of hours.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

We're going to give away most of the Hindu Cities near the end of the game:
Marble to Mao
Stone to Louis
Bethlehem to Isabella
A settled City for Toku
Likely a settled City for Catherine on the island to the east of Toku

At that time, we can capture Shaka's last City, uMgungundlovu, which we had let him keep because:
i. It's pretty junky
ii. If we keep it, it means less Forests going to Nongoma, which could potentially save all of those Forests for a Wonder
iii. Shaka remaining as a Hindu at war with us will mean that we always have an AP Resolution available, so that the AP Resolution cycle becomes consistent

As to point ii., his City might still have too much Culture in it, so we might later play around with razing uMgungundlovu while Shaka still has a different Hindu City, resettling a Hindu City 1NW of there, letting it grow to Size 2, then allowing Shaka to capture it or perhaps simply Cease Firing and gifting it to him as soon as we found the City, if no one is Pleased or Friendly toward Shaka at the time so that we can easily redeclare war on Shaka.

The idea being that we have a deeply-buried inland (not island) City of his that no AI will be able to sneak attack... so, we can have war allies against Shaka who can't do anything to him, and as long as no one ever buy's Shaka's World Map and as long as we never give out our World Map, no AI Caravel exploration will ever reveal his City's Centre square, meaning that we can have advanced AIs share a fake war with us and probably never attack Shaka, at least not until Aircraft Carriers are around.

Even if I'm wrong and an AI would drop off troops, we'd have advance warning of such a possibility.


Some other details that I might not have mentioned or that are important enough to mention again:
I'd probably finish the G Riv Watermill 1E of Utrecht (replacing the Cottage) before Chopping at Utrecht, since Chops won't finish off The Taj Mahal (I listed which squares to Chop above), which can give us more base Hammers per turn going into The Taj Mahal when we're at Size 10 with 1 Engineer, 2 Artists, and Hammer-earning squares being worked

I would not whip the Maceman in York and I would just let the invested Hammers disappear when we Liberate the City... but, remember that we only perform the Cease Fire and Liberation process if Mansa is not Pleased toward Elizabeth, as we don't want to anger Mansa when we don't have to

Once Marble City produces a Confucian Missionary (we might as well plan to Whip the first one when we're about to grow Marble City to Size 3), we can experiment with the first one by moving the Confucian Missionary into Xian (a City to the west of Marble City) and seeing what Mao does with it... if he spreads Confucianism in Xian or perhaps one of his biggest Cities, such as Beijing or Shanghai, then a Confucian-Missionary-gifting technique can be used to cut down on our Unit Supply costs.

For the second Missionary, we can send it to on of Louis' Cities on the same continent, such that we will later always have 1 Missionary walking toward Louis' Cities, 1 Missionary that we'll quickly gift to Mao, and another Missionary being built, to maximize Confucian-Missionary production

If we want their techs, it would be nice to have a way to get them up to Friendly status, and a bit of Religion bonus, even if only temporarily used from time to time, could be of help.

It might end up not helping if we remain in Free Religion, but with a hopeful later 3-Great-Person Golden Age, we might have the chance to be back in Confucianism.

It's hard to say right now, but it's not like the Marble Forests really would be put to better use... the City is pretty junky, so no point in Chopping out a Granary and a Lighthouse, for example.

Crossbowman 1 and War Elephant 9 from the Hun area are meant to be sent down to Phyrgian, the Barb City near Louis.

Once we've captured Elizabeth's Cities the third time, we might be able to send another Galleon of troops to help capture the City, then immediately Liberate it to Louis.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Do we want to consider building the Hermitage National Wonder for Failure Gold? We could start building it this turn in one City every turn

We would eventually have to complete the Wonder, but as long as we double the Hammers invested in that Wonder, we will have drawn equal with building Wealth over time, and then every other amount of additional Hammers going into that Wonder will earn us extra Failure Gold than we would have earned if we were only building Wealth

This fact applies even more during our period of Organized Religion, as Wealth builds do not benefit from Organized Religion Hammers, but Failure Gold builds do benefit from Organized Religion Hammers


I'd still love to see a high-Hammer City such as Piscatorium completing a Barracks and then building The Heroic Epic almost to completion. High-Hammer Cities are great spots for earning Failure Gold as we can earn the same amount of Failure Gold in a shorter period of time

City 4 would be another good example for a Barracks and The Heroic Epic Failure Gold

 

[Dhoomstriker]

We're going to want to send the Settler built in City 4 to Mao. Perhaps Galleon 2, who can drop off 2 Workers on Piscatorium's Silver, can wait for the Workers to finish the Road and then can transport the Workers into New Amsterdam, where the Workers can build Watermills.

