Succession Game - Hot Culture Day

Shearer9 and WhiteDragon, you are in. I will leave one place empty if someone wants to join before i get to my turn again.

So, players are:

1. abudabulabu - playing
2. E.mc - prepare
3. Shearer9
4. WhiteDragon
5. ?

And now a little about the game itself. I will settle in place, go for Hinduism so we can get Judaism then, and i would skip Buddhism, i think it is hardly possible to get both Buddhism and Hinduism. Now I'm off to play 20 turns, will post log and screenshots then.
 
Ok, here it goes.

Turn 0 - I settle in place, Delhi is founded, and i open a hut with my borders and get a scout! That will help us a lot, saving us from training one ourselves and losing turns that we could invest in culture. Monument is building in Delhi.

Turn 1 - Start resarching Polytheism and continue scouting with scout and warrior.

Turn 2 - Nothing special, made one move with warrior to NE.

Turn 3 - Just moving warrior and scout around.

Turn 4 - Popped a hut with warrior and got a technology, Bronze Working! But, no copper arround :(

Turn 5 - Borders of Delhi expanded, and we have pigs, corn and wine in our city radius, and there is ivory in the next borders expansion.

Turn 6 - Nothing.

Turn 7 - I see a hut with a scout.

Turn 8 - There is copper in south and east. Popped a hut with a scout, got 25 gold.

Turn 9 - Spotted a hut with warrior. Going towards it.

Turn 10 - Got 43 gold from a hut. South scout spotted a barbarian lion.

This is how things look in 3600 BC:

Northern and eastern part:



Southern part:



Turn 11 - Scout killed a barbarian lion.

Turn 12 - Hinduism founded, started resarching Masonry. Converting to Hinduism until we get to Judaism. Contact made with Roman Empire. Our scout on the south has met his warrior. Haven't seen Roman borders though.

Turn 13 - Romans have Bronze Working, they adopted Slavery.

Turn 14 - Warrior spotted a hut and a barbarian bear.

Turn 15 - Buddhism has been founded in distant land. Warrior popped a hut and we got a map, which tells us where Cezar is;



I will send warrior there to scout Cezar a little bit, because he could be dangerous if he has copper near... Don't forget he has BW.

Turn 16 - Nothing, moving warrior and scout.

Turn 17 - Warrior beats a lion while defending, we construct a monument in Delhi, Delhi is size 3 and is putting some shields in a Settler, because we dont have any worker technologies, and a worker would just sit around doing nothing.

Turn 18 - Nothing special.

Turn 19 - Nothing special again.

Turn 20 - Discovered Masonry, going for Monotheism (Judaism)

Turn 20 and a half :lol: - After i pressed enter for the end of turn 20, our scout got killed by a barbarian bear :(

This is how the northern part looks like:



This is eastern part with Romans:



And the southern part with(out) our scout:



We are completely without any worker techs; we need to get some as soon as Monotheism is done. We need to stop with settler and put a warrior, so we can continue scouting, maybe to the north. We also need to completely scout Cezar with our warrior, so we can see if he has copper. Because if he has... We need to build a city that also has copper and/or iron, otherwise things could get nasty. Post your comments. Here is the save: http://rapidshare.com/files/261014544/civfanatics.com_BC-3160.CivBeyondSwordSave.html
 
Nice set.

I think we need to keep building the settler then settle the cows/fish since it will complete same turn as Mono. Finish Mono, then fishing>Agriculture>AH. With WB/pasture/farms cow/fish will be a good GP farm and settlers/workers spam for our empire. I really think we should REX like heck and build at least three more cities, use an oracle slingshot for COL, use GP from oracle for a Shrine in Delhi that will back support our REX and hopefully spread it to our newly founded cities.

Spoiler :
 
I agree with White Dragon, we should definitively take the red dot ASAP and use Oracle for COL (Caste System). Oracle will also, as you say, help us a ton with REX-ing because of the Great Prophet buidling a shrine in Delhi, and i think we should convert Ceasar on Hinduism because of the shrine, so we can REX even more while going in plus with :commerce:.

Oh, and E.mc, when we get Judaism, convert to no state religion, so we get +10 culture in Delhi instead of +5 culture and +1 :)

So;

1. abudabulabu
2. E.mc - playing
3. Shearer9 - prepare
4. White Dragon
 
I've played my set of turns. Here is how it went.

