TSG 243 After Actions Thread

Nizef

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In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you use your UU?
- What technologies did you prioritize?
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
 
SV on turn 361 (1941). It was a fun game. I hard-built all the space ship parts except the Particle Physics one.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
I thought there's no fresh water, so I better prioritize Hanging Gardens for the free garden.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
Settled in place and built a scout. Then started prebuilding a worker, and switched it to a shrine and then a granary when Pottery unlocked. I think the next thing might have been Temple of Artemis after I finished the worker.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
I actually didn't pay any attention to the map settings at first. (I should have) When I started exploring I thought the map was a little weird. It took a long time even after I had Astronomy to uncover everything.

- What were your initial priorities?
ToA, HG, and a settler to forward-settle Shaka in a spot that would be easy to defend, not necessarily in that order.

- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
I built 18 wonders: Hanging Gardens, Porcelain Tower, Himeji Castle, Forbidden Palace, Taj Mahal, Big Ben, Statue of Liberty, Cristo Redentor, Eiffel Tower, Pentagon, Sydney Opera House, Temple of Artemis, Alhambra, Hubble, Leaning Tower, Neuschwanstein, Globe Theatre, and Broadway. The only wonder that I really wanted but I got beat to it was the Oracle. Someone built Sistine Chapel just as I was about to start it, and I also got beat to Brandenburg but I started that one pretty late.

- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?
Yes. Religious Idols, Tithe, Pagodas, Feed the World, Itinerant Preachers.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Did you use your UU?
I played as peacefully as one can with Shaka as your only neighbor. He declared war around turn 50, and dealing with him delayed my national college a bit; I believe I finished it around turn 120. I met Austria just as I was wiping out the Zulus and Maria Theresa hated me for a long time but she eventually got over it. I thought I was going to have to declare war on her and I built the Heroic Epic and then some galleasses mainly for that purpose but I never used them except against a few barbs. I did not build any Cossacks, TBH I forgot about them.

- What technologies did you prioritize? Archery (Temple of Artemis), Mathematics (Hanging Gardens), Construction (for composite bows because I was at war) Optics, Civil Service, Education, Astronomy (observatory in St Petersburg), Banking (Forbidden Palace), Industrialization (coal), Scientific Theory, Radio, Plastics, Atomic Theory, Satellites, Robotics (spaceship factory in St Petersburg), then everything else.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Which Ideology did you choose?
Full Tradition, Patronage (because I got there before Commerce and Exploration were unlocked), Rationalism, Freedom, then a few late policies in Commerce. I used the Rationalism finisher for Plastics.

- How many cities did you have in the end and where did you settle them?
Five cities, not including the ones that I razed. My third city was Ulundi, but I captured it too late to get the free monument. I think it did get the aqueduct and I had to buy one in my last city. I settled the capital in place, then St Petersburg to the southeast by the mountain. Next expo was on the south side of the lake after I razed uMgungundlovu. I annexed Ulundi, and I settle my last city on the coast up in the snow because it had 3 sea resources and it looked like a good place to eventually find oil -- and it had lots of oil.

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Well, I was bored and decided to just grind the rest of the game out for a very lazy T289 spaceship launch.

Highlights:
1. LTOP => GE => Big Ben => rush buy 3 factories => Freedom Ideology turn 180

2. Finished Plastics around turn 240 and rush bought 5 labs, switched all my cities to max science, plus Scholasticism for a little extra city states put me at 1310 beakers per turn. Waited for 11 turns for next scientist, then completed Porcelain Tower next turn and started blasting techs.

3. Timed a GE to pop next for Hubble. Oxford to get particle physics, then used faith to buy two more GS.

4. Generated another GS on the last turn that I didn’t use and ended the game allied to all CS. Never signed a RA the whole game (only India wanted to be friends until the very end when it no longer mattered).
 
Science victory T242. After what felt like a slow start, I'm pleased with the final finish time, and also how the end game came together: not overshooting in science (which I frequently do), not running out of gold, etc.

