SGOTM 21 - Xteam

Slow is good. I think that most players on this team play more slowly than the average. The write-ups help the Active Player a lot... the Advisors really know what they're talking about most of the time, and you just need the patience to carefully listen to what they're trying to tell you at the back of your mind.

I want to stop this turn anyway, as:
1. We need to stop and make a saved game, in order to perform an Elizabeth gift, and I'd like extra clarification that we've named our boat properly (is calling it "Queen Elizabeth" going to work?)
2. We should seriously consider declaring war on Shaka this turn or next turn. Next turn would be more convenient in terms of where our forces are located... there's a War Elephant on his way to defending Utrecht, there are some empty Galleons that are heading toward Shaka's City of kawDukuza (south-west of Queen's Palace) where Shaka has most of his navy, and we'll be able to drop off more troops by Ulundi if we wait a turn to declare war

But, we could also go in this turn and still make it work, I believe.
 
@BSPollux

Elizabeth Task Pre-gift Screenshot
Spoiler :


Can we please get some confirmation that:
1. We don't need to actually select the Promotions, as the Galleon clearly has 50 XP
AND
2. That we have named the boat appropriately

Based on what you said earlier, this gift does not have to happen inside of Elizabeth's capital, but let us know if you want it to happen that way and we can make it happen.
 
Don't see a save for our present position, so hard to comment on when to start war, but my experience is that waiting a turn to have more units available is usually wise. Is it correct that units on ships do not trigger whipping inside threatened city in BtS?
 
Don't see a save for our present position
Link to the REAL saved game


but my experience is that waiting a turn to have more units available is usually wise.
We can certainly wait until next turn. It would be nice to have a Galleon be able to wait outside of Shaka's north-west City on the turn when the war is declared, and we can't quite reach there yet. Often, putting a boat with higher strength than the AI boats in port can "trap" the AI's boats in port, due to their fear of leaving being checked in terms of individual strengths between their boat and our boat.


Is it correct that units on ships do not trigger whipping inside threatened city in BtS?
That is correct.

But, it's Shaka. He whips for fun, he whips in the dark, he whips behind closed doors, he whips away his population, and he probably even whips himself. ;)
 
If I am needed, it would certainly be helpful to have a listing of city sites to be settled and missionaries to be built and where they need to go to convert the heathens.
Liberations for Mao
What we've learned is that a Barb Unit, such a as a Barb Galley, being SW + S of a City can cause that City to not be Liberateable.

That fact is bad, as we'd ideally like to Liberate 2 Cities to Mao next turn. One City location, 4E of Marble City, can be settled after we Chop the Forest that is 3E of Marble.

We shouldn't have any troubles with this Liberation, as we just killed the nearby Barb Galley.


Testing shows that as soon as I place a Barb Galley using the World Builder, as long as that Barb Galley exists in a City's big fat cross, that City cannot be Liberated.

A Barb Galley being 3 squares away does not affect the Liberation.

A Barb Galley being 2 squares away diagonally from the City does not affect Liberation. To me, that's weird, but I suppose that they just re-used the big-fat-cross code. Of course, I also find it weird that an empty Barb Galley would prevent Liberating in the first place, but there you have it.


So, despite what the in-game signs that I wrote say, we should probably use our Horse Archer 1 to scout 1NE on T159, on behalf of our Settler 18 (Hun).

Ideally, next turn, we'll Liberate the City that Settler 18 founds next turn. There are no land-based Barbs, but just like at the southern end of our continent, there could be Barb Galleys.

Galleon 5 could head northward this turn in case of a Barb Galley.

But, using this big-fat-cross knowledge, and scouting from HA 1, we might not need Galleon 5.

Or, there might be 3 Barb Galleys up there and we'll want Galleon 5 to pick up the Settler and drop it off on the coast to the south-east.

Anyway, valid locations for settling are:
i. "in place," on the Ice Hills Silver
ii. 1N on the Ice (SW + S of the Whale)
iii. 1E on the Ice ( SW + W of the Fish)
iv. 1NE on the Ice (2S of the Whale)

Whichever location is reveled by our HA 1 not to have any Barb units within that City's big fat cross is a spot that we can get used for settling and then immediately Liberating the City to Mao. If there are no Barb units, then we could simply settle "in place" on the Silver, giving Mao access to one of his Silver Resources.


+2 Liberations will give us +3 Diplo, which puts us 1 shy of Friendly. So, we can try try to trade Mao up to Communism and/or try to get +1 for giving him techs.



Hindu Missionary 4 (NE + N of Marble City) should get spread in Marble City.