Spoiler :

Turn 21 - Our Warrior is healing outside Rome's cultural borders.
Turn 22 - Borders of Delhi expands
Turn 25 - Our Warrior is healed, i send him to explore more of the map
Turn 31 - Our Warrior survives a battle with a lion on a forested tile, I give him Woodsman I promotion and have him heal
Turn 32 - The warrior is healed and i send him to further scout our continent.
He landed on a forested tile near a bear. No more civilizations met so far.
Turn 33 - The bear doesn't attack. I run away.
Turn 34

Judaism is founded. Delhi finishes the settler and i start a worker (10 turns). I put agriculture next(7 turns). Our cultural borders reveal the land to the red city so i send the settler there without an escort

Turn 35

Bombay is founded and i start it on a monument so it can grab the fish resource. I also convert to no state religion for the extra culture in Delhi.

Turn 37 - We meet this guy. He must be somewhere to north-east.


Turn 40

Agriculture is in and i queue fishing. Alexander adopts slavery.


I think next we should settle south of us, where we can grab copper, marble and wheat after the first border expansion. We need to build some army to keep these guys off our backs and spread our faith to them.

 

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I took a look at the save. I think settling near marble is the priority now, because it double-speeds construction of Oracle, which we will use for CoL. But, we gotta get Priesthood to construct the Oracle, but I'm not sure if we should go: Fishing - Priesthood - AH or: Fishing - AH - Priesthood. Even though, if we get the second city near Marble, we need to get the road to Delhi, then do the quarry... If we get Priesthood before AH, we can start constructing Oracle but with half speed, but we hardly can pop another Settler to get the Marble with Bombay and double the speed, i mean, we can, but it will stop its growth, and we need it for GA factory... Or we can wait with Priesthood and start Oracle from the beginning with double speed, when we get the Settler and Marble.

I am not sure what to do...
 
Hmm, looks interesting, I like our position though. How are we going to manage religions? Are we going to take an official state religion or just remain neutral. And what should we try to convert Julius and Alex to? Will play later.
 
We are just going to try to discover as many religions as possible and remain neutral, so we get cultural bonuses.

I think we should convert them to Hinduism, and when we need them as allys, we convert to Hinduism temporarily too. So, Hindu shrine in Delhi when we get Great Prophet and then shrine can support us (if we spread Hinduism).

Oh, and we need to get Marble ASAP because of double production speed of Oracle which we will use for CoL (very important because of Caste System!!)
 
Staying in no state religion has it's cultural bonuses, but we will eventually have to convert the continent to the same religion and share it with them. We will need the diplomatic bonuses if we want to focus on culture rather than military.
 
Lurker: Well, for a cultural game you could do much worse for neighbors (like Monty!). Alex can be troublesome, but you got the more peaceful of the two Caesars. Focus your diplomacy most on Alex: He's more aggressive than Augustus and you're only safe from him if he's Friendly towards you. Augustus won't attack at Pleased, so keep that in mind. However, Augustus is dangerous for you in another way: He's Industrious and he likes to build Wonders.

Alexander's favorite civic is Vassalage, which is unfortunate because you'll probably have no reason to select it unless you're hard pressed for diplomatic bonuses. Augustus likes Representation (or the illusion of it, at least). As you've been discussing shared religions can help, but worry more about Alex's religion because I don't think Augustus cares if you're a different religion (or at least, not much) and you only need him at Pleased. Open Borders are good, too, so long as neither are the other's worst enemy.

Hopefully this was of help. Watch out if either of them get too much on their hands.
 
Turn 41 - More exploring from the warrior

Turn 43 - Fishing comes in, decided to switch to AH first, we need at least another military unit.

Turn 44 - Worker is finished, adopting slavery as well. Sending worker to farm that corn.

Turn 49 - Warrior is done in Delhi, gonna switch to a settler to try and get a 3rd city down there by marble.

Turn 50 - Caesar just founded Antium, so he's got 2 cities now, but my warrior has turned up no bronze at all down there.

Turn 51 - We come last in the most powerful poll, rather unsurprisingly, but Caesar is #1 and Alex is #3. Just finished chopping a forest outside of Delhi.

Turn 52 - AH is in, moving worker to pasture those pigs. We also have horses inside out cultural borders, and Caesar doesn't. Switching to research the wheel.

Turn 54 - Monument done in Bombay, now building a worker.

Turn 58 - The wheel comes in, settler is completed, sending him south with warrior escort. We also meet Roosevelt, and switch the tech to Priesthood.

Turn 61 - Another warrior built in Delhi, settler + warrior continuing south, and Roosevelt is not that far away from us, he's just a few squares NE outside of our cultural area. Not sure why it has taken so long to find him.

