SGOTM6 Celts. Maintenance Thread

[MOTH]

While you are looking at the modding, perhaps you could change naval movement to be the same in both versions as well? It would seem that differential movement in in PTW and 1.29 for flavor. I know that SGOTM4 would have played differently without it, so I would think if you have all 3 versions the same it should simplify playtesting.

 

[AlanH]

M-B tells me the Team Offa test sample I fixed yesteday seems to be OK, so I'm about to download the rest of the C3C files from the server and edit their coast and sea movement costs in the same way. Please do NOT download and play the current saves until I have reported back to say I have changed them. This only applies to C3C players.

When I've finished I'll upload them again and report back here to let you know that you can take them and continue your games. That will be take a little while as my ISP "upgraded" me from 512K ADSL to 33K modem access yesterday I hope to report back before the end of today, GMT.

When the files are restored to the server they will be ZIP files, as I have to expand the saves to edit them, and can only recompress them using ZIP format. This should have little effect on you, and once you have loaded and played them your future saves will be normal .SAV files again.

 

[AlanH]

@Barbslinger and Offa: Did M-B give you a fixed file? I created them, but he's off line, so I can't ask him if he passed them on. If you have them you can continue to play using them. If not then please wait for me to report.

I've broken the links to the latest C3C saves on the database, but obviously if you have already downloaded them you need to wait and download the new ones.

 

[klarius]

@Alan
No we have no fixed file in Team Offa.

@Moth
C3C and PtW/Vanilla are so different already that they are not comparable. We have different civ traits and a lot of other differences.
A small change like differential naval movement will not fix this.

 

[AlanH]

@Klarius: OK, I'll upload yours (and Barbslinger's) as soon as possible.

@MOTH: Klarius is correct. Just look at the graphs on the results page and you'll see that the C3C games are diverging already. Of course you may argue that they are being played better, but I think some of it may be due to the changes in C3C. We run two GOTM games each month instead of one exactly because of this scale of difference.

 

[AlanH]

I have uploaded the edited files. You should now be able to sail your C3C ships further and faster.

Please let me know if you have any (technical) problems with these files.

 

[klarius]

Well, I tried to send mad-bax a PM about some more observations, for him to publish what he thinks necessary. But his pm box is full , so I post it here:

@mad-bax:
I calculated a little bit with our corruption rates. I'm pretty sure now that we have a huge OCN.
So I assume you had a huge game before creating the save and did your changes in the biq only for standard size.
Bug report thread
Another point is the barb setting. You posted it should be raging. I think we should have seen more barbs, if this is true. So you probably also had a lower barb setting.
Any other surprises ?
SGL, respawn ?

 

[chunkymonkey]

@Alan

Looks like our latest turnset (Barbslinger) was played and submitted with the older unedited files just before you made the announcement... Hope this hasn't screwed up the system, i'll tell my team to stop until we get the all clear from you...

 

[AlanH]

@chunkeymonkey: I did edit and upload a 2150 BC file for Barbslinger, but your 1750 BC save arrived at about the same time, so I've edited that one as well, and that's the file you can download from your link on the status page. Go ahead and let me know how it goes.

 

[akots]

@AlanH: Thanks for putting your effort to this. The CDZ team has a problem. Anarres cannot upload the save. And he has apparently played the unedited version of the game since the download link was broken and he got the save "traditional way" from the preceding player col. We're in the process of figuring this out. I will try to upload the file now. Is it possible to correct it then and post something here so that the next player in roster knows when the game can be continued. Thanks again and sorry for all this trouble.

Edited: The save has been uploaded. It is an unpatched version apparently. Please let us know when we can continue with the game.

 

[AlanH]

Sorry Akots. Due to my connection problems I've ony just seen your post. I'll get on it now.

 

[AlanH]

@Akots: I've fixed CDZ's 1500 BC file. It's ready for you to play.

 

[akots]

Thanks a lot, moving right along with the game.