Caravel 1 (1W of Queen's Palace) has Hindu Missionary 6 aboard, which can be sent to the units by Phrygian.

Over time, when WE 9 heals, it can attack Phyrgian, while our Crossbowman 1 simply acts as a defender for our WE 9, as the Crossbowman 1 doesn't have great odds of winning (75% isn't great when you can't afford to lose a unit).

Then, when we capture Phrygian, we can spread Hinduism in the City and we can keep the City for an end-game Hindu gift City to Louis, so that we can keep Stone City and its Oil Resource plus its two Incense Resources right until the end of the game.



After we've built The Kremlin, we'll want to whip a couple of Galleons and a couple of Settlers, then send 2 Settlers toward the area to the north-east of Japan. If we can settle a City within range* of one of Catherine's Cities, great. After that, find an open space to settle a City for Toku.

* A City needs to be within 9.5 distance of an existing City, where 1.5 = diagonals and 1 = horizontals or verticals. Obviously, count the diagonal distance first, counting from the nearest City of a given Leader (Catherine, in this case).


We also have a Hindu Missionary that is waiting around at New Amsterdam, and it could go with the first 2 Settlers. Later, we'd send another Hindu Missionary, probably with a partial Galleon chain.


As soon as an AI gets Hinduism, that AI will meet all other AIs who know Hinduism, so we should probably wait until near the end of the game to give those Cities to the AIs. But, we should probably do so in the last, say, 8 to 10 turns of the game, just in case an AI decides not to accept a gift, so that we still will have time to do something about the situation, such as chaining a Hindu Missionary to be gifted to that AI or to be spread by us in their City if that AI isn't running Theocracy at the time.


Once we build an Airship, we'll be able to send it into one of Catherine's or Toku's Cities, and then it can perform a Recon mission to scout the nearby area to see where there are existing spots for placing Settlers. Since we cannot buy the World Map of either Toku or Catherine, until we get an Airship up there (I haven't pick a City in which to build one yet... we should pick such a City), then it's hard to suggest exactly where such a City would get settled.

But, we'll have time to do a Recon mission once a Galleon gets close to the area with 2 Settlers and a Hindu Missionary on board.

Before then, an Airship might be best used in helping out with killing the Barb Galleys that Shaka has lured our way near Surfin' Turf, or used to attack one of Shaka's units per turn.
 
@CP: I'm fine if you play, but I'm too tired to throw a detailed plan together right now. The best that I can offer are some off-of-the-top-of-my-head thoughts:

Before we gift the QE Galleon, we could first shuttle over Spearman 11 (from Warwick) to her (unload Spearman 11 inside of Queen's Palace), then gift Elizabeth the QE Galleon and gift her Spearman 11.


I already mentioned my thoughts for the Settlers around Mao

Probably move Galleon 3 (1W of Bulawayo) to join Galleons 6 and 8, so the Cat can heal

Gift Philosophy + Scientific Method to Mao, then gift him more techs next turn, saving, say, Physics to trade to trade him for Gunpowder if a combination of Liberating 2 Cities that don't have Barb Units in their big fat crosses and gifting him techs will get him up to Friendly status.

Otherwise, we can dump Flasks into Electricity until we're able to get Communism in Mao's hands to bribe him into State Property to achieve Friendly status, if him taking our techs won't give us Friendly status.

Pick a City to build an Airship

Once we have The Kremlin, we can Whip the Heroic Epic in Gems, possibly in X-ops, and in Piscatorium, one City at a time whipping and then removing the build item from the build queue completely, then we can complete the Heroic Epic in Surfin' Turf, giving us the invested Hammers plus the whipped Hammers in each of the other 3 Cities.

City 4 could also put some Hammers into the Heroic Epic next turn after the Barracks has been completed, leaving X-ops probably to just build Wealth.


I'd probably also Sell Music to Toku for 40 Gold, Divine Right ot Shaka for 40 Gold, and Philosophy to Louis (if we're giving Philsophy to Mao, I suppose that Louis could get it in trade at any time, as they are Friendly-Friendly with each other, even in opposing State Religions).


WE 6 can stay on Galleon 6
Spearman 6 can stay on William

The other units can probably unload 1NW of Ulundi, where it won't be too far for them to reach Bulawayo next.

Once we have captured Ulundi, Shaka will likely just spam Horse Archers, Cats, and Longbowmen, which are all things that are much easier to handle than are Impis and Maces.


Our Galleon at Surfin' Turf can probably first guard our Crab and then only go for the Barb Galleys when we either have an Airship attacking them or they are far enough away from the Crab to not Pillage it if we kill 1 Barb Galley but then have to retreat to heal.


