Team Game Earth 2014 (America)

Excellent suggestion!

Section 2.02 reads that "An amendment shall be made active for voting upon being introduced by a player in the Membership of Good Standing and seconded by another of the same category."

I think that can reasonably be interpreted as any player that is included in the Membership of Good Standing can make a proposal.

Splendid. I therefore put forward what I said in post 19 as a motion. I would also like to add to the motion that we prioritise our stated allies in these deals and only after those possibilities have been exhausted should we look to trade with non-allies. To be clear, though, I am not at this stage suggesting we should embargo non-allies.

Does anyone second the motion?
 
Splendid. I therefore put forward what I said in post 19 as a motion. I would also like to add to the motion that we prioritise our stated allies in these deals and only after those possibilities have been exhausted should we look to trade with non-allies. To be clear, though, I am not at this stage suggesting we should embargo non-allies.

Does anyone second the motion?

I need the proposal to be a little more specific before I can lend my support. Maybe something like:

Article XI. Trading Routes and Resources
(a) America shall actively pursue resource trading of excess luxury resources
(b) Nations that are declared as a friend and ally shall be prioritized as a preferred trading partner
1) Preferred trade partners shall not exceed a trade ratio of 2:1 luxury resources nor shall America pay more than 7 GPT per luxury resource
(c) Nations that are not declared as a friend and ally shall be allotted a trade of any excess luxury item after (b)1) has been considered
1) Non preferred trade partners shall not exceed a trade ratio of 1:1 luxury resources nor shall America pay more than 3 GPT per luxury resource


I am NOT proposing the above, I'm just making a suggestion for your proposal.
 
Okay, thanks for that. I'll give my own version a go and see if it gets support.

I propose the following motion:

Article XI. Trading Routes and Resources
(a) America shall actively pursue the trading of excess American luxury resources in exchange for other luxury resources not already possessed or for gold until such time as our nation's happiness and finances are in surplus.
(b) Nations that are declared as a friend and ally shall be prioritised as a preferred trading partner.
(c) Nations that are not declared as a friend and ally shall be allotted a trade of any excess luxury item after (b) has been considered.
 
I have withdrawn my Article XI proposal now that I have had a chance to properly appraise the situation ((i.e. load up the game ;))).

Regarding your Article IX proposal, I’ve had some ideas of how to achieve the result you want without sacrificing our defensive capability. I agree, with the current financial crisis we need to arrest the treasury deficit. But instead of focussing on cutting expenditure I believe we have opportunities for raising revenue that can be pursued.

My main concern with rapidly reducing our standing forces is that it might embolden those who wish to do us harm. Also, these assets will cost a great deal of time to rebuild if we later decide we need them, and would tie up cities in the event of war. Also, I think we should quarantine the M1A1s from any military cutbacks because in the event of war I think we will be glad to still have them.

A brief note here, I realised I made some assumptions that were incorrect. With regard to Article V, I mistakenly thought we had existing alliances with other countries. I now realise we are still in the process of establishing embassies and declarations of friendship. As our allies will not trade with us in favourable terms until these treaties are signed I propose we do so as a first order of business before attempting any trade.

I believe we can resolve our civil unrest ((happiness)) problem and account deficit largely through trade mechanisms. I think this can be done in three phases:

Phase 1 (first few turns) — Trade surplus luxury items to other nations to acquire new luxury resources. I believe this will restore law and order almost immediately (we would only need three or four new types of luxury goods to push us back into happy territory, I think). If there are any leftover surplus luxury resources, trade them to other countries for gold per turn. Trade old strategic resources (by which I mean only coal and earlier resource types) that are not in use to other countries for gold per turn. Each turn decommission one military unit (non-garrisoned Bradleys in the continental US at first, but then Apaches if we run out of Bradleys to disband), the savings of which will cover the current term’s deficit. If our account balance is for some reason still going backward (I mean in real terms after the asset sale, not what the deficit says it is) we could look to employ one city in the generation of wealth for a short time (I would recommend a landlocked city if this is something we are going to do).

Phase 2 (after some trade routes are established) — Once a few trade routes are established (as per Article X) the decommissioning of military units may not be as necessary, if the deficit is sufficiently small. At this point we could probably allow any cities who were producing wealth to produce other works.

Phase 3 (after all trade routes are established) — Once all trade routes are established (as per Article X) I believe we will not have any remaining cashflow problems and the armed forces can remain at whatever size they are and cities will be free to build whatever else we may need.

