The 2024 US Presidential Election

[Gori the Grey]

No, the situation where that was the solution was a very specific one!

(Not to mention, the baby didn't actually end up getting split!)

One of the extremes was the correct extreme and Solomon in his wisdom found the way to find that out.

 

[Angst]

You leave no ground upon which the sides can meet in respect. You leave no ground upon which the hate and bitterness can be absent. You leave only ground upon which blood and sweat will be met with blood and sweat under which the dead will bear witness.

dems keep trying to each across the isle, and reps keep not being reciprocal, and exploiting it when dems do. and when dems don't, they do what you do here, call dems out as though they're the obstructionists.

so you did A Rhetorical Thing and left the practical discussion to get into some handwaving about principles. it may work other places, it may even work convincing yourself, but people here aren't buying it. so:

to get out of your abstraction here, and into the concrete - you were talking scotus - reps deliberately blocked any democratic appointment of any scotus justice until they got a republican in office. this way they could control who got appointed, and they timed it so they hit a bunch.

so don't you say any damn thing about dems not meeting reps in good faith.

Cutlass, how would negotiate peace between the parties or do you have another approach?

there's two cases here. one is that the reps stop their behavior (making your perspective pointless, as you're just one vote), or you can change your behavior. only one of those is within your control.

so what about you refuse to vote for a party that pushes for obstruction?

dems are actually quite patient with policy they don't like. most voters are like that, across democratic nations. part of a functioning democracy is accepting laws you don't like. but they're quite miffed at the obstruction and are scared at trump's dictator shpiel. dems as a voter group like a proper process.

you can't tear the paper in pieces and put the burden on other people for not putting it back together. that's your line of Rhetorical Thing. that's why your peace consolidation shpiel is hollow.

-

and i want to stress, btw. this is not an attack. i'm actually trying to give you advice. because if you actually want peace? maybe you don't, but - if you actually want consolidation, this is not the way to do it. it's kind of ridiculous to read

 

[Birdjaguar]

To fix SCOTUS we need an upper age limit (forced retirement) and we need term limits (20 years is long enough). Putting 45 year olds on the court so they can be there for 40 years is just wrong.

 

[Core Imposter]

To fix SCOTUS we need an upper age limit (forced retirement) and we need term limits (20 years is long enough). Putting 45 year olds on the court so they can be there for 40 years is just wrong.

I don't really understand why this would fix anything. Doesn't age and experience begat wisdom? And how does an 80 year old justice have any reason to play team ball? A 65 yr. old might want to make a deal for a cushy retirement and that's one of the reasons not to limit the term.

Also, you now have a ton of institutional knowledge that would be lost due to mandatory retirement.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I don't really understand why this would fix anything. Doesn't age and experience begat wisdom? And how does an 80 year old justice have any reason to play team ball? A 65 yr. old might want to make a deal for a cushy retirement and that's one of the reasons not to limit the term.

Also, you now have a ton of institutional knowledge that would be lost due to mandatory retirement.

All you have to do is look at both Thomas an Alito to see how both are corrupted. Thomas has been on the court for over 30 years and Alito for 25. Their "knowledge" is just far right conservative politics put into action. If you read their decisions they are trying to roll back the last 50 years of SCOTUS rulings on the fake basis that they know what the founders meant. They have a deliberate agenda that is not based on law, but on politics. Thomas wants Trump re-elected so he can retire (bribes in hand) and be assured he will be replaced by a Republican president. You can see how they are making every effort to slow down the DOJ trials so they will not happen before November.

The SCOTUS has always been a lagging indicator because of their lifetime appointment. No one is as sharp at 75 as they were at 60. Sorry Charlie. Speedier turnover will fresh minds to the bench and make the future changes more predictable. It won't stop hypocrits like McConnell from gaming the system for political purposes, but it would help.

 

[Core Imposter]

Oh, I see. Your solution is driven by your political leaning. Would that be a fair statement? A solution that drives out 2 alleged partisans of your opposition party? And you'd have Roberts out next year. Would you grandfather that change in?

 

[Zardnaar]

Oh, I see. Your solution is driven by your political leaning. Would that be a fair statement? A solution that drives out 2 alleged partisans of your opposition party? And you'd have Roberts out next year. Would you grandfather that change in?

Lifetime appointments mean that very old members are severely out of touch with the modern world. They're 2 or 3 generations removed from modern problems.

They grew up I'm a very different world and that first 20 years of your life is massively influential on the rest of your life.