We're done with City Liberations to Elizabeth. She hates Shaka, so if she asks us to stop trading with him, we can, as we'll declare war on him next turn. Otherwise, once we're in a war with Shaka, Elizabeth will be unlikely to give us any annoying requests that could reduce her Attitude toward us.


Since we're selling Philosophy to Louis and giving it away to Mao, we could also gift/sell Philosophy + Liberalism to Elizabeth, to get her into Free Religion pretty soon


I suppose that Piscatorium could be the spot where we build an Airship, since it can fly away from the island without needing a Galleon.

Remember that we'll eventually need 4 Airships, so building some is not a waste.


Ideally, we'll get Gunpowder from Mao and then will be able to tech Rifling, but otherwise we delay doing so until Mao is in State Property, after having tried gifting him techs and Liberating 2 Cities to him, temporarily switching Research to Electricity
 

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I'm not sure how far you're going to play, but once we get Gunpowder from Mao and then learn Rifling, we can switch back into Hereditary Rule and into Nationhood, then start Drafting Riflemen.

Drafting works in Cities where we have 10% Cultural presence and 6 or more population points, giving us 3 Unhappiness but turning 1 population point into a Rifleman (far more efficient on Hammers than Whipping).

We can Draft 3 Riflemen per turn for a total of 15 over 5 turns before we should switch back into Bureaucracy (but probably stay in Hereditary Rule for the extra Happiness).

We only need 12 Gunpowder units, so Drafting 15 of them is a decent approach, as then we can afford a couple of battle losses.


Once we get our Great Person in Utrecht, we might as well keep the Specialists hired there, and plan to do zero Drafting or Whipping in Utrecht, so that we can try for an additional Great Person.


Once Mansa offers Corporation in trade, don't take the trade. We can get it later when we need it, but as soon as we get it, The Great Lighthouse will become obsolete, so it will be a net loss to our economy to take that tech.
 
Played just 'til the end of 159, and RL intervened.

IBT:
We win AP election. (Will I need to select a resolution next turn?)
Deer Hunter (N of Marble) taken by barbs (but still able to liberate two cities to MAO).
Confu spreads to Marseilles.

T159:
Declare and land units in Shaka'a territory.

Questions:
How to get Mao to trade Gunpowder when we are already getting +4 for our trade relations?
Sorry but still not clear how this cultural build business works in London and Nottingham.

Save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=393506&stc=1&d=1430871811


Can continue in about 3 hours.
 

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We win AP election. (Will I need to select a resolution next turn?)
No. We will have to wait an additional 8 turns.

F8 -> MEMBERS screen should show you this text:
Turns until next Vote: 8


able to liberate two cities to MAO
Great! Now, we just need to get him into State Property or gift/sell him enough techs to get +1 Diplo with him for Sharing Our Technological Discoveries with him (you just have to sell a lot of techs to an AI to get that bonus... we're already at +4 with Mansa for that bonus), which should be enough to bring us to Friendly (if I'm right about the difference from Pleased to Friendly being 7, which I think that it is).


Confu spreads to Marseilles.
That's from the Missionary that we gifted to Louis. Will Louis show the option to convert to Confucianism?


Sorry but still not clear how this cultural build business works in London and Nottingham.
Okay, I'll take a look.
 
It seems that Mao is ALREADY Friendly toward us. Shared Mutual Military Struggle was enough!
So, you can make this trade:
Gunpowder + Gold + World Map from Mao <-> Replaceable Parts

You can also gift Liberalism to Mao

Next turn, you can then sell/gift Communism to Mao, since we'll have already built The Kremlin by then. State Property should help Mao with teching Chemistry for us.


After taking Gunpowder, we should immediately switch to teching Rifling


That's weird... Shaka's boats managed to dump Barb Galleys on us but Shaka's boats somehow got further to the west of the Barb Galleys.


With any luck, we'll beat Mao to recapturing Deer Hunter, but it probably won't be easy with him having a Maceman so closer to Deer Hunter.


London's Culture is being done perfectly. The point is that we'll get 10 or more Culture, so the tactic will work once we pass the first Cultural Border expansion at 10 Culture. After that, we can just build the Granary normally.


It seems that Elizabeth picked Great-General types of Promotions for her shiny new Galleon.


When we get a chance, if Galleon 2 isn't busy killing off Shaka's boats next turn, it would be nice to send the 2 Workers who are 1S of Warwick on Galleon 2, then unload them inside of Canterbury so that they can Mine the GH Iron that is NE + E of Canterbury, then do other Worker tasks in the area.


