The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #18

[Fluphen Azine]

You - Iroquois
Total Civilizations - 8
Total City States - 16
Map – Fractal
Settings – Quick Movement / Quick Combat (turn it off if you like)
Barbs - Normal
Standard Map / Standard Pace
Starting Era - Ancient
Game Version - Civ V BNW

DLC – G&K, BNW, Conquest of the New World Deluxe, Mongolia, Denmark, Spain,
The Inca Empire, The Polynesian Empire, Babylon, Korea, Wonders of the Ancient World.
The map packs are intentionally excluded.


Iroquois Empire

Spoiler :

Leader: Hiawatha
Unique Unit: Mohawk Warrior (Replaces Swordsman)
Unique Building: Longhouse (Replaces Workshop)
Unique Ability: The Great Warpath:
Units move through Forest and Jungle in friendly territory as if they were Roads.
These tiles can be used to establish City Connections upon researching The Wheel.
Caravans move along Forest and Jungle as if they were Roads.
Start Bias: Forest

Starting Location

Spoiler :

These are Optional Challenges if you would like to participate!

Optional Challenge 1 : Full Piety First / No Tradition or Liberty / Domination VC
Optional Challenge 2 : Full Liberty First / No Tradition / Cultural VC
Optional Challenge 3 : Scientific / Diplomatic VC (Increase LBs)


Possible Problems

Spoiler :

This map could be considered on the boring or slow side. I know that on turn 20 it is frustrating me... that is why I chose it!
Also I find the UU/UB/UA useless in general and perhaps more so on this map!

Schedule

Spoiler :

Game #1 - July 23rd as Japan
Game #2 - August 6th as Poland
Game #3 - August 20th as Ottomans
Game #4 - September 3rd as Arabia
Game #5 - September 17th as Brazil
Game #6 - October 1st as Denmark
Game #7 - October 15th as Songhai
Game #8 - October 29th as Sweden
Game #9 - November 13th as India
Game #10 - November 26th as Russia
Game #11 - December 10th as Germany
Game #12 - December 24th as Aztecs
Game #13 - January 7th as Egypt
Game #14 - January 18th as France
Game #15 - January 25th as Austria
Game #16 - February 7th as Siam
Game #17 - February 14th as Venice

Information & Rules

Spoiler :

All games in this series will be set to IMMORTAL difficulty.

User civilizations, maps, and opponents will change each game, but the pace will always be set at standard and the starting era will always be ancient. We will try for a variety of starts, and not just having a crazy warmonger as your next door neighbor (although there will be that too). This isn't a competition so there will be no predefined victory conditions.

Who can play?

Anybody can play. The more the merrier. Even if you normally don't play immortal games you are still welcome to try. The games can become great learning resources for the player trying to improve. Even if you don't finish the game, we are still interested to hear about your experience.

Do's and Don'ts?

We are going to be using the honor system. Feel free to restart, reload, play the same game multiple times, but don't use the science overflow exploit. Also please don't edit the game in IGE. If you do chose to cheat, please don't share your results in the comments. Also, please use the spoiler tag if you post a picture, comment about neighboring civs, close by wonders, or locations of ancient ruins.

Also, please tell us about your Build Order, Social Policies, Tech Order, and what type of wonders you went after. I know a lot of this stuff seems pretty mundane to the experienced player, but the details are incredibly useful to people trying to learn.

Future Games in the Series

Spoiler :

I want users to submit saves from turn 0. Preferably the person submitting the game has played enough turns to know the map is either difficult, fun, or unique in some enjoyable way. Write a short description as to why it is special and email the save to:

immortalchallengelineup@gmail.com

Important Information

If you submit a game for the challenge, you must have the DLC map packs disabled. Not everybody has them and they are honestly kind of useless. Having them disabled will allow more participants.

 

[stormtrooper412]

I'm assuming it's my turn to post the next one, yes?

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I'm assuming it's my turn to post the next one, yes?

I am not sure. I think budweiser is in line to post up on March 9th 2105. After that you post on the 19th but I could be wrong on the schedule
and who is next to post so we will just wait for budweiser to instruct us. I do not think that he is just going to leave us high and dry, so it will
only be a day or two before he lets us know for sure! Since the DCL is posting on the 10th, 20th, and 30th it might be nice for us to post on
the 5th, 15th, and 25th if we are moving to a ten day cycle.

 

[budweiser]

I'm assuming it's my turn to post the next one, yes?

Yes go ahead in 10 days from today. ICL is now coordinated to offset DCL by 5 days. I can wait to post one. I'm not playing a lot of civ these days.

 

[kb27787]

A "meh" start if I ever saw one. Both visible luxes are a pain to improve so I might wander and settle on a cocoa tile somewhere south.
Not obvious what makes this map interesting but I'm sure we'll find out.

 

[neilkaz]

Horrid start for a lousy civ. I'll be happy to not lose this game. If something unexpected is helpful and I find it will be an easy win, I may go back and try one of the optional challenges. Note that I am not a Deity player and while I am winning the majority of my Imm games it is usually with better civs than this.

