TSG47 After Action Report

[Tabarnak]

For my 2nd run i couldn't make a good game, at least not enough to post it. Bouticca, Greece and Austria DoWed me at many occasions and other civs were guarded or hostile. I only DoWed myself once and i still got all this hate.

Built NC around turn 93 after 4 cities, Edu around turn 105. Lack of gold from trades and lucky bounds from cs didn't let me rush buy science buildings in time. I stopped playing around the turn 195 when i realized that my bpt rate was too low. I would probably finish around the turn 230, maybe even 240.

I think there was 2 great paths to take here in this game. The ''AE'' path and the ''tommynt'' path

AE for a more peaceful approach and the usual ''tank mode'' style from tommy. I did try the tommy style but i think i didn't capture cities fast enough, or at least hurt the AIs enough to deter them from multiple extra DoWs.

 

[Maxym]

I replayed from the beginning after patching and managed t 203 diplo win. I settled one east and took GotS settled 3 cities and lost two good city spots ( where I settled previous game) to AI even though I was ready to settle thrirty turns earlier. Eventually settled 4th inside my borders just to have 4th. First time I see AI venture far away from their borders to grab optimal city spots. Patch maybe?

Had decent quests, but an average game. At t 133 when tommy had 498 bpt I had 233. Got plastics on t178 with GS and saved Oxford for globalization. Lost LToP to Maya as I was saving it for later. Sub 200 is possible even for me. I think messenger of gods might be better then one with nature. I felt my science was much faster last time. I might try again that setup.

No one Dowed me till very late when celts and siam tried together, even though I was mostly last in military. I Dowed celts twice and Austria once to take out GPs.

 

[tommynt]

For my 2nd run i couldn't make a good game, at least not enough to post it. Bouticca, Greece and Austria DoWed me at many occasions and other civs were guarded or hostile. I only DoWed myself once and i still got all this hate.

thats really a huge problem of the play peaceful approach, its been like that in vanilla and that still hasnt changed, sometimes civs jump from friendly to hostile for no obvious reason. And I dont remeber a game where i didnt get massdowed like 30t before win.

I think messenger of gods might be better then one with nature. I felt my science was much faster last time. I might try again that setup.

I dont even know what messengar of gods is but the +4 faith per nw thing gave me free 8 faith from like turn 10 on meaning I could totaly neglect faith buildings/wonders and still spread religion all over world and have pagodas and mosques in 4 cities - in the end my faith peaked at about 125 without single faith building.
Thats so op that its clearly the best and I just dont see why not every1 took it.

Its obvious to be best after playing spain once

 

[Arilian]

I took that, but I do not think that is the 'best' here.

Messenger gives you 8 base science for 4 city very early, or goddess of sea can give you 5 prod.
And you still have the base 12 faith/turn, what is enough to get your religion rolling.

 

[tommynt]

The +2 science per conected city is definatly the most overrated thing in the game, at the time when I (one should) conect cities you ll have 100+ science allready.

8 science thats less as a single scientists gives in a city

If u connect before cities grow you r both wasting gold and missing to improve tiles, if you conect after cities grow the science percentage gets slim.

Early faith is really very strong, as the faith buildings cost so few faith when u r still in medi age

edit: as I settled 3 nw I got in end 4*2*3 Bonus faith from my belief and I m just pretty sure that 24 faith is better as everything else a belief can give - but most important is still the early jump

 

[Maxym]

I bought all cathedrals in medieval even with only 12 faith per turn, and if you get MoG then you will connect early to make most of it. It makes a diff if you are at 15-50 bpt which is when you can expect to connect 1st city and get 4 bpt very early. That's the feel I got in my first game that my early science advancement was very quick much slower with GotS and I didn't notice a huge jump in production from it.

As I said I am very tempted to play again and see. Too bad new one is out soon or even now, got to check.

 

[Halcyan2]

I got a lot of mileage out of One with Nature. Of course I ended up settling near each of the Natural Wonders.

2nd city near Mt. Kailash with a 3rd at Mt. Sinai. Took awhile but I eventually got a 4th city at Old Faithful and a 5th near Grand Mesa (I then wrested control of the Mesa from Warsaw). In the end, I did settle a 6th city in the jungles to the northwest near the sheep and silk.

Since my cities were so spread out, Messenger of the Gods would have largely been a waste.

In the early game, I was swimming in Faith due to Kailash + Sinai. To deter aggressors, I chose Holy Warriors and had enough to buy a new unit every couple of turns. If I had decided to play aggressively (which I don't like to do unless it's domination), I think I could have crushed a lot of civs with my Holy Warriors.

