Trading for lump sum of Gold requires Friendship

[Buccaneer]

Yeah, that's why the AI civs are called 'ATMs' at higher levels (at lower levels, they don't have the gold but it didn't matter much anyways). I agree with Pilgrim in that those that are interested in efficient strategies at higher levels will compensate, as we have done when other strategies have gotten nerfed or changed. From all indications thus far, Pilgrim and chazzy can confirm, early growth and science will still be the primary drivers for all victory conditions even though science appears to have been re-balanced a little.

 

[MadDjinn]

Immortal is unlikely to be the issue, there are still ways to get things done on that difficulty that aren't unreasonable, heck, you even have a fair shot at most wonders. Deity is the big ballbuster and right now if you play under standard settings, this change kills the crazy speed of the Tradition opener, and takes away practically all your "how to deal with early Deity wars shenanigans". Like I said, I don't mind if it means that down the line they can review the bonuses the AI gets because it's now less exploitable, but I'm also kinda cool with the idea that Deity isn't a difficulty you can always win.

unlikely to see drops in AI bonuses due to this though. Deity is meant to hurt, so there's no need to reduce bonuses because people can't use the AIs as ATMs.

As the AI gets tuned better to play the game (not mechanic changes) then the bonuses can be dropped some as that's why they exist.

 

[Buccaneer]

MadDjinn, I eagerly look forward to your BNW LPs and see how much you are hurt at Deity.

I like your phrase about tuning to better play the game (e.g., playing to win). But there's an awful lot of mechanical changes in BNW. I like that you have to be less exploitative with gold but but would other such new mechanics in BNW make it harder for the AI to achieve cultural (which I have never seen), domination and diplomatic victories?

 

[The Pilgrim]

Immortal is unlikely to be the issue, there are still ways to get things done on that difficulty that aren't unreasonable, heck, you even have a fair shot at most wonders. Deity is the big ballbuster and right now if you play under standard settings, this change kills the crazy speed of the Tradition opener, and takes away practically all your "how to deal with early Deity wars shenanigans". Like I said, I don't mind if it means that down the line they can review the bonuses the AI gets because it's now less exploitable, but I'm also kinda cool with the idea that Deity isn't a difficulty you can always win.

The game is not supposed to be balanced around deity. I'd be ecstatic if AI becomes so good (yeah, I'm a dreamer ) I can't play it anymore and have to step down. People complain about deity not being hard enough all over recent DC threads and come up with all kind of crazy settings to compensate that. Which doesn't help. Now they've got what they wanted. Not in the way many of them wanted, but oh well... Can't eat a cake and have it too.

 

[Furycrab]

unlikely to see drops in AI bonuses due to this though. Deity is meant to hurt, so there's no need to reduce bonuses because people can't use the AIs as ATMs.

As the AI gets tuned better to play the game (not mechanic changes) then the bonuses can be dropped some as that's why they exist.

Well that's mostly my guess. I love the change because having 300+ gold spikes in an initial build order is making for crazy shenanigans. So much so that it's bleeding into other issues. For instance it's easy to say that Liberty is terrible... When you use AIs to get all the settlers you could possibly want in an early game.

Since you are here... Are you planning another LP once BNW comes out? Can understand if you don't want to jump into a Deity LP first week, but I love watching them for some perspective on things I currently do.

 

[Cyanfunk]

I've always found it odd that two civilizations that have just met each other are a-okay with trading half their GDP for an orange.

 

[Tabarnak]

Devs have clearly followed many threads from the S&T and GOTM sections!

Of course, it's good news. Many of us claimed these kind of changes since the game came out.

In some ways, we, civfanatics, have contributed for a better expansion of the game. Hurray for us!

Edit : People used to the mp environment will probably have some good basis on how to begin games under BNW(used to games without trades).

 

[stealth_nsk]

Selling everything to rush buy archers/walls to defend against an early DoW is off the menu then

Well, looks like DoF are available from the beginning of the game. So, you just need to make friends faster.

 

[Gucumatz]

Devs have clearly followed many threads from the S&T and GOTM sections!

Of course, it's good news. Many of us claimed these kind of changes since the game came out.

In some ways, we, civfanatics, have contributed for a better expansion of the game. Hurray for us!

Edit : People used to the mp environment will probably have some good basis on how to begin games under BNW(used to games without trades).

Edit: Didn't see Tabarnak's name, thought was just responding to some random poster. Yea he knows what hes doing too

The MP environment is different though. People still trade luxes for luxes (gold trades almost never happen though) and with the fact that everyone is on an equal playing field without anyone getting silly AI bonuses, it allows Multiplayers to use the bully mechanic on Emperor through Deity MP games that otherwise would never really happen in singleplayer.

 

[Arachnofiend]

I'll still play Tradition.

Anyway, haven't a lot of people been complaining that Tradition is OP (and that in many cases, Tradition is far better than Liberty). And now that Tradition gets HG and can buy GE with Faith, maybe this is a good way to indirectly nerf Tradition....

They have but they're wrong. The main reason Tradition is generally a better policy than Liberty is because most of the time there just isn't enough room for a Liberty game. If you've got the room to settle 10+ cities Liberty is absolutely the better option.

 

[The Pilgrim]

They have but they're wrong. The main reason Tradition is generally a better policy than Liberty is because most of the time there just isn't enough room for a Liberty game. If you've got the room to settle 10+ cities Liberty is absolutely the better option.

That's only true on immortal+. On emperor and below there is plenty of room for expansion, however, many players prefer not to expand - wonders and such .

 

[Arachnofiend]

Kinda depends on the AI, and of course you have to take into account that an Emperor player isn't going to be able to get his empire up as quickly as someone good enough to be playing on Deity. Alex, Hiawatha, and Washington typically just don't give you the space to make a strong Liberty start, even on lower difficulties.

 

[local_hero]

Perhaps the Netherlands wont be slightly nerfed by this, but surely Arabia will? If you need a DoF to trade your luxuries, I can very well imagine that you'll receive extra copies from your bazaar that you'll never be able to trade? Or am I wrong and simply dont understand your reasoning? As it is now you might sell one copy to every AI player even though you might not get the full 240 gold.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Perhaps the Netherlands wont be slightly nerfed by this, but surely Arabia will? If you need a DoF to trade your luxuries, I can very well imagine that you'll receive extra copies from your bazaar that you'll never be able to trade?

You don't need DoF to trade luxuries, you need it to trade lamp sums of gold. That's completely different. You could still exchange luxuries with GpT, for example.

 

[local_hero]

Ahh! Haha. So that's how it will work. I wonder why I didnt make that connection even though the thread name says "lump sum"

 

[Beardy Dan]

May have missed it but what about peace treaties?
Can't have a DoF while at war so no more paying Monty to leave you alone?

 

[stealth_nsk]

May have missed it but what about peace treaties?
Can't have a DoF while at war so no more paying Monty to leave you alone?

It's highly probable that you still could use gold in peace treaties. May be in demands too. We just didn't see enough.

 

[ggmoyang]

You can give 1 gpt if you really want that embassy.
OR
You can trade Embassy for Embassy

Can't buy Embassy with 1gpt, AI values player's 1gpt as 22.5gold in normal speed.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Can't buy Embassy with 1gpt, AI values player's 1gpt as 22.5gold in normal speed.

Well, BNW completely rebuilds economy, changes diplomacy interactions and AI behavior. How could you rely on Embassy cost or GPT value staying the same?

 

[ggmoyang]

Well, BNW completely rebuilds economy, changes diplomacy interactions and AI behavior. How could you rely on Embassy cost or GPT value staying the same?

Obviously I was saying about current situation, which needs to be rebalanced.