I expect I'll move my warrior to the SE and see if he sees a better spot to settle.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

A "meh" start if I ever saw one. Both visible luxes are a pain to improve so I might wander and settle on a cocoa tile somewhere south.
Not obvious what makes this map interesting but I'm sure we'll find out.

Spoiler :

I would say the word "interesting" is too broad of a term and what one player finds "interesting" another player will find utterly "boring" or "not interesting" whatsoever! I started this map out with a plan of Full Piety and using Faith to help roll my close by neighbors. I scouted South first thinking that this map was going to start on a very small island. After scouting North I realized the land was not very good and I did not see any Civs nearby. So I hated this map and my original plan was foiled so I chose this map because it frustrated me or upset me... compared to finding it interesting. I also thought a lot of players would hate this Land / Civ / Map which is another reason I chose them. Last reason was because I plan to go Full Piety and Domination which is just a pain because it is going to take a long time so this was another reason for the choice. Of course... I still have a lot to learn about rolling maps and this is my first attempt for this series so I expect some backlash!!

Horrid start for a lousy civ. I'll be happy to not lose this game. If something unexpected is helpful and I find it will be an easy win, I may go back and try one of the optional challenges. Note that I am not a Deity player and while I am winning the majority of my Imm games it is usually with better civs than this.

I expect I'll move my warrior to the SE and see if he sees a better spot to settle.

Spoiler :

I found that most players hate playing this Civ which is why I chose them and I really hated this land myself which was another reason. I thought it might bring some challenge to the game if one can find challenge with Immortal. I chose this map in hopes that it would upset players... so... so far... so good lol! Also I haven't seen a lot of games with "isolated starts" so I kinda wanted to see how players handle that aspect of the game. Of course you have a few CS's on this landmass so it isn't completely isolated.

You don't have to go back and try an optional challenge. Just go for Scientific or Diplomatic Victory since you can play however you want and it is option 3 to help increase these two Leaderboards.

 

[kb27787]

Spoiler :

I would say the word "interesting" is too broad of a term and what one player finds "interesting" another player will find utterly "boring" or "not interesting" whatsoever! I started this map out with a plan of Full Piety and using Faith to help roll my close by neighbors. I scouted South first thinking that this map was going to start on a very small island. After scouting North I realized the land was not very good and I did not see any Civs nearby. So I hated this map and my original plan was foiled so I chose this map because it frustrated me or upset me... compared to finding it interesting. I also thought a lot of players would hate this Land / Civ / Map which is another reason I chose them. Last reason was because I plan to go Full Piety and Domination which is just a pain because it is going to take a long time so this was another reason for the choice. Of course... I still have a lot to learn about rolling maps and this is my first attempt for this series so I expect some backlash!!

ever since the series started, I've been expecting a "catch" to each map (Shaka next door? El Dorado? FoY? Isolated peninsula with no room?) etc.

I'm just not sure what the "catch" is for this one (as the terrain is not as hopelessly bad as, say, the Polynesia DC... anything that allows a long coastline for multiple coastal cities is not hopelessly bad). In no way am I saying this map is not good or not interesting. Well I haven't played it yet so if you say it's "frustrating" then that's the catch! (but I for one, prefer isolated starts, even on deity)

But this looks bad for full piety as I do not see a faith pantheon.

 

[neilkaz]

@ Fluphen

Spoiler :

It is good to have a variety of quality maps and civs for this. On Fractal sometimes you spawn alone (rare but happens). I don't mind starting alone and needing Astro. If every map was awesome like the Egypt one that I haven't bothered to finish but will when I feel like a few easy hours to CV, these challenges would be "cake walk" for Deity players and boringly easy for Immortal players.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I guess the catch is a mix of Frustration and Boredom for this map. I made it harder than it has to be by sticking with the Full Piety / Domination plan.

Turns 0-100

Spoiler :

I settled in place and it seems to be a large mistake but not a lot of great spots to settle with this land. I guess I will be able to make some use of the Longhouse but I hate how late it comes in the game for me. Basically as stated before the UU/UB/UA is going to useless for me this game and most games I play withthis Civ.

Barbs actually gave me some trouble stealing one of my settlers and blocking me a few times. I wanted to settled on the wrong side of my capital as well. Everything is pretty FUBAR for me so far this game !!

I stuck to Full Piety and couldn't decide on a proper Reformation Belief so I went with Jesuit Education. I also chose God King / Tithe / Rel Community. I wanted to go with Holy Warriors but it is going to be a long time before I can even think about war. I have no growth or any real production and gold is a large problem for now.

I am a little burnt out on Civ in general after last week playing game after game and challenge after challenge so I played this last 80 turns without really caring but I will try to finish this game soon and it is one of the first Immortal Games I have ever played where I feel like I might lose.

Perhaps I should of tried for a Sacred Sites Strategy here. Not a lot of luxes around and it is hard for me to trade with Alex for the time being. I hope some other Civs journey over here soon!

Screenshots

Spoiler :

 

[Gustavus Rex]

I guess the catch is a mix of Frustration and Boredom for this map. I made it harder than it has to be by sticking with the Full Piety / Domination plan.

I played about 100 turns, full piety was fun for a while but the "catch" got to me...

