The Great DoC UHV v 1.11 challenge

[Wessel V1]

I did an attempt to do India but I got stuck on the second goal, since I only got 18 temples. Zoroastrianism helps a great deal but I wasn't fast enough to conquer Persepolis. I think it should be the prime target when Alexander arrives, even before the Tamils. I think that the UHV is doable since I didn't use the whip a lot, I was a bit lazy spreading religions and I razed some cities because their location would be horrible in the long run, but it's a tricky one. Yes, I'm still a bit rusty.

 

[Fresol]

What SVN revision is it?

750 it is.

 

[Xfactor]

I did an attempt to do India but I got stuck on the second goal, since I only got 18 temples. Zoroastrianism helps a great deal but I wasn't fast enough to conquer Persepolis. I think it should be the prime target when Alexander arrives, even before the Tamils. I think that the UHV is doable since I didn't use the whip a lot, I was a bit lazy spreading religions and I razed some cities because their location would be horrible in the long run, but it's a tricky one. Yes, I'm still a bit rusty.

instead of going for persepolis why dont you try to find christianity? In my india game i was 1 turn away from founding it when persia got it in some city near babilon, idk if indians can discover christianity tho, also it was around 100AD so it could be auto discover but still it wasnt in jerusalem

 

[Wessel V1]

I didn't think of that to be honest. If you postpone founding Dhaka, is Pataliputra your new capital / holy city of Hinduism? I think with both Hinduism and Buddhism being founded there, it has a pretty insane GP-rate so Islam could well be a possibility as well.

 

[ales_]

Thank you! The OP was updated to post #319. Fresol and Bechamel are both credited for Tibet 600 AD.

 

[ales_]

The winning dates in the OP which were in turns (Egypt, Babylonia, Greece, Phoenicia) were changed to years.
BTW, Wessel V1, I've deleted your Greece 3000 BC victory because it isn't an achievement.

 

[Wessel V1]

Why? In the OP it is stated that a higher score is a valid reason to post a save as well. Of course you can't compare Normal game speed with Epic game speed in terms of final score if that was the reasoning behind it.

 

[ales_]

Citis has the highest score on Normal, Alhambram has the highest score on Monarch.

 

[Wessel V1]

I'm sorry, but that's no reasoning at all to me. If Michael Phelps is the best swimmer, Vicenzo Nibali the best cyclist and Usain Bolt the best runner on earth, why bother challenging them for the triathlon? No, it's a very specific framework. For example, difficulty level obviously plays a big role in terminating the final score. A higher level constitutes a higher score, ceteris paribus. At the same time, speeds are incomparable. Even at a level where everything would lead to the exact same results, which is highly unlikely especially in a set up world like RFC (DoC), things like unit movement mean a lot. For example, on faster game speeds, being in time to conquer the needed lands is tricky and requires full attention which you can't put in improving the economy. Improving the economy leads to better scores, etc. and also, not unimportant for RFC-esque goals, faster UHVs. Besides, you could also argue Ororo's score should actually be replaced, because he has the lower score in exactly the same circumstances as my game. Which of course you shouldn't, because he has the faster time. But I have the better score, so both should be in by the logic of the OP.

Anyway, I'm at 2/3 of a Monarch Normal Aztec game now, I'll post it when it's finished.

 

[Fresol]

Indeed, I think games are comparable only when they are of the same difficulty and speed. And inthis case, Wessel V1's game should qualify. Besides, it's more recent.

 

[ales_]

This will be to difficult to do because there will be too much victories in the OP. I'm sorry.

 

[Wessel V1]

Well, that's indeed true but then having a higher score should be strictly ruled out since that's the only thing my save lacks compared to Ororo's, which is indeed quite some SVN versions older as well.

But then again, there are numerous options still possible per civ. Difficulty level (3) * game speed (3) * starting year (up to 3). It could be up till 27, all incomparable scores. You could leave starting year out and just give a notion of the year used, leaving 9. Then, you could say that arguably, all slower game speeds make it easier to accomplish UHVs since time is usually the constraint that catches you out. So, I'd propose Normal game speed to be the official game speed for records. Then, only difficulty level matters, all other variables except for game speed are free. Granted, I think a higher score is not nearly as interesting as an earlier UHV since there are so many contributing factors (notably population), so I'm happy to let that criterium drop.

I don't want to be stated in the OP per se, but I think the rules should be clear, exclusive and exhaustive and fair as well. Which, in the current situation, they're not.

 

[Fresol]

Spoiler :

Tamils, Monarch, Normal, SVN revision 571

Finish date: 1000 AD (Virtual victory 910 AD)
Score: 11744

Tamils are quite rough. Well at least the way I played them. Leoreth probably intended them to be the peaceful traders of Indian Ocean, slowly building up their few coastal cities... I decided to unleash their warrior spirits instead.