Remember that a unit with Amphibious Assault is just as strong as the equivalent Combat II unit on land, except that we don't have to spend turns unloading and reloading those units onto boats, giving them more time to heal between battles. But, for example, a Spearman is still a poor attacker against a defending Maceman or a defending Axeman, so we're unlikely to use Spearman 6 (on William) in the fight for Ulundi


I'm not sure how familiar you are with using Airships. They're pretty similar to Fighters, etc, in that you first send it to a City (I would pick The Hague) and then on future turns, if you can see your target (use our Spy to reveal Nobamba on T161), then the Airship can be used to attack a Military Unit


Where is Subutai running off to? He'll be useful to have near the Forests of Ondini, as he gets great odds when attacking Forested squares or when defending Forested squares


We probably didn't need to send 3 Workers to a pre-Chopped Forest (1SE of Jewels). ;) That said, if you can find a way to transfer some of those Workers over to Elizabeth's original continent, they will have plenty of Forests to share in terms of Chopping
 
Try to keep as many Workers alive as possible, though, as we're going to want a ton of them for the end game once Railroad comes in. Hence, shipping them off to Elizabeth's original area is also a way to keep some of them safe.

On that note, we could build a Road on the GH Mine that is SW + W of Surfin' Turf in preparation for making a later Railroad easier to build.


We could probably also Replaceable Parts to Mansa after selling it to Mao, to get Mansa's Gold.
 
Once we get Rifling, Subutai and Horatio, assuming that they are inside of our Cultural Borders at the time, can and should upgrade to Riflemen for free, since Great Generals attached to units make all upgrades for those units free.
 
If you're looking for Worker tasks, we have:
The Fort that is 3NW of Surfin' Turf to finish off, which we may use for Galleon-chaining Tanks

A Watermill on the G Riv SW + W + W of City 4 (NE + N of the Oil)
A Watermill on the G Riv SW + W + W + W of City 4 (2N of the Oil)
A G Riv Farrm NW + NW + W of Surfin' Turf

At some point soon, after we have The Kremlin, we can whip The Heroic Epic in multiple Cities (X-ops, Gems, Piscatorium, and City 4) then take it out of the build queue on the exact same turn after each whipping operation, then complete it inside of Surfin' Turf without Whipping it in Surfin' Turf. Be sure to rehire any whipped-away Engineer or Priest Specialists in Piscatorium.

We'll then earn MORE Failure Gold than the National Wonder is worth. This tactic might be a new one for the CFC forums.


Also, since we'll have less Failure Gold build items, we'll have more Cities needing things to do, so then we'll be able to Whip a few Settlers... one for 2W of our G Corn (NW + W + W of City), one for 4E of Utrecht, 1 for Toku, and 1 for Catherine... Triple Clam Island might also get a City


However, if a City has about 6 to 8 population points, be sure to Draft there a couple of times before Whipping

And, remember, no Whipping or Drafting in Utrecht, as it would be nice to get an extra Great Person, be it a Great Artist or a Great Engineer
 
Also, we want to be able to bribe Louis out of Mercantilism, so to do that, we should sell him Liberalism, then sell/gift him Communism next turn, then use Replaceable Parts to bribe him into State Property (if State Property shows up as an option and if it isn't coloured in red).
 
It seems that Mao is ALREADY Friendly toward us. Shared Mutual Military Struggle was enough!
Thought he was just Pleased when I looked.


That's weird... Shaka's boats managed to dump Barb Galleys on us but Shaka's boats somehow got further to the west of the Barb Galleys. Teleported when he declared war. I have some concern that the barb galleys are loaded.


London's Culture is being done perfectly. All skill. The point is that we'll get 10 or more Culture, so the tactic will work once we pass the first Cultural Border expansion at 10 Culture. After that, we can just build the Granary normally. That's so wrong, but think I've got it now.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with using Airships. They're pretty similar to Fighters, etc, in that you first send it to a City (I would pick The Hague) and then on future turns, if you can see your target (use our Spy to reveal Nobamba on T161), then the Airship can be used to attack a Military Unit May need to help with barb galleys first.


Where is Subutai running off to? He'll be useful to have near the Forests of Ondini, as he gets great odds when attacking Forested squares or when defending Forested squares If Shaka counterattacks in force with Impis (and axes and HAs) toward Hippos, we are undermanned, so moved him in that direction until I know what Shaka is up to.


We probably didn't need to send 3 Workers to a pre-Chopped Forest (1SE of Jewels). ;) Ah, yes. Not used to reading signs. That said, if you can find a way to transfer some of those Workers over to Elizabeth's original continent, they will have plenty of Forests to share in terms of Chopping
Should be able to do that.



Thanks for the good feedback. Playing . . .
 
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