We can load the City 4 Settler into our New Amsterdam Galleon and then can set sail for Mao's area

By then, we might already have our 3rd war with Elizabeth set up (as long as Mansa isn't Pleased toward Elizabeth, it should be possible), so one of the Elizabeth Galleons might be able to help out with 1 turn of transportation using a temporary Galleon chain


In terms of the order of Liberating Cities, we can start with the Cities in the east, such as Coventry and Canterbury, then work our way westward

Then, all of our Military Units and our 1 Worker at Elizabeth should get teleported to the Queen's Palace island

Then, we Liberate Queen's Palace and our Military Units should get teleported to our nearby Cultural Borders, perhaps even right next to Warwick

 

[Dhoomstriker]

"Near the end of the game, when a single City can hardly offer much value anymore, we can gift her a couple of Hindu Cities which also have Confucianism in them, and while she's in Free Religion.

In this way, we get her as a voting buddy and we get to make use of her Cities." E no longer has any Hindu cities, so it's my understanding that she is presently useless as a voting buddy. Are we planning to eventually gift those Hindu cities back to her because they would put us above a 75% self vote and we, in essence, need her to vote those for us?

Yes, we can gift Elizabeth some Cities near the end to give her Hinduism, just like we will be gifting Cities to the other AIs at the end to also make them have Hinduism.

The biggest difference is that we'll whip down the gift Cities for other AIs down to Size 1, while we can gift larger-sized Cities to Elizabeth.

Assuming that we control, say, 60% of the votes, Mansa controls 16%, Elizabeth controls 16%, and the other AIs control the remaining few percentage points, we would only need to rely on one out of Mansa or Elizabeth voting us to victory in order to get the needed 75% of the votes to win (where all 75% cannot come from us).


We do NEED 1 AI voting for us. I think that the small amount of effort that we have to put in now to secure Elizabeth as a voting buddy is going to be a worthwhile investment. There is no backup option to an AP Victory for winning the game. We're committed. So, let's make sure that we land an AP Victory and having 2 voting buddies can help us to accommodate for all sorts of bad possible situations that might arise.

The worst thing that could happen is that someone clicks on Mansa's name in the Scoreboard while that person accidentally has the Alt key pressed down or perhaps it was just stuck down but didn't look like it (food or drinks spilled on the keyboard can do that). Doing so would mean an instant war declaration with no way to cancel it, and no prompting message asking if we really want to declare war, and we'd never get Mansa as a voting buddy after that. That's one reason why I suggest a slightly-more-annoying way of talking to an AI: First, open up an F4 screen, then right-click on the AI's picture. There's no way to accidentally declare war on an AI this way without getting a prompt to cancel the action.

We shouldn't plan for mistakes to happen, but it's wise to have mistake-tolerant plans.

 

[Cactus Pete]

ok then, I can produce a PPP within a couple of hours.

Good to hear. Will try to comment in a timely manner.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

Also, on T152, assuming that Mansa isn't Pleased toward with Elizabeth and we're ready to execute the Cease Fire + Liberation + City-recapturing plan, we might want to cancel our sale of Corn to Shaka on that turn.

We only have 1 Corn of our own and it would be unfortunate for the Corn which is going to Mao being the trade that gets cancelled. I'm not sure how the game determines which trade to cancel, but we don't mind losing 4 GPT for a couple of turns, but we will mind losing our Wine Resource, especially if Mao decided to trade it to someone else in between turns.

Thus, if our plan is ready to go on T152, we should add the cancelling of this trade to our list of tasks to perform on T152:
Cancel this trade:
4 GPT from Shaka <-> Corn


We are also selling Spice to Isabella, but since Spice exists in Nottingham, we'll get the Spice back on the same turn that we lose it, so our trade with her of:
Dye from Isabella <-> Nottingham's Spice

will not get cancelled and we shouldn't even have to think about that trade.


There are no other trades that we're making with Elizabeth's Resources.

 

[Dhoomstriker]

We can also pick a City in which to build The Taj Mahal for Failure Gold on T150, since Utrecht is going to complete its Theatre before starting on The Taj Mahal.


Cities which are bad choices for Failure Gold: any City that we will be gifting away at some point, such as Bethlehem, Elizabeth's Cities in the short term, Marble, Stone, etc.

Failure Gold will only work as a build item if we are 100% certain that we will never give away the City before earning the Failure Gold.