I decided to settle my capital in place and the 2nd city on top of the island iron. Both are quite productive and both started pumping units after their granary/harbor/barracks combo. At the beginning, you need catapults, axemen and galleys.

It's important to send a galley along with an archer to meet all the AIs and try to trade for some early techs (Alpha, Maths). Currency should be prioritized as the most important tech.

It's hard to give generic advice about the combat. You are fighting against an AI that has far more cities and thus much better production capacity. However, if you play it smart, use galleys to your advantage and workers as your frontline scouts (station them in jungle hills, only elephants can attack them there), you can overcome the AI unit spam.

Once you have access to Markets, whip one in each of you core cities and start running the merchants. Make sure you don't pollute your GP pool with any other points.

After Currency, head straight for Drama and run the culture slider until you accumulate enough culture. Trade missions to Mecca or some other capital should give you plenty of gold. However, it's always nice to sell some outdated techs to AI as well.

Don't forget to prepare a decent force for Khmer and Indonesia and attack them once the forced peace wears off. Then it's just the matter of dealing with your abysmal stability and recapturing the revolting cities.

Fun fact: I was actually doing so well techwise that I managed to research Liberalism by the end and grabbed Printing Press for free. Tamils would have been a great domination civ had they not had such a small stability map.

Otherwise, it was a fun game, although judging by the frustratingly sucky stability I was maybe a bit too aggresive.

I tried a few times with the Tamils and found it very hard to fight the Indians. They have better units and production and better economy as well. Any tips?

 

[Fresol]

After a few tries I decided to attack India at start. Their only city on Deccan is Mumbai so I sneak attacked it with 2 swordsmen and a war elephant. With some luck I took the city(1 garrison) with no loss. Then I destroyed their iron connection and retreated. Basically the game is already won by then.

They got crippled in military and couldn't pose a threat to me. And I just farmed up peacefully. I have to say Tamil production modifier is quite nice, whipping could do a lot of work.

I popped a Great Artist for the first UHV goal and later 2 Great Merchants for the third one. The starting galley with navigation I promotion(free win against barb trireme) and
4 swordsmen took care of Indonesia.

Even though the game is won, I still have no idea how to take northern India like Ororo did in his game. In every game India always have tons of units and cities and faster(than me) research speed, without Currency/mercenary I can't imagine how to beat them.

edit: revision 752

 

[Wessel V1]

If there is a large stack in the city, use a lot of catapults. First, destroy their defences and then sacrifice some. At 2/3rd of their strength defenders are usually easy targets, so if you have a stack nearby, don't forget a medic, cities should fall.

 

[Fresol]

Hmm, that's the general tactics when you have a decent number of troops. But in this case, there's no productive cities in southern India, and we need to build granaries and let cities grow from 1 pop... It's not clear to me how to raise an army fast enough. Catapults take around 5 turns to build and the logistics... there's also barb war elephants here and there, also the first UHV goal is rather pressing which means no Construction, we need to beeline Currency.

 

[Wessel V1]

I see you're playing on Emperor level, that makes a difference I suppose. Maybe you could try spending your espionage points only on India, to trigger unrest in a city?

Or, perhaps some kind of specialized city that has a lot of settles slaves and for example the Opera House. Just throwing in some ideas here. Maybe even take a look at Persia, Persepolis is a mighty city if you can get control over it.

 

[Fresol]

I see you're playing on Emperor level, that makes a difference I suppose. Maybe you could try spending your espionage points only on India, to trigger unrest in a city?

Or, perhaps some kind of specialized city that has a lot of settles slaves and for example the Opera House. Just throwing in some ideas here. Maybe even take a look at Persia, Persepolis is a mighty city if you can get control over it.

I did all except the slave thing in my Ethiopia game. But with Tamils, there's no time for espionage, almost impossible to try anything about slaves, and, Parsa is swarmed by barb horse archers.

 

[ales_]

Wessel V1, I agree that the rules must be clear and fair.
Here is an explanation:
1) Victories on different scenarios are separated because the starting situation can't be compared.
2) For victories as one civ on one scenario, there is a theoretical maximum of 6 achievements:
a) highest score;
b) highest score on Monarch;
c) highest score on Normal;
d) earliest winning date;
e) earliest winning date on Monarch;
f) earliest winning date on Normal.
Fresol, it's not an achievement.

 

[Wessel V1]

But you see that's a really non-exhaustive list, right? For example, if I am the only one to win a civ on Emperor but it doesn't meet these criteria, which could be perfectly possible, then it can not be put in the list. Some combinations of settings are clearly preferred over others, by the arbitrary nature of the list. That's what makes it flawed IMHO. Therefore, please consider my alternate proposal. Of course, current victories with Epic game speed could be maintained, perhaps like an honoural mention or something like that. But the status quo is in my opinion a very unsatisfying solution.