The Deity Challenge Line-up #39 - Austria

[Sclb]

T297 Dom V

Decided to take advantage of the UA and I believe the most effective use of it is for Dom V.

Spoiler :

Starting dirt wasn't so great, but still settled 4 cities for tradition turtle until artillery. DoW on Babylon early to steal workers and prevent them from settling 3rd city near my land, ended up crippling them as it forced them to settle their 3rd city and so on in the snow area south. Eventually peace with Babylon once I finished my 4th city and signed the only DoF in the game. And for that, I decided to leave them until the last civ to kill.

SP was Tradition Honor Commerce Autocracy with some points in Rationalism.
Wonders: Oracle, Leaning tower of Piza, Machu Picchu, used the GE from Piza for Big Ben, Porcelain Tower, Faith bought GE for Prora, Neuschwanstein, Pentagon, Great Firewall.

Science was good due to having at least 13 GS bulbs in the game from Piza bonus + Coffee House Bonus on top of some gardens. Maintained significant tech lead since Renaissance.

Annexed Hanoi and Belgrade, both military CS once they stopped giving me their UU. Hanoi's unit upgraded into Hussar, Belgrade's upgraded into gatlings. Immediately after annexing them, started war with Huns at T132 to train units and to get gold from honor. Military CS are the best for annex early due to their army allowed me to focus hammer on infrastructure for growth. Used only CS units to wage the early part of Huns war. Only started building units once I reached the window for Hussar + Artillery combo. Took detour for Frigate afterwards to help on the coastal capitals. However the map geography was annoying that the west and east coast was not connected until I captured a canal city through Shoshone land which connected the 2 coasts.

Battle with Huns was long due to a choke point and required artillery to break through. Finally broke through T209, captured city on isthmus with help of my first navy (eastern navy). Captured a few more Hunnic cities for resources after Attila's court. Immediately started the Russian war after signing peace as Russia DoW on Huns and it was a good chance to kill their offensive units. Moscow fell very quickly as they were no match for my industrial era units. My eastern navy attacked Huns, then Russia. Japan was reachable from the east, but decided to bribe them against Shoshone so that I can delay attacking them until I dealt with the rest of the civ.

Western front required some offensive annexing of CS. For that purpose, picked La Venta and Jerusalem for this purpose. Both religious CS which were also good choice for annexing. In both of these cases, they provided me a place to land troops and to rush buy units on new land. In the case of La Venta, they also had a massive navy which was upgraded to battleship/destroyers eventually to form the backbone of my western navy.

T248 DoW on Aztecs, swimmed my entire army over and landed in La Venta. Finished around T260, then onto Shoshone war after annexing Jerusalem and marching army through there. Shoshone had the highest tech out of the remaining civs and they had battleship/carriers/planes at the time of the attack, but still fell quickly due to their numbers were vastly diminished by the ongoing war with Japan. Lost some of my navy due to their GWB until my own carriers arrived with my own fighters/bombers. Shoshone build a significant number of wonders including Forbidden palace which was a great help on happiness. The AI civ had very poor tourism this game and I stayed Content the entire game so I could afford to raze most of the cities.

Finished off Shoshone and DoW Japan T282 by sailing through the canal in Shoshone land. Also my eastern navy sailed from Russian land to attack Japan's other coast and it destroyed their navy and onto Constantinople while my army marched from Shoshone land to take Kyoto. Liberated a few Byzantine cities on the way. At this point, my army consisted of ranged Machine guns, tanks, rocket artillery.
Finished with capturing Babylon in 2 turns after airlifting my army back to my own continent.

Religion was Babylon's which had happy temple and Mosques and faith from tundra. Lost the race to my own religion when 5th founded 5 turns after chance to receive prophet.