Picking up from the opening actions thread, I first had to swallow a disappointment: I was same-turned on Oracle in a faraway land, to my surprise (around T106 or 107). Oracle is not a very popular wonder even on Deity, so to lose it on Prince was a surprise. I think Oracle is less popular with the AI in large part because they favor the bottom part of the tech tree. There are two civs, however, that prefer the top half of the tech tree, and that also like to spam wonders: Maya and Egypt, so when later I discovered Egyptian yellow borders I knew what had happened before even checking the wonder list.

For religion I went tithe and religious community first, and I enhanced with Swords into Plowshares, and Itinerant preachers (again I forgot about Reliquary for the 50 faith when expending a great person). I might have picked pagodas for my enhance if it has still been available. My early tech path was education - workshops - navigation. For a science victory, this is somewhat of a dubious decision; probably it's just faster to plant more cities on your island, or maybe even on another island, and ignore all warfare. However, I do not like to settle land that does not appeal to me, so I went after the AI's cities instead, and they actually had pretty nice capitals. In addition, Stockholm, Lisbon and Vienna all had a lot of camps in their capital, so my Goddess of the Hunt worked out even better than I could have imagined. Thebes had camps as well, but for some reason my prophet could not convert it.

As an aside, I never figured out how converting religions works. My prophet could convert Lisbon, which had a religion of its own, but not Thebes, which did not have a religion (but did have pressure from two other religions).

My capital was in charge of building galleas for my navy while teching for navigation, and when the sixth galleas was complete I bulbed the final way to navigation. Perhaps strange to expend a scientist that early, but I felt the earlier I got those capitals under control, the better. As it turned out, six frigates was massive overkill, as most cities had less than 20 combat strength, and at most one composite bowman for defence. I took cities in the order Stockholm (Temple of Artemis, Statue of Zeus), Vienna (Machu Picchu - I delayed the war declaration by one turn in the hope she would finish it, and she did), Thebes (GL, GL, Oracle, Parthenon, Angkor Wat), Jakarta (Colossus), and Lisbon (Great Wall, Pyramids, Stonehenge).

My social policies this game were Tradition, Commerce (I expended a writer to get the purchasing policy, which would not have been necessary with Oracle), Rationalism, and Freedom. I often pick Freedom by default, and while of course it is very good, at some point it occurred to me that Order's Skyscrapers would have been very strong in this game, especially since all of the AI capitals had a lot of catching up to do. Even without the extra purhasing power, though, all of the cities were more or less done by the end.
 

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I knew capturing the other capitals would be faster, but on Prince it just feels like cheating.

This was the first time I played an Ice Age map and given what I’ve seen I think Tradition has to be favored over liberty. There are just way too many dead tiles (ice, sea, naked tundra).
 
I played this again with Liberty instead of Tradition. The discussion in the announcement thread got me thinking about it, and border expansion from the Krepost (sp?) could make up for the inherently slower border growth that Liberty has. Even though I got my national college up sooner this time, the game was still slower. I won on turn 400 with Liberty. I think the 15% faster population growth from the Tradition finisher is what makes the difference. In both games, I had Temple of Artemis and Feed the World and used internal trade routes; food when I had the happiness for it and production when I didn't.

Honor would probably be slower still, but fun :) Honor is viable for science games, even if you play peacefully, or semi-peaceful.
 
Won turn 283

I eliminated the Zulu before meeting anyone else. As I just learned from a recent thread, there is no diplomatic penalty for eliminating them when they haven't met you yet... however, everyone somehow knew that I broke my promise to move my troops from their borders. I got a permanent diplo penalty and was labelled a "dishonorable individual" for the rest of the game. :lol:

I was in a permanent golden age after winning world's fair turn 223.
Lost Porcelain Tower by one turn in t234.
Otherwise, a fairly typical science game. 4 city tradition, conquered Ulundi, then settled 2 more cities when happiness would allow it. Freedom to buy space ship parts (can't really do any other Ideology for Science win).
 

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I drained Shaka's troops for many turns with a few archers upgraded to CBs and then eliminated him. Apart from that I stayed friendly and wasn't even denounced once. Not that Research agreements gave a lot, but it was nice to have some set up. Tricks for staying friends included gifting 3 resources to get the "We've traded recently!" boost, and relocating the chairmanship of world congress to other nations. And sometimes the proposal for world congress are more about checking the grateful list than picking something that actually matters.