So instead of seconding your Article IX motion I guess I would like to instead propose an alternate vision, something like an Article XI: Emergency measures to quell civil disorder and arrest the treasury deficit.

All in all, I think we can turn our financial position around much quicker than it would appear. I have not moved this as a motion because I wanted to see what you thought first and to see if it could use any reworking before moving.

What are your thoughts?
 
I have withdrawn my Article XI proposal now that I have had a chance to properly appraise the situation ((i.e. load up the game ;))).

...

...

A brief note here, I realised I made some assumptions that were incorrect. With regard to Article V, I mistakenly thought we had existing alliances with other countries. I now realise we are still in the process of establishing embassies and declarations of friendship. As our allies will not trade with us in favourable terms until these treaties are signed I propose we do so as a first order of business before attempting any trade.

Good point, I think we should consider amending Article V to empty the list of favored countries and add a section there that limits favored countries to only those with whom we have an active DOF. I'm indisposed until Sunday, but will work on it then.

Comments regarding your other points to follow...
 
Phase 1 (first few turns) — Trade surplus luxury items to other nations to acquire new luxury resources. I believe this will restore law and order almost immediately (we would only need three or four new types of luxury goods to push us back into happy territory, I think). If there are any leftover surplus luxury resources, trade them to other countries for gold per turn. Trade old strategic resources (by which I mean only coal and earlier resource types) that are not in use to other countries for gold per turn. Each turn decommission one military unit (non-garrisoned Bradleys in the continental US at first, but then Apaches if we run out of Bradleys to disband), the savings of which will cover the current term’s deficit. If our account balance is for some reason still going backward (I mean in real terms after the asset sale, not what the deficit says it is) we could look to employ one city in the generation of wealth for a short time (I would recommend a landlocked city if this is something we are going to do).

If we are going to take a phased approach and not a mass decommission, it might be beneficial to gift a military unit to a city state per turn to gain influence. Of course the influence would not be enough to create significant change in our status with them unless we throw some money at it as well. I'm good with a phased approach.

Phase 2 (after some trade routes are established) — Once a few trade routes are established (as per Article X) the decommissioning of military units may not be as necessary, if the deficit is sufficiently small. At this point we could probably allow any cities who were producing wealth to produce other works.

Agreed. Getting the trade routes up and running should be top priority and will most likely remedy our financial situation almost by itself.

Phase 3 (after all trade routes are established) — Once all trade routes are established (as per Article X) I believe we will not have any remaining cashflow problems and the armed forces can remain at whatever size they are and cities will be free to build whatever else we may need.

I still think we should still come up with a number for a standing military in peacetime and write that into the constitution. Maybe it is not the numbers I proposed, but something with a larger standing force.
 
Yes I agree that decommissioning military units will not be worth the money saved if the trade routes are established
 
If we are going to take a phased approach and not a mass decommission, it might be beneficial to gift a military unit to a city state per turn to gain influence. Of course the influence would not be enough to create significant change in our status with them unless we throw some money at it as well. I'm good with a phased approach.

Instead of donating them to neutral/friendly city-states, which as you said would only truly be beneficial if we throw money after it because the influence will fall each turn, we could consider using it to try and repair relations with some countries (e.g. Cuba). Of course the danger with this would be if we were ever in war with them, having given them the tools of our own destructions (for example if they were to fall into the orbit of an enemy nation). But since our influence with them will rise each turn it's just a way of speeding that up. Something to think about, anyway.

I still think we should still come up with a number for a standing military in peacetime and write that into the constitution. Maybe it is not the numbers I proposed, but something with a larger standing force.

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. I just assumed we'd maintain our existing force and pass legislation authorising the building up or drawing down of our forces in the future.
 
I don't think that we have any significant threats to worry about and can save a lot of money by diminishing our standing military.

The only two countries that can reach us quickly are Mexico and Canada, since they are both following the Freedom ideology, we will probably be able to become friends with them fairly quickly. As long as we maintain a decent navy, our homeland should be safe. We have a lot of idle land units in CONUS that can be decommissioned.

Also, one other thing I would like to introduce is a change to the voting timeline. I think votes should always happen on a Saturday or a Sunday, so the law should be changed to be something like the voting deadline will take place on the following Saturday of introducing an amendment as long as there were three full days to discuss it before the Saturday. If there were less than three (say the amendment was introduced on Thursday) then the final vote would take place the following Saturday.
 