 

[Blatc]

T194 DomV

99 turns slower than on the Spain DCL, but I'm very happy to have pulled off another 'illiterate challenge'. I did this just for fun and to see if I could do it, whereas on the Spain map it was arguably the optimal/fastest route to victory:
-did not tech Writing until it was the only tech I could steal (T130)
-built 0 libraries, so obviously no National College
-no Education
-no Rationalism policies
I got my science from the other civs via Trade Routes or capturing/marrying cities which (usually) had libraries and eventually Universities

Got a late pantheon and just used it to get some culture and finish Liberty sooner. Only a few civs founded religions and I started getting faith from the cities I captured, so eventually founded and mainly just used it to get a bit of money (100 gold when city first converts)

~T65 Married a CS that had 5 comp bows (had 3 CS allies around this time and married the one with most comps), added 2 of my own and some melee, and sent them West as army #1, while building up army #2 back home
T83 used Liberty Finisher on Merchant as I needed money to upgrade the Comb bows
-West army started war with plan to capture weaker/expo city and be able to upgrade to Xbows immediately
T90 Machinery
T93 2nd army started war. Slow start, moving along a thin strip of land, but I wanted to take out the biggest nearby threat first. I kept a slow pace with the Eastern army to maintain trades/friendships with neighbours, as I expected the Western army plus any CS I married could handle those civs; I was wrong, primarily in that there weren't any good CS options to marry.
Things went quite smoothly for the first 5 capitals, after which my Western army started dying off and there weren't any good CS to use my UA on: any nearby CS had either been captured or their armies were worn down from war.
The end game involved spending 20-30 turns sending a massive army West for the final 2 capitals, using 4 GG for citadels on civ with Great Wall, buying 10+ cannons and some muskets, and sending lots of units on suicide runs (as I had plenty to spare).
I only married 2 CS, both close to capital.

Edit to add: founded 1 expo with free Liberty settler - placed it in location that meant my first 2 cities had TR access to 3 different civs. This lead to a (brief) peak of 8 Trade Routes (2 outgoing, 6 incoming) that propelled my early science.

Spoiler :

 

[peddroelm]

T130 Writting
T90 Machinery

Mind blown

 

[stormtrooper412]

You guys make that whole conquest thing look easy, geez <_<

 

[consentient]

Say, what happens when a CS captures an AI cap and then you marry it? Do you get two for the price of one?

This is a very interesting question. I shall have to experiment.

Nice wins coming in on this map!

 

[claudiupb]

I expect to get them both for the price of one. At least this is how it works for Venice with the Merchant of Venice.

 

[beetle]

So I finally got a T399 (!) SV out of this game.

I assumed the map settings meant little food, so I went ye olde 4-city Tradition to try and make up for that. Did anyone see the start as an invitation for a bunch of small Liberty cities?

I had planned to use the UA every chance I got just because -- but I never had the money.

In the first part of the game, it seemed like things were going pretty well, and I was first to Ideologies. That is pretty unusual for me! So I thought I would just turtle to Order SV. I miss-clicked and found myself in Autocracy! So I tried for CV but that was very slow going. After Internet and then Pentagon and then GFW, I started building SS parts. Even at turn 399 I was three parts ahead of everyone (but I had beaten up on the closest neighbor trying to get a CV from autocracy).

I am going to reload way back, put my two filler into Aesthetics instead of Commerce, and then see if I can't get truly peaceful Freedom CV. I think this might be the least competition I have felt from Deity AIs.

Say, what happens when a CS captures an AI cap and then you marry it? Do you get two for the price of one?

Yes, but I think it bumps up the base price a bit. I had expected the option to liberate -- but no.

The other surprise was not needing to build courthouses after annexing. Does that mean anything more than a few turns of productivity? Should I be annexing sooner? It still seems like puppets > annex because of otherwise increasing SP and NW costs. No turns of anarchy is nice, and not unexpected, but the no-courthouse-needed aspect really makes me think I should reconsider things.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Strange kind of game so far:

Spoiler :

Settled in place, Scout, Monument, Scout. Triple deer made a good opener, stole a total of two workers, 3 city NC turn 79 which was really really good as I rarely do it before T90. Saved up gold and bought Hanoi immediately after, which was 9 pop and pretty much all buildings available at the time. Manpanzee was right, if used well, Austria can be quite potent. I might buy a few more when it's all said and done.