The most special feature of this game was that you could let your units hike far and adventurously in order to find distant civs. I obviously did a so-so job with this because the walkers reached the most distant civs and CSs around the time of astronomy.

t1 - POP 20 culture
16 - POP mining with just 3-4 turns left
28 - goddess of the hunt
31 - free settler
36- Cleared camp for Bratislava. Allied for 5 turns.
41 - third city, dangerously close to zuluz
c 60 - missed great library.
71 - Shaka declares.
73- Finally sailed around Cape Colombo.
74 - Austria
78 - Sweden
90 - Free great scientist
93 - crash, reload from autosave.
96 - Cash is scarce but the Mausoleum and plundering of Zulu trade routs has allowed 4 upgrades to CB.
101 ca - Oracle. I haven't reached Medieval period so picked Monarchy opener.
104- POP upgrade to archer
104 - Captured Ulundi (no city improvements but had to go) after rush-building a scout, seeing how only ranged units were present.
108 - Captured Umgungundlovu. Zulu eliminated. Gave luxuries to Sweden and Austria to alleviate war mongering rep.
109 - Civil service.
116 - Aristochracy
121 - POP pop.
122 - Colossus
135 - Patronage opener.
143 Chichen Itza.
147 - Astronomy. Religion. Spy. You name it. Great writer takes us into the Rationalism branch, finally.
150 - Egypt. Traded 22 gpt for 3 luxuries :)
151 - India. Stole Belgrade's incense w citadel. Barbarian horsemen causes havoc near Moscow.
152- Horseman finally killed after pillaging 6 tiles.
160 - Portugal finally.
168- Manilla, last CS to find.
170 - POP map.
zzz
291 - Scientific victory.
I still don't understand the part about science overflow or why great scientists should be saved to the end. Sure, they give more beakers at the end but the proportions beakers per turm / beaker cost / GS beakers are likely to be roughly the same as they were 50 turns earlier. Is there a good link to an explanation? Note: I do understand that plastics and the last space rocket tech should be learned with GSs because it lets you buy labs and the last spaceship part one turn earlier.
 
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SV turn 246.

I founded the capital on silver hill and I think it was the right decision. Intelligence showed that 7-8 cities can be located on our continent, so I decided to play through liberty. Unfortunately, there was not a single cultural one among the ruins found, so the free settler appeared only on turn 40. During this time in the capital, I built 2 scouts, a monument (16), bought a worker (20), shrine (21), granary, 2nd worker and Stonehenge (46). After that, 4 settlers. On turn 15, I started a war against Shaka so that he would not interfere with my settlement the continent. I didn't keep detailed records, but during all this time, with the help of a warrior and a scout-archer, I captured 2-3 workers and the same number of settlers from him. I made peace a couple of times to take money from him, of which Shaka always has a lot, and he took advantage of one such ceasefire to build Umgungundlovu (about 50 turn), blocking me from building new cities (I planned 2 more on dyes). Thus, I have built only 6 cities on our continent, 2nd - wine + silver (42), 3 - between Moscow and Ulundi (51), 4 - pearls (59), 5 - marble (62), 6 - NW corner (71). On turn 81, I took Umgungundlovu with 4 pop for the peace and I decided to save it, which probably turned out to be a mistake. Later I noticed that the central tile did not work in it, given that for most of the game in other cities it gave 6-7 food, at the end of the game Umgungundlovu was my worst city. A little later I built another 1 settler and founded the 8th city on the south island (near gold,,93). Also in St. Petersburg I built Pyramids (98).

In general, I played this game as if the goal was not a scientific victory, but something between culture and dominance. After a free settler, I accepted piety and org. religion, then citizenship (86), meritocracy, heavenly mandate (Oracle, 119), religious tolerance (123) and reformation (137, Jesuit education, learned education in the same turn). Later, I closed liberty and opened rationalism (165). On turn 35, I founded the pantheon (religious idols) and thanks to him and Stonehenge, I strengthened religion on turn 83 (tithes, pagodas, mosques, religious texts). I also taked an engineer from Stonehenge before a free engineer from Liberty.