Perhaps after Priesthood we should think about hunting -> archery? I'm starting to feel pretty exposed here. Our military at this point consists of 3 warriors. Also, can someone outline what we'll need to hit next on the tech path to get the COL slingshot?

My other question is about slavery, is there some reason we're not adopting it?
 

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Got it. Need Writing for COL slingshot. I normally research it the same time I build the Oracle, mming hammers/commerce so Writing 1 turn b4 oracle. Will take a look at save later today and come up with a PPP.
 
Took a look at the save and have the following comments/questions regarding my PPP.

1.) Techs: Priesthood -> Writing -> COL Slingshot -> Pottery
2.) Delhi will finish worker then start on Oracle. With all those forests, I plan on chopping several of the grassland hills then building mines. I expect to cut off at least 10 turns between chops and building mines.
3.) According to the attached Dot Map, it looks like marble city is a long ways away and has no real way to generate commerce. I think exploring to the SW of settling party to show hidden tiles on way may provide some insight, after all there is coast & maybe some food.
4.) Not that it will happen in my turnset, but I would like to get a settler for 12 Cottages ASAP. Augustus has no real promising land except diagonally towards us & that site.
5.) Start hooking up horsies for defense & exploration.
6.) Camp Elephants for extra :).
Spoiler :


I plan on playing/posting sometime tomorrow afternoon or evening.
 
Since we got horses copper doesn't becomes such a big priority, but still, that city also has marble which will be very useful in the future. I am thinking of settling that city sooner rather than later so Caesar doesn't grab it from us.

If we have the shrine up soon we don't have to hurry with a cottaged comerce city.
 
@Shearer9 - We haven't adopted Slavery because i haven't adopted it since i usually do that when i need to whip a unit to defend city or something like that, and there was no need to whip, and also we are Spiritual so there is no turn of anarchy when we switch so we can do it anytime we want (damn, what a long sentence :lol:)

@Whosit - Thanks for the advices.

@White Dragon -

1. - Agreed
2. - Agreed
3. - Maybe, but i think Marble is the high priority now.
4. - Here i agree with E.mc, i think it is not the highest priority right now, especially if you convert to Hinduism, then switch to Organized Religion and convert Alex and Ceasar. But, you can do it only after Writing, before we won't be able to enter their borders.
5. - Definitively.
6. - Yea, but we need Hunting, and we are busy with tecnologies for Oracle and CoL slingshot. We are still in plus with happines, add +1 :) when we convert to Hinduism, i think we are ok, so i think that is not as high priority as some other things like taming Alex and Ceasar.

By the way, where Alex is? We should scout him so we know if he has copper.
 
A Cultural Dragon, Part 1​
Spoiler :

Turn 0 1560 BC (Inherited)
1.) Priesthood will finish researching in two turns.
2.) Both Delhi & Bombay are building Fast Workers. I love these guys.

Turn 1 1520 BC
1.) Moving settling party in a SW direction to explore on the way to Marble City.
2.) Our warrior to the east starts to explore in a northerly direction.

Turn 2 1480 BC
1.) Priesthood researched. Select Writing.
Spoiler :

2.) Settling party finds another potential city site. It looks like it could be great for early production of an army. Bad news they run into a lion. :undecide:
Spoiler :

Turn 3 1440 BC
The lion is in retreat. :D Party moves in quickest route to Marble City.

Turn 4 1400 BC
August Caesar (AC) founds another city.

Turn 5 1360 BC
1.) Delhi: Worker -> Oracle. Worker moves SW to build a plain mine.
2.) Bombay: Worker -> WB. Worker moves S to pasture cows.
3.) Worker near Delhi completes farm. Moves W to chop a grassland hill.
4.) 21 turns for the Oracle. Writing will be completed in 5.

Turn 6 1320 BC
Marble City is founded. Set to building a warrior rather than monument for the following reasons:
a. Lots of barbs around.
b. Confucianism will most likely be founded here with Oracle/COL slingshot.

Turn 7 1280 BC
Delhi grows to size 5. Oracle down to 13 turns.

Turn 8 1240 BC
1st chop for Oracle done as is plains hill mine. MM Delhi for Oracle in 7 while growing in 8.

Turn 9 1200 BC
1.) Set up two chops for Oracle (6).
2.) Cows pastured near Bombay. Worker set to road from river to horsies.

Turn 10 1160 BC
1.) Great Wall built in a distant land.
2.) Writing completed.
Spoiler :

3.) Select Pottery to be completed in 4 turns.
4.) Sign Open Borders with Rosy, Alex & AC.