I think we have just about the base established for now and I can start submitting turns. I will try to submit a turn every week or so and will update the link so everyone can download the current situation and look around.
 
I propose the following:

Amend:

Section 5.02 to delete points (a) through (h) (effectively clearing the list of countries we consider "Friends and Allies" and adding Section 5.03 to read: "America shall add a nation to Section 5.02 as an official Friend and Ally once a Declaration of Friendship has been declared in the game."


Create:

Article IX. Military and Units
Section 9.01 America shall limit their military to the following units.
(a) THREE AH-64 Apache unit stationed in and around the Continental US
(b) THREE M2 Bradley unit stationed in and around the Continental US
(c) THREE M1A1 unit stationed in and around the Continental US
(d) ONE M1A1 unit stationed in Germany
(e) ONE M2 Bradley unit stationed in Germany
(f) ONE Stealth Bomber units
(g) TWO Jet Bombers units
(h) EIGHT F-15 units
(i) FIVE Los Angeles units
1) Including upgrading THREE Nuclear Submarines to Los Angeles units
(j) FOUR Carrier units
(k) FOUR Destroyer units
(l) FOUR Missile Cruiser units
(m) SEVEN Nuclear Missile units
Section 9.02 America shall disband all military units not listed under Section 8.01.
 
I propose the following:

Amend:

Section 5.02 to delete points (a) through (h) (effectively clearing the list of countries we consider "Friends and Allies" and adding Section 5.03 to read: "America shall add a nation to Section 5.02 as an official Friend and Ally once a Declaration of Friendship has been declared in the game."


Create:

Article IX. Military and Units
Section 9.01 America shall limit their military to the following units.
(a) THREE AH-64 Apache unit stationed in and around the Continental US
(b) THREE M2 Bradley unit stationed in and around the Continental US
(c) THREE M1A1 unit stationed in and around the Continental US
(d) ONE M1A1 unit stationed in Germany
(e) ONE M2 Bradley unit stationed in Germany
(f) ONE Stealth Bomber units
(g) TWO Jet Bombers units
(h) EIGHT F-15 units
(i) FIVE Los Angeles units
1) Including upgrading THREE Nuclear Submarines to Los Angeles units
(j) FOUR Carrier units
(k) FOUR Destroyer units
(l) FOUR Missile Cruiser units
(m) SEVEN Nuclear Missile units
Section 9.02 America shall disband all military units not listed under Section 8.01.

Article X puts plenty of units in the CONUS to defend the homeland. With a strong navy, minimal land units will be needed, in my opinion.
 
One more proposal:

Amend Section 2.04 to read: "Voting on the amendment shall take place on the next Saturday after the amendment is proposed and seconded and given that at least three days have passed for discussion and voting.:

Also change from the same section to read:
(b) "On the Saturday when the vote is held, the players in the Membership of Good Standing that have not cast vote will be considered to have abstained."

Add to the same section:
(c) If three days of discussion have not passed before a Saturday arrives, the proposal shall be voted upon on the following Saturday.
 
I don't think that we have any significant threats to worry about and can save a lot of money by diminishing our standing military.

The only two countries that can reach us quickly are Mexico and Canada, since they are both following the Freedom ideology, we will probably be able to become friends with them fairly quickly. As long as we maintain a decent navy, our homeland should be safe. We have a lot of idle land units in CONUS that can be decommissioned.

Fair enough, you've convinced me. ;)


Also, one other thing I would like to introduce is a change to the voting timeline. I think votes should always happen on a Saturday or a Sunday, so the law should be changed to be something like the voting deadline will take place on the following Saturday of introducing an amendment as long as there were three full days to discuss it before the Saturday. If there were less than three (say the amendment was introduced on Thursday) then the final vote would take place the following Saturday.

Sounds good to me.

I have to head to bed now but I'll get to properly replying to everything tomorrow afternoon (GMT+10).
 
Turn 250 has been submitted!

Some points for discussion:


  • Our Aluminum resource is overused by 10! Cutting back some M1A1 units should bring that down. I think that is a further point to conduct some military cutting.

  • We need to assign spies/diplomats. I think since we are the most technologically advanced country, we should use them as diplomats in countries that don't share the freedom ideology. That should give us a pretty good view of how most of the world will vote in elections.

  • We need a general production direction for more of the cities.