 

[klarius]

BTW a change of annares->anarres in the SGOTM database would probably fix anarres' upload problems.

 

[Pied Piper]

I really like the graph of team scores on the results page. Would it be possible to also graph culture and show us when the game is over? Better to start making it now if you do. Klarius had a good point about the different versions. Is it possible to show this on the graph?

 

[AlanH]

Both changes are in my to do list.

 

[mad-bax]

@mad-bax:
I calculated a little bit with our corruption rates. I'm pretty sure now that we have a huge OCN.
So I assume you had a huge game before creating the save and did your changes in the biq only for standard size.
Bug report thread
Another point is the barb setting. You posted it should be raging. I think we should have seen more barbs, if this is true. So you probably also had a lower barb setting.
Any other surprises ?
SGL, respawn ?

You need to play the game klarius. It is difficult for me to respond without offering spoiler information. Before the game you complained that the C3C version of the game was trivial in comparison with the vanilla/PTW version, due to the agricultural trait. This made me smile.

ainwood provided me with a procedure for setting up C3C games so that I would get the correct settings in the game. The settings are the same for all the C3C games, but yes they are different in some respects to vanilla/PTW. This is deliberate. Giving an agricultural civ a 4 settler factory start needed to be compensated for.

I can't respond to the Barbarian question adequately now. If you still think that this is a problem then we can discuss it in the first spoiler. Inspection of various saves have not quickened my pulse any, wheras the water movement cost bug certainly did!

SGL's are off. Definitely.
Respawn is off. Definitely.

To my knowledge there are 3 bugs uncovered so far.
The water movement bug, which Alan has kindly fixed for me.
The ToZ bug which I knew about, but decided to leave, for various reasons, but mainly because I didn't have time to fix it "the right way". Doing it the "quick" way would have meant a future game played with standard resources would have made something else (Uranium IIRC) the pre-requisite for ToZ and it would have been easy to forget, particularly if someone else takes over from me.
The third bug is a river in the start position that can be crossed north to south without losing all 3 movement points, but south to north you do. This bug is present in all three software versions and seems to be an editor glitch.

I know that because there were a couple of bugs in the last game, and a couple more in this that it is easy to believe that any non-standard behaviour in the game is just down to my incompetence. I don't blame you. All I can say is that my intention is to get to a single mod that never changes, and that everyone can live with. IMHO I think that the changes that I have made were necessary in order that SG's played as a competition, particularly with variants are as fair as possible. I hope that any remaining issues are washed out in this game, and that in future the games will be devoid of problems like this. At that point I can step aside as facilitator without passing a poisoned chalice to my successor.

 

[jeffelammar]

The ToZ bug which I knew about, but decided to leave, for various reasons, but mainly because I didn't have time to fix it "the right way".

I just scanned this thread and didn't find a note about the ToZ bug. Could you please post a quick explanation so that we know what to expect.

EDIT: DOH, just re-read and found it. Thats what I get for going through a day on 5 hrs sleep. Sorry.

Thanks

In fact thanks for everything. I am enjoying this game quite a lot (Bugs and all). Since I don't have a lot of C3C experience, I had never played with Agricultural. It is enlightening.

 

[mad-bax]

I have reluctantly decided to release an accurate change list for C3C, and have amended post 1 in this thread. Please don't hesitate to post any questions you have that arise from this.

EDIT: Added Open Issues list. Any suggestions for addition or resolution of current issues are welcomed of course.

 

[akots]

I have reluctantly decided to release an accurate change list for C3C, and have amended post 1 in this thread. ...

Better later than never. Many thanks for making the things clear. But it could have been better to know this before the game begins may be for the future? And why you were reluctant to release the changes?

It might be a bit different strategy for the starting moves and research path knowing the AIs begin with 2 settlers and have lots of goodie huts in C3C. It is essentially played like Demi-God in the beginning. Also nice to know that upgrade costs are less than they are in C3C normally.