My other follower belief was Pagodas. But in the Renaissance, I also managed to get Cathedrals in all of my cities after one of my cities had been converted into a rival religion.

 

[ense7en]

Watching tommynt i realize that wow, he plays ballsy!

I don't really like the excessive use of CS worker stealing and sell gpt then DoW, but i suppose it's allowed so i guess i should really do the same? Just feels like pure exploitation to me, though i guess playing at Immortal/Deity is all about exploiting AI.

Regardless, kudos on an insane time as usual!

 

[AE_]

Watching tommynt i realize that wow, he plays ballsy!

I don't really like the excessive use of CS worker stealing and sell gpt then DoW, but i suppose it's allowed so i guess i should really do the same? Just feels like pure exploitation to me, though i guess playing at Immortal/Deity is all about exploiting AI.

Regardless, kudos on an insane time as usual!

It is always tempting to turn to the dark side.

But i will try to stick with my peaceful approach. Hopefully this training series will be changed to a "real" GOTM series in the future where we can all play by the same rules.

 

[Moriarte]

It is always tempting to turn to the dark side.

But i will try to stick with my peaceful approach. Hopefully this training series will be changed to a "real" GOTM series in the future where we can all play by the same rules.

You mean: where we all can play the same way?

 

[DrZ]

Game:	Civ5 GOTM 47
Date submitted:	2012-11-17
Reference number:	27686
Your name:	DrZ
Game status:	Diplomacy Victory
Game date:	1842AD
Turns played:	[B]291[/B]
Base score:	2054
Final score:	3541
Time played:	11:20:00

Played with the patch on.

What i did good:
I tried to play the way tommy plays, stoled workers, dowed and conquered all i could, and it did pay off, i was powerful enough not to be a good target for alex, who attacked maria theresa instead. Killed myself the celts first and them austria and alex.

Conquered pacal also because he wonderspammed all game and had a very nice capital city.

Concentrated a little more on culture to get patronage fast and get as much from rationalism as i could.

What i did bad:
I was stupid enough not to settle near the Faith Mountain, because i thought it to be a hard to defend city and one without too much food and resources. I think this was my biggest mistake. Had no religion found :-(.

Lesson learned...

This was an awesome game, thanks for the effort!

 

[tommynt]

most Videos are up - d like some1 comment on the final one as I am really not sure if my "endgame" is good. Usually I am at benchmark techs way more ahead as at final turns

Game: Civ5 GOTM 47
Date submitted: 2012-11-23
Reference number: 27754
Your name: tommynt
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1270AD
Turns played: 187
Base score: 1806
Final score: 4881
Time played: 7:55:00
Submitted save: GOTM47_tommyntwin_t187.Civ5Save
Renamed file: tommynt_C504701.Civ5Save

 

[Grotius]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 47
Date submitted: 2012-11-18
Reference number: 27712
Your name: Grotius
Game status: Diplomacy Loss
Game date: 1905AD
Turns played: 326
Base score: 581
Final score: 581
Time played: 16:12:00
Submitted save: AutoSave_0326 AD-1906.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Grotius_C504701.Civ5Save

I haven't done a GOTM for a while, so I hope I didn't mess up the upload process. I just uploaded the autosave from the turn after I lost. I forgot to make a "saved game" save until turn 327. Presumably this doesn't matter?

Also, on the Hall of Fame, my score shows as 886, but as uploaded to the GOTM, it shows as only 581. Why is that? Forgive me if it's a newbish question.

Anyway, what a fantastic game! This was my first-ever Immortal game; I've won on King and come close to winning of Emperor, so Immortal was a stretch for me. Having watched a Lets Play and read this thread, I can see some of the mistakes I made. First, I didn't try to get the religious mountain early on. Second, I notice other players spend their early gold on settlers and the like; I didn't. Third, I read "small map" and I figured that meant "Tradition start"; I probably should've taken Liberty. I tried to go "tall," which just didn't work out well. I built only three cities, never founded a religion, only got about 9 or 10 social policies, and struggled to narrow the tech gap.

I was at war constantly from about turn 60 to turn 225. Bouddica, then Alex, both DOWd me. I got the upper hand against Bouddica, but I never could take one of her cities. Her city defense would mow down my units before I could get close enough to bombard with catapults (or, later, cannons). We made peace at last. Later she DOW'd me again, and this time she had WWI aircraft whereas I did not. That was a painful lesson in the importance of Oil and the Flight tech. Still, I held my measly three cities to the bitter end, when Siam coasted