Frustration and boredom is just not my cup of tea.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I played about 100 turns, full piety was fun for a while but the "catch" got to me...

Frustration and boredom is just not my cup of tea.

Spoiler :

I think "option 2" would be more fun for this map but still tough on me since you do not have a lot of luxes around. However, I still need to practice the Sacred Sites Strategy which would be more fun I suppose going with Full Piety compared to Domination. I think eventually this map will turn into fun or interesting but it is going to take 100-200 turns to set it up which can get dull for any player. I have had the worst 100 turns for any game and I am still pretty close to Alex in tech and his capital is only at 12 pop so you pretty much can always win on Immortal since it seems you can push the game till about turn 450 and win.

I expected a very low turn out for this map and I figured players would either have trouble or get bored with it so I am happy with it in that respect but I have been burnt out on Civ for the last 4 days or so. I do expect to at least finish this map since I posted the darn thing !!

 

[neilkaz]

I'll take a shot at this soon but I then have to put finishing the old Poland ICL game on hold.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I expect a few players to play this out down the road. If your reading this Stormtrooper412... it might be best to post up your map on the 15th since the DCL is going to be posting up on the 10th and if you post up on the 9th it might clash a bit with time for players to play out all these maps. Also it will give some players more time to play and post up this map if they so choose. However, I do not expect a high volume of players for this map. I figure about the same amount of players will play this map as the Venice ICL map. The maps are starting to roll in a bit too fast. If I am struggling with time to be able to play all of these challenges... I know they are rolling in too fast because I have a lot of free time in general.

Anyways... just a thought and I am sure you will do what you feel is best!

Onwards to my game which is at Turn 200 on this map! After finding all the Capitals on this map, I really like the set up. It is unlike most maps that I have played in the last year. Of course it is Immortal so you have plenty of time even if you are as far behind as I am which this game might be the worst game for me on Immortal when you look at Pop, SPT, CPT, Production, GPT and any other stats I can think of!

Turns 101-200

Spoiler :

I guess things are starting to look up but I am struggling a lot this game. The good thing about being this far behind on Immortal is that it makes it somewhat of a Challenge which is what these DCL/ICL threads are supposed to give us. Jesuit Education is helping alot since I could buy Universities at 160 faith instead of hard building or rush buying them. I am not sure if I can win the WF but I will try in the next turn and see how it looks. I might have to settle for 350 hammers which is rare on Immortal. Either way the free SP is worth it!

I went to war with Shaka twice now and do not have to worry about him since the Ocean divides us and I went to war with Japan as well. Poland destroyed him and he gave me a 2gpt deal for peace. My DOFs are Poland, Greece, and the Maya. I have been faith buying troops and my one CS ally has been gifting me some troops as well since the Objective is to go Full Piety first and Domination. I would like ot go SV or Diplo to help increase those LBs so I might detour out of the Optional Challenge.

Screenshots

Spoiler :

 

[adcarrymaokai]

So I hated this map

I chose this map because it frustrated me or upset me...

I found that most players hate playing this Civ which is why I chose them

I chose this map in hopes that it would upset players...

Well, this is awkward.

I might give this map a try. Just looking at the screenshot and knowing it is Immortal, I might try to go Liberty/Piety and never Rationalism CV and then do something wonky like Autocracy or Order and try to put their awkward tourism policies to use. The only question here is whether it is possible to go 2 in Liberty and still be able to grab Reformation (not to mention religious buildings). I will use this game to test things out, mostly for Order or Autocracy CV.

 

[neilkaz]

Spoiler :

I went NC first then into 4 city tradition. Managed to build HS for my prophet so I can keep my fishing boat pantheon.

However, Shaka has conquered his island entirely and Korea is a science runaway and took Order around T180.

I expect problems ahead as I am too slow. Maybe I can incite wars between Shaka and Sejong. Anyhow, Sejong needs to be slowed down.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

@ neilkaz

Spoiler :

Amazing how different the AI is in my game since Poland wiped out Japan and Shaka. Alex destroyed Korea.

 

[kb27787]

Spoiler :

Because the starting location (no freshwater) and the southern lands (no hills) are too horrible to contemplate settling the capitol on, moved north when my warrior saw a river.


Almost 80 turns in and have not met anyone... barbs are a nuisance.


A most unwelcome new neighbor... nonetheless this is immortal and not deity... not too scared.


Well... still no bribes is the rule I stand by on immortal! My neighborhood is now also an integral part of Zululand.


No worries... I am as nice a neighbor as you will find.


And there goes the last red buff we had. BFFs forever.


I'll admit the AI is not so useless this game despite being on immortal. Missed out on so many wonders and couldn't get to 4 digit tpt this game.
Greece and Poland performed at a level I would've expected from deity AIs

 

[stormtrooper412]

15th, got it

 

[adcarrymaokai]

Yes, I am researching Civil Service on t160. What science are you talking about? I am worshipping pearls.

I did get 2 religious buildings and SS. Sadly, I don't think SS culture win is possible here. I played this like it is Emperor, and I feel too behind now. I am still going to give it a try to test out Autocracy or Order and tourism, but I don't think I will win. Or will I?