After turn 100, in Moscow, I built an comp bow, a catapult, and a Terracotta Army (108). With this army, I have consistently captured Ulundi (115), Vienna (Library, Lighthouse, Gardens, 136) (early took Salzburg for peace, 113), Stockholm (Statue of Zeus, 151), Medan (Petra, 165), Jakarta (Colossus, ToA, Parthenon, 168) and Lisbon (Chichen Itza, 176). At that moment, I decided that the new cities would not pay off and would only slow down the scientific victory, but then I decided that since there was an army, it was necessary to occupy it with something and captured Surabaya (The Forbidden Palace, 217) and Thebes (The Great Wall, 219). It was too late to develop the last 2 cities and I left them as satellites. The only wonder that was under AI control by the end of the game was the Alhambra in Delhi, which I could not capture, since the game immediately It would have ended in dominance.

15 turns before the end of the game, I started another war with all the remaining AI, and on turn 245, after studying all the technologies necessary for space, I captured 5 and took 4 more cities for the peace. In total, at the end of the game I had 26 cities (again!) On the same turn 245, I accepted the iron curtain, which left me with positive happiness :)

In the end, before the construction of Hubble and the Porcelain Pagoda, I could get 2 more scientists, but instead I made 1 engineer, for which I had to slow down the appearance of scientists in 4 cities. In total, I had 6 engineers, 1 for each part of the SS - but I had to build Hubble myself. I think if I had thought much in advance that I needed 7 engineers, I could have won 1-2 turns.

some dates from the game
pottery (11) - AH (18) - Mining (25) - Calendar (34) -.....- Optics (76) - BW (80).- constructions (88) -..... - Civil Service (122) - National College (133) - Education (137) - Metal casting (143) - Printing Press (163) - Industrialization (181) - Order (192) - Scientific method (192) - Plastics (219, used 1 scientist) - Rocketry (234, used 2 scientists) - Satellites (234, used writer - finish rationalism) - Apollo (240), Hubble, Porcelain Pagoda, Kremlin (all 241). I used 3 more scientists before Hubble, 5 more scientists after. For faiths points, I only bought 2 scientists - it might have been more profitable to make 1 more scientist instead of buying 5 laboratories in small towns, but I'm not sure.

p.s. In Vienna, where there were Hanging Gardens, the Great Library and the Great Lighthouse, there were no gardens, no lighthouse, no library - how so?!

p.p.s.Sorry for the noob question - how can I see that AI is trying to build some kind of wonder of the world?
 
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@Bemep42
"p.s. In Vienna, where there were Hanging Gardens, the Great Library and the Great Lighthouse, there were no gardens, no lighthouse, no library - how so?!"

yes, I have noticed that in many of my domination playthroughs as well. You will still get the benefits of the wonder (like naval movement for great lighthouse), but the free lighthouse, library or garden is somehow destroyed. Feels like a bug to me. I am not sure whether it is always destroyed, or whether it has a chance to be destroyed like other buildings.

"how can I see that AI is trying to build some kind of wonder of the world?"

Each world wonder, except for Great Wall, will show a skeleton in the city where it is being built. Check out FilthyRobot's wonder spotting guide how to recognize them:
 
I won at turn 247. Not bad but not the fastest I see from the others :)
I didn't keep any notes this time around. Noteworthy about my game:
Sweden actually wiped out Indonesia before I met them 😵‍💫.
I had enough money to buy out all research labs. I also bought university and public school in capital.
I timed oracle exactly on the turn entering renaissance, instantly opening science policy.
I went for Order because the few cities I had were very high in production tiles. I built 4 spaceship parts and rushed 2 with engineer in capital (capital was 300 hammers per turn and 2nd spaceship factory city 250 hammers per turn, so 5 turns per part in capital and 6 turns per part in 2nd city). The timing of the last scientist was very clutch so I didn't have to wait any turns.

I see others bulbing 1 scientist to get plastics faster, maybe I should start trying that to improve my win times.
Spoiler :
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