Shogun 2

[Phrossack]

M2TW feels too much like a jumbled-up mess even on BC or SS, and on vanilla it's depressingly easy to just go for the WC and outrace the Mongols by years because there are a stupidly small number of territories to capture in a stupidly large amount of time. The papacy chiefly seems as though it exists mostly to frustrate and annoy players who end up Catholic.

I LOVE M2TW. BC is splendid, and lacks any of the flaws you mentioned. And manipulating the Pope is quite fun. You can easily win his support through a "donation" to the Church. And by working to get Cardinals, you'll not only earn his favor, but slowly get control of the College of Cardinals. Once you rig the Papacy, it'll be happy to excommunicate your attackers and call Crusades of your choice.

 

[schlaufuchs]

You can easily win his support through a "donation" to the Church. And by working to get Cardinals, you'll not only earn his favor, but slowly get control of the College of Cardinals. Once you rig the Papacy, it'll be happy to excommunicate your attackers and call Crusades of your choice.

Why the hell is this a good thing? It sounds like less an intriguing game element and more a chore.

Also what Dachs said.

 

[LightSpectra]

Why the hell is this a good thing? It sounds like less an intriguing game element and more a chore.

It's actually a very compelling gameplay element. First it adds a huge incentive for developing larger cathedrals, so as to get more cardinals; second it also adds a "hardcore" mode to the game, if you so wish (or don't know better); third it means you can get long-term military bonuses by trading short-term finances, which is an important decision for factions that have to blitz for neutral territories like the Holy Roman Empire or Hungary.

I guess I'm in the minority on that, though. Most people complain about the Papacy. Admittedly the inquisitors do get on my nerves sometimes.

 

[Hehehe]

I admit, the inquisitors are annoying. An inquisitor once killed one of my cardinals. Cardinal with 7-8 piety, appointed by the pope, killed by inquisitor... Other than the inquisitors, I, too like the papacy. If you control the papacy you can call a crusade almost anywhere you want. It's a good way to move troops fast and gain experience, good traits and better public order (and crusader guilds, should you need them). What I usually do is I recruit a lot of priests in one settlement, so that I eventually get a theologians guild HQ in that city. Then I can recruit cardinal-ready priests right away and flood the college of cardinals with my cardinals.

 

[Jos Ballenbak]

I too like M2TW but it does have a certain lack of depth in the game, diplomacy for example is really bad in the game and and so limited. Also the church plays such a minor role in the game

 

[LightSpectra]

If I could remake Medieval II, I'd definitely overhaul the campaign map system.

First of all I'd add some sort of supply train, since that was vital in several wars, most importantly the mid-phase of the Hundred Years' War. Also it would take away from the ridiculousness of being able to have an absurdly scattered empire with no regards to how supplies are moved. Also, to make crusader armies more realistic, I'd have it so they get to "ignore" the supply problem (or at least have it treated differently), but still cost upkeep.

Secondly I'd overhaul the diplomacy system. I find it incredibly stupid that I have to have my princesses/diplomats wander around the campaign map for ten rounds looking for some Slavian city in which to sell my map to Kievan Rus. I'd change it so it's like the diplomacy in Napoleon: Total War, except it takes several rounds for any transaction to take effect. E.g., if France is allying with the Roman Empire, it should take something like 12 rounds after any transaction of money or map information or what not to take effect.

Thirdly I'd add some element of banking, in order to make merchants less tedious and more realistic.

Fourthly I'd make the family system more dynamic. There's no succession wars, so basically the only fruit of even giving the slightest bit of attention to your faction's family tree is that you can carefully manage it to get good successors.

Fifthly I'd make trade worth a great deal more, so that there's actually a reason to build ships for more than transportation. It astounds me that I can blockade Venice forever and it'll have little affect on that faction.

 

[Phrossack]

If I could remake Medieval II, I'd definitely overhaul the campaign map system.

First of all I'd add some sort of supply train, since that was vital in several wars, most importantly the mid-phase of the Hundred Years' War. Also it would take away from the ridiculousness of being able to have an absurdly scattered empire with no regards to how supplies are moved. Also, to make crusader armies more realistic, I'd have it so they get to "ignore" the supply problem (or at least have it treated differently), but still cost upkeep.

Secondly I'd overhaul the diplomacy system. I find it incredibly stupid that I have to have my princesses/diplomats wander around the campaign map for ten rounds looking for some Slavian city in which to sell my map to Kievan Rus. I'd change it so it's like the diplomacy in Napoleon: Total War, except it takes several rounds for any transaction to take effect. E.g., if France is allying with the Roman Empire, it should take something like 12 rounds after any transaction of money or map information or what not to take effect.

Thirdly I'd add some element of banking, in order to make merchants less tedious and more realistic.

Fourthly I'd make the family system more dynamic. There's no succession wars, so basically the only fruit of even giving the slightest bit of attention to your faction's family tree is that you can carefully manage it to get good successors.

Fifthly I'd make trade worth a great deal more, so that there's actually a reason to build ships for more than transportation. It astounds me that I can blockade Venice forever and it'll have little affect on that faction.