Only mistake so far was not accepting Russian friendship because I thought the Huns might get angry, but the Huns are a non factor, so it will be only one RA with Theo, oh well. Gonna do a Culture win

 

[SooHongLoo]

T194 DomV

99 turns slower than on the Spain DCL, but I'm very happy to have pulled off another 'illiterate challenge'. I did this just for fun and to see if I could do it, whereas on the Spain map it was arguably the optimal/fastest route to victory:
-did not tech Writing until it was the only tech I could steal (T130)
-built 0 libraries, so obviously no National College
-no Education
-no Rationalism policies
I got my science from the other civs via Trade Routes or capturing/marrying cities which (usually) had libraries and eventually Universities

Got a late pantheon and just used it to get some culture and finish Liberty sooner. Only a few civs founded religions and I started getting faith from the cities I captured, so eventually founded and mainly just used it to get a bit of money (100 gold when city first converts)

~T65 Married a CS that had 5 comp bows (had 3 CS allies around this time and married the one with most comps), added 2 of my own and some melee, and sent them West as army #1, while building up army #2 back home
T83 used Liberty Finisher on Merchant as I needed money to upgrade the Comb bows
-West army started war with plan to capture weaker/expo city and be able to upgrade to Xbows immediately
T90 Machinery
T93 2nd army started war. Slow start, moving along a thin strip of land, but I wanted to take out the biggest nearby threat first. I kept a slow pace with the Eastern army to maintain trades/friendships with neighbours, as I expected the Western army plus any CS I married could handle those civs; I was wrong, primarily in that there weren't any good CS options to marry.
Things went quite smoothly for the first 5 capitals, after which my Western army started dying off and there weren't any good CS to use my UA on: any nearby CS had either been captured or their armies were worn down from war.
The end game involved spending 20-30 turns sending a massive army West for the final 2 capitals, using 4 GG for citadels on civ with Great Wall, buying 10+ cannons and some muskets, and sending lots of units on suicide runs (as I had plenty to spare).
I only married 2 CS, both close to capital.

Edit to add: founded 1 expo with free Liberty settler - placed it in location that meant my first 2 cities had TR access to 3 different civs. This lead to a (brief) peak of 8 Trade Routes (2 outgoing, 6 incoming) that propelled my early science.

I am not sure when I will have the time to complete another game. I still have to finish the DCL 22 Brazil game before anything else.

After reading through this game I am constantly asking the question if this strategy can be replicated with high % of success playing blind with no reloads/replays. Even if I could get a 33% success rate with this type of game I would be very happy! I am sure it comes down to player style and I am pretty sure that you have to know when it is time to change your strategy.

My two big problems with this is that I think you have to have map knowledge and it seems that if you can't get enough Trade Routes up for the SPT your up the river without a paddle so to speak.

Obviously, this is a way to win and win fast but I just keep asking myself how I can go into a game blind and win the game 90% or more using this UnEducated Strategy/Style of play?

I would like to see more of a guide to this style of play if possible though. I have so many questions I really do not know where to begin. I suppose the best comment on this game was Peddroelm's Quote...

T130 Writting
T90 Machinery

Mind blown !!!

I just keep thinking that it must be very difficult to get enough TRs coming into your Civ and if you don't have them you will just not have enough SPT to breeze through. Perhaps I am wrong lol... once again I am pretty boggled but I am thinking this is a very low success rate unless you play the map over and over until you get that perfect storm.

One thing I like to do with Austria is build a bunch of archers and send them to the CS that I will marry later down the road which is kinda like teleporting my troops through a time zone. The nice thing is that they will even upgrade them to CBs and that saves on upgrading cost but you have to come up with the 600 or so gold to marry. This gets stronger if you can get the CS as your ally through only quests instead of paying gold.

 

[consentient]

Without being too confrontational about it (I hope), I'd love to see an LP using that strategy without any reloads.

 

[Blatc]

What I did was a silly, low % of success strategy to use on this map and I would not have pulled it off without previous map knowledge or replays; I made several attempts and continued the 'perfect storm' one.

This illiterate strategy holds weight on a very strong/OP map like the Spain Terra map, where I didn't use any trade routes in either of my full games. I will likely only try this again on a strong map.