  • Debedo - That is a city that really has very limited use since it is close to Honolulu. I think we should gift it to Indonesia to improve our relations with them.

  • Setting trade routes - we have trade vessels being built. I think we should base all our trade routes out of Washington/New York since that is where we have the East India Trading Co and focus on city states. If we play the freedom ideology right, we can actually have our influence increase per turn vs the city states with which we have trade routes. I'd focus on city states that have uranium and then the highest GPT.

  • Social Policy - I think we should focus on cutting unhappiness while moving towards the influencing city states on tier 3.

What do you think?
 

  • Our Aluminum resource is overused by 10! Cutting back some M1A1 units should bring that down. I think that is a further point to conduct some military cutting.

Sure thing.

  • We need to assign spies/diplomats. I think since we are the most technologically advanced country, we should use them as diplomats in countries that don't share the freedom ideology. That should give us a pretty good view of how most of the world will vote in elections.

Sounds good to me.

  • We need a general production direction for more of the cities.

Hm. I'll have a look tomorrow night when I'm at my Civ computer and let you know what I think.

  • Debedo - That is a city that really has very limited use since it is close to Honolulu. I think we should gift it to Indonesia to improve our relations with them.

I'm not familiar with this city. I'll get back to you on it.

  • Setting trade routes - we have trade vessels being built. I think we should base all our trade routes out of Washington/New York since that is where we have the East India Trading Co and focus on city states. If we play the freedom ideology right, we can actually have our influence increase per turn vs the city states with which we have trade routes. I'd focus on city states that have uranium and then the highest GPT.

Yep, good idea.

  • Social Policy - I think we should focus on cutting unhappiness while moving towards the influencing city states on tier 3.

Sounds like a plan.
 
Remember there are two proposals that I put forth for discussion: post 31 and 33. I'd like to see them seconded or have changes suggested.

Melda, I think you should put your luxury resource proposal back on the floor. I thought it was a good idea.
 
Remember there are two proposals that I put forth for discussion: post 31 and 33. I'd like to see them seconded or have changes suggested.

I second post 31 and 33, rendering them ready for a vote on the weekend.

Melda, I think you should put your luxury resource proposal back on the floor. I thought it was a good idea.

I propose the following motion: that surplus luxury items are traded to other nations to acquire new luxury resources (for this to be the most effective we should exchange embassies with any trading partners first) to bring our peoples' happiness back into safe territory. If there are any leftover surplus luxury resources, trade them to other countries for gold per turn to assist with our treasury situation. Then we should trade old-fashioned strategic resources (by which I mean only coal and earlier resource types) that are not in use to other countries for gold per turn. It is intended that countries we would intend to be friendly with or eventually allied to would have precedence, but this should be just a general ethos, and the president shall have discretion to negotiation as the president wishes.

I will go load up Civ and see if I have any suggestions for Debedo and general production orders.
 
With regard to build orders, I think we should employ all* coastal cities in the production of cargo ships. These ships can then be transferred immediately to the city you previously suggested to get the trade bonus.

I think we should try and further our scientific explorations through sending the James Webb Space Telescope into orbit. Hubble only has a few years of operational life left in it, and I really think we should push the envelope further.

I think Anchorage, being separated from the rest of the continental U.S. should have an airport built at the earliest possibility.

Honolulu I think needs to build a factory to increase its productive output.

And regarding Dededo . . . I can't in good conscience second a motion to deny the self-determination and wishes of the people of Guam. They want further integration with the U.S., as a commonwealth, union with Hawai'i, or even statehood, not to be cut loose. And I am not sure how the strongly Roman Catholic island would integrate with the Muslim majority of Indonesia, nor that Indonesia would even necessarily be interested in taking on the territory. I apologise for my intransigence on this issue but cannot support it.

((Out of character your suggestion is a sound one. But in character I don't know how I could support it. :) Maybe the citizens hold a controversial and highly divisive referendum to join Japan and we facilitate their handover that way . . . that could work. I say controversial because of the history in the region . . . and yet today the island receives huge numbers of Japanese tourists. Maybe in our hypothetical scenario an anti-American, Japanophile party wins a majority in the legislature and causes the above. That the U.S. isn't interested in further incorporation but the Japanese might be. What do you think?))


*not quite all; exceptions mentioned.
 
I vote yes to amend Section 2.04 as proposed.

I vote yes to amend Section 5.02 as proposed.

I vote yes to creating Article IX as proposed.
 
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