 

[Comrade Ceasefire]

Oh, I see. Your solution is driven by your political leaning. Would that be a fair statement? A solution that drives out 2 alleged partisans of your opposition party? And you'd have Roberts out next year. Would you grandfather that change in?

Easy peasy. All you need is for people to realize that the current system is stacked against them; that they are not bound by any arrangements made by their predecessors; to have about 75% support, and to have the military on their side.

 

[Narz]

No one is as sharp at 75 as they were at 60.

I don't think that is necessarily true.

Society coddles old people and there is a socially reinforced tendency to get stuck in one's ways (the media plays a big part in this and general overwhelm @ the pace of change) but I don't think the is some ironclad law of nature.

Processing speed does decline and some of that may well be inevitable (or at least very hard to correct) but overall sharpness and wisdom? That should increase (ideally).

Note : this is tangential to the subject being discussed. Re : supreme Court or any super powerful regulatory body, people there should have to reprove themselves every 4 years like presidents (and be voted on not appointed).

 

[Lexicus]

The issue here is not cognitive ability but the allegiance to far-right politics that, in the case of Alito and Thomas at least, are far outside the mainstream of civilized society.

If you want to fix the Court the simplest*way to do it is not to impose term limits but to have the President be elected by popular vote; if that were the case, then Thomas would be the only Justice presently put on the Court by a GOP President.

5 of the justices having been appointed by Presidents who lost the popular vote is the real problem, not the age and not really the "corruption" stuff either. For example, I think the complaints about Thomas basically receiving bribes are valid and he should be thrown off the Court by rights, but to the extent that critics are suggesting that he is accepting bribes in exchange for delivering conservative outcomes, I think that is incorrect. His ideology is the real problem.

*simple in the sense that it's an actual solution. Using Congress to pack the court by imposing term limits or adding justices simply allows for the GOP to do the same thing when it controls Congress. If the GOP had the Senate, House, and Presidency they'd have no shame whatever about, say, imposing a 1 year term limit on the Court and then changing it back to lifetime tenure as soon as they finished replacing all the liberal justices.

 

[Gorbles]

Doesn't age and experience begat wisdom?

Not really, no.

 

[choxorn]

If you want to fix the Court the simplest*way to do it is not to impose term limits but to have the President be elected by popular vote; if that were the case, then Thomas would be the only Justice presently put on the Court by a GOP President.

FWIW, Alito and Roberts were both appointed by Dubya in the term where he actually won the popular vote, but of course in the alternate-universe 2000's where Gore rightfully becomes president, that could easily affect the outcome of the 2004 election.

 

[Core Imposter]

Gore never rightfully won the presidency. Rule of law and all that.

 

[Core Imposter]

Not really, no.

Maybe you aren't old enough to judge rightly?

 

[Lexicus]

Gore never rightfully won the presidency. Rule of law and all that.

If it had been any other country in the world with this much oil and the election being decided by the vote of a guy who was appointed by one of the candidates' daddies, the US would have invaded it to "bring democracy" within six months.

 

[Gorbles]

Maybe you aren't old enough to judge rightly?

I hope that when I'm older I have the grace to not confirm a tautology just because it might benefit me in an argument.

 

[Core Imposter]

I hope that when I'm older I have the grace to not confirm a tautology just because it might benefit me in an argument.

I am not interested in getting into arguments with people smarter than me. Or less smart either, if it were possible. Debate is a sin. All I am interested in is conversing. Most of the time I don't really understand what the people here are saying. But it is stimulating, sometimes very, to hear people say things that are quite evidently contradictory to reality and yet, it's obvious that they are stating a truth from the perspective of their world view.

As for grace, the only grace I have is from God, in abundance and am unworthy of it. May God bless you likewise, seven times over.

 

[Lexicus]

But it is stimulating, sometimes very, to hear people say things that are quite evidently contradictory to reality and yet, it's obvious that they are stating a truth from the perspective of their world view.

Well this kind of vagueposting is not stimulating at all. Name names, use the quote function

 

[Comrade Ceasefire]

Well this kind of vagueposting is not stimulating at all. Name names, use the quote function

As for grace, the only grace I have is from God, in abundance and am unworthy of it. May God bless you likewise, seven times over.

 

[Core Imposter]

There is nothing wrong with being a bible salesman.

At a time in his life when he could just sit back and live off the largesse of the American people (social security) this man is contributing to the velocity of money in our economy. Laudable.

If you try, you can find something good to say about anyone.