Turn 11 1120 BC
Exploring

Turn 12 1080 BC
1.) Bombay: WB -> Warrior(3). Bombay needs protection, +1:), grows in 3, and pottery in 2.
2.) Both chops done for Oracle. Will complete next turn. Don't know if chopping helped, but please let me believe it made the difference. :p

Turn 13 1040 BC
1.) The Oracle is constructed in Delhi.
2.) Delhi: Oracle -> Hindu Temple. :dunno: I know this seems odd but I did this so we can run a priest specialist to hurry up our first prophet. We are already down to 70% slider and the sooner we get prophet the sooner we have a shrine, the sooner we have +:gold:, and the sooner it will self spread our religion of choice.
3.) Pick COL as free tech.
Spoiler :

4.) Confucianism founded in MC.
5.) Sending missionary to Delhi.
6.) Since I haven't chosen a state religion, in 2 turns the borders of MC will pop.
7.) Set both workers to build grassland hill mines.

Turn 14 1000 BC
1.) Pottery is completed.
Spoiler :

2.) Set Hunting for 3 turns.
3.) MC: Warrior -> Granary. Warrior off to fog bust to the south.
4.) We find Alex way to the north.
Spoiler :


Turn 15 975 BC
1.) MC's borders expand.
2.) Switch to Judaism since 2 out of 3 cities already has it. Can always switch in 5 turns anyway.
3.) Revolt to OR.
4.) Delhi: Hindu Temple -> Jewish Missionary.
5.) MM Delhi to run a priest specialist. Great Prophet now in 9 turns instead of 22.
6.) Bombay: Warrior -> Granary
7.) Road to horsies completed. Start pasture.

Turn 16 950 BC
Further exploration of Alex. Slider down to 80%

Turn 17 925 BC
1.) Both mines completed in Delhi. Sent one to improve wheat at MC and the other to build a road to MC.
2.) Missionary spreads Confucianism in Delhi.
3.) Slider down to 70%

Turn 18 900 BC
1.) The warrior on his way to fogbust is attacked by a Barbarian Warrior. He survives and is healing in a forest.
2.) Checking Diplo screen I see Rosy is worst enemy of Alex. My guess is those two are in for a war. Hopefully we can focus on AC and wipe him out soon after construction.
3.) Horsies are connected to Delhi and Bombay.
4.) Hunting is completed. Choose Archery as a place holder.
Spoiler :


5.) At look at the lay of the land after this set of exploration.
Spoiler :

6.) Delhi:
Spoiler :

7.) Bombay:
Spoiler :

8.) Marble City:
Spoiler :


Some things to mention.
a. What do we want to tech next?
b. Do we want to stay in Judaism or convert to Hinduism?
c. Once we get Great Prophet, set specialist back to work in the field.
d. Bombay needs at least three farms. I wouldn't chop forests since they are our only source of hammers until Metal Casting & workshops.
e. We should switch to Caste System in a couple of turns so Bombay can run some scientists once those farms are completed.

1. abudabulabu -> Tag, your it.
2. E.mc -> On deck
3. Shearer9
4. White Dragon -> Just Played
 

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I guess the really important thing re: religion is to make sure both those around us share the same one. So if it's easiest to spread Judaism, we should go with that. We're not planning on any kind of early war, are we?

Nice turnset btw.

Also, I'm not sure how quickly abu will get his report up, but if I haven't posted by noon EST on Tuesday the 4th then I'm just gonna take a pass and be OOP until the 12th. I've just got a busy few days before I go on vacation.
 
@White Dragon - First of all, nice set. Second, the questions;

a. I am for completing Archery and continuing with Iron Working, our military is too weak. Also, Alphabet for tech trading so we can see their current techs. Our "army" consists of 5 warriors right now, if Alex decides to go on us... We are dead...
b. If you have already invested hammers in Jewish Missionary, then i think we should stay in Judaism.
c. Definitively.
d. No way to chop forests, we already have low production in Bombay.
e. Two turns till able to revolt again, will do it ASAP.

I'll play today or tommorrow, and i think we should reduce the number of turns to 15?
 
The main reason I chose Judaism is that in my SP games I find that is self spreads the most. I built the Jewish missionary for MC to get the 25%:hammers: bonus, but I suppose we could use it to spread to one of our neighbors. Alex is a long ways away so I think we have time to hook up that copper before we have to worry about him. Plus, with the horsies hooked up we can build a couple of chariots for the barbs. I think we should settle the production city to the SW soon so Delhi can focus on religious buildings, missionaries and wonders, i.e. Hanging Gardens, GLib, UoS, SpiMin, etc.
 
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