M2 certainly needs some overhauls, like cavalry who can dismount at will, separate horse and rider health, and massive improvements to the AI. But I think it's still the best TW game. The recent ones are dull and nigh-unmoddable.

 

[Jos Ballenbak]

I think the general opinion is that it could be so much more! I don't think that Shogun 2 is going to change that. Then again I do not know if lets say a EUIII/TW fusion game would be a commercial succes.

 

[W|M]

That would be awesome.

 

[Maniacal]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/11/wot-i-think-total-war-shogun-2/

RPS review, apparently the AI is better (tries to flank more often, etc) on Hard and higher difficulties.

 

[Phrossack]

I think the general opinion is that it could be so much more! I don't think that Shogun 2 is going to change that. Then again I do not know if lets say a EUIII/TW fusion game would be a commercial succes.

I know nothing of EU III. A Civ/TW game would be fantastic, but would fall under the category of a restricted substannce and would be too complicated for 90% of gamers to tolerate.

 

[schlaufuchs]

I know nothing of EU III.

You should fix that.

 

[W|M]

If I could remake Medieval II, I'd definitely overhaul the campaign map system.

First of all I'd add some sort of supply train, since that was vital in several wars, most importantly the mid-phase of the Hundred Years' War. Also it would take away from the ridiculousness of being able to have an absurdly scattered empire with no regards to how supplies are moved. Also, to make crusader armies more realistic, I'd have it so they get to "ignore" the supply problem (or at least have it treated differently), but still cost upkeep.

Secondly I'd overhaul the diplomacy system. I find it incredibly stupid that I have to have my princesses/diplomats wander around the campaign map for ten rounds looking for some Slavian city in which to sell my map to Kievan Rus. I'd change it so it's like the diplomacy in Napoleon: Total War, except it takes several rounds for any transaction to take effect. E.g., if France is allying with the Roman Empire, it should take something like 12 rounds after any transaction of money or map information or what not to take effect.

Thirdly I'd add some element of banking, in order to make merchants less tedious and more realistic.

Fourthly I'd make the family system more dynamic. There's no succession wars, so basically the only fruit of even giving the slightest bit of attention to your faction's family tree is that you can carefully manage it to get good successors.

Fifthly I'd make trade worth a great deal more, so that there's actually a reason to build ships for more than transportation. It astounds me that I can blockade Venice forever and it'll have little affect on that faction.

Why don't you mod it, or get someone else to mod it if you don't know how to mod?

 

[Jos Ballenbak]

But he wants to change the core of the game, I do not know if that's possible to mod..

 

[Maniacal]

It probably isn't since most of that is hard coded.

 

[Fabiano1979]

Well, Im playing my first game and Im very happy with it.

I agree pretty much with this review: http://www.gamepro.com/article/features/218512/the-first-three-weeks-total-war-shogun-2/

"Its refinements are important, and it is good to be challenged again, but in most ways, Shogun 2 is the same game we've always known."

Its a great total war game, nothing amazing, but at least it was not dumb down like civ v.

 

[Rub'Rum]

So... em... Any other people got input on this game up to now? It's a little fresh out of the oven but I'm not going to shed out money right away after getting burned by ETW. Actually that's not quite true, I did play ETW for like 70 hours, but that's barely 2 campaigns when you come to think of it. Maybe I just play too slowly.

 

[Fabiano1979]

Im really enjoying shogun 2. Its a must have for strategy players.

Its way better than empire and probably better than medieval 2.

The AI is very smart and proactive.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/11/total-war-shogun-2-review-224/

I know those reviews are not 100% reliable, but you can see that the readers reviews are good aswell.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Well, after playing through a teeny bit of a campaign (I played Shimazu and failed spectacularly), I can say that the game basically took all the best bits from the previous versions and mashed it all into one. Everything about it is great, really, the map is beautiful (as with the graphics in general), the A.I.'s not a moron, battles are actually challenging, provinces are complicated (ala Empire) yet simple (ala Medieval 2), the interface is simple, but also chocked full of info, I mean, hell, just about everything in this game is perfect. It's the most polished version of Total War yet. That is to say, it isn't ground-braking, or, well, new in anyway. It feels like just about every other Total War game, just extremely polished and well done.

I only have a couple gripes:

1) No DX11 or AA for another couple weeks
2) Loading isn't as bad as in Empire and Napoleon, but launching the game still takes longer than it should
3) A notification issue, I was never notified when Wakka pirates attacked my trade route (they were there for like 6 years before I noticed)
4) You have to reveal the entire map yourself

Most of those are just picky things, and don't break the game at all.

If you're anything close to a Total War fan, pick up this game, it'd go as far as say it's the best version of Total War yet.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

So far so good. Nothing amazing - it's just a very polished, very well made Total War game. So far it's pretty much everything I wanted for the Shogun sequel I've been pining for this past decade and, while it's early days and I haven't experienced enough of the game to say anything definite, it certainly 'feels' better than Empire did out the box.

Special points for the multiplayer campaign, which is all I've been playing the game on with a friend these past couple of days. I don't know how it was for Napoleon, but this has been basically like playing a single-player game with a friend in charge of another faction. It's pretty lovely.