I'd suggest reading this post, and consider the suggestion from Acken to bulb the GS instead of planting
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13861847&postcount=227

 

[stormtrooper412]

I don't think a blind run is possible or very efficient. No reloads are one thing, but not knowing the map and where the AIs are may be the killing blow

 

[Blatc]

stormtrooper412, consider maps such as Terra, Lakes, and Pangaea with high seas.
Also consider the fastest DomVs, such as Huns; are people are teching Writing when attempting sub-T100 wins?

 

[stormtrooper412]

I suppose you do have a point. If the Huns show up on Immortal I'll try that but perhaps it may not be as viable

update turn 160ish:

Spoiler :

the map is really hurting the AI a lot, as nobody snowballed yet, city locations are hard to come by and I'm considering starting to gobble up the city states for the lulz

I managed to score Sistine and Machu without much problem, currently doing both Pisa and Globe T, unlikely to get the second one as I've started it a fair bit late but I'm assuming Pisa would be alright. I'll eat up perhaps 2 more city states and try to dig up the map. Then hotels and I'll leg it towards Internet. Probably a 270ish finish.

I'm friends with Theo and Monty, have RAs going with both (maybe ?, not sure if I renewed Theo's), Japan ate Shoshone (HA!), and the eastern front is one eternal stalemate in which Huns are trying to break down Russia but Cathy is containing the dude easily. Next batch of gold will be used to ally the 2nd cultural city state, I'll have the UBs soon and hopefully nobody will clear out the barb camp that will ally me with half the map

 

[reddishrecue]

Huns do have a deadly rush machine uniqueness to them.

 

[stormtrooper412]

yeah but it's pretty much a one-off (?) attack, an all-in zerg rush that either works or leaves them in the dark. The defender survived and now they're pretty much a non factor, like I said

 

[consentient]

I can't recall ever having seen a runaway Attila on Deity. A good UA (like Greece, Shoshone, Monty) > a good UU.

The most often runaways are the expansionists, on account of how much stronger an AI willing to go beyond 6 cities can be: Alex, Pocatello, Shaka, Dido, Hiawatha, Bismarck and Casimir.

 

[RedRover57]

Enjoyable map - thanks for posting.

Pretty standard Tradition/Commerce/Rationalism SV. Took Freedom because of the Aztecs tourism pressure. Settled my capital to the south next to the mountain - turned out to be a good decision. Three city NC. Settled 4th city (salt city - placed units on the potential settling spots over there to stop the AI from settling it) after the NC. "Married" Hanoi first, then Bratislava a bit later. Both of them provided all the troops I needed to defend in the early/mid game.

Only wars were: (1) early war to capture a Babylonian settler as he tried to do an end-around to settle north of my capital - stole several additional workers from them, (2) I DoWed Attila after he captured Babylon in the mid game and took it for myself and (3) Shoshone DoWed me late in the game and I razed a couple of their close crappy ice cities before signing peace.

The only other eventful thing was winning the International Games to stop the Aztecs from doubling their tourism pressure. There was basically no way that they could win CV though, or diplomatic (they had a grip on most of the CS, but many of them were captured by AI civs eventually).

The only disappointment was that I specifically played this DC because I realized that I had never finished a game as Austria, but for some reason I still didn't get the Steam achievement.

Spoiler :

 

[reddishrecue]

I can't recall ever having seen a runaway Attila on Deity. A good UA (like Greece, Shoshone, Monty) > a good UU.

The most often runaways are the expansionists, on account of how much stronger an AI willing to go beyond 6 cities can be: Alex, Pocatello, Shaka, Dido, Hiawatha, Bismarck and Casimir.

Im pretty sure horse archers could get some good promotions before upgrading to knights. I had horse archers with logistics +range once and all was wasted except for the three beginning promotions for bonuses in either smooth or rough terrains. If logistics could give knights an extra turn to attack like blitz does then that would be great.

 

[Sclb]

Only march and logistics carry over from horse archers. Logistics is identical to blitz and do not stack. Barrage and Accuracy don't work for melee units. I've never seen an AI get all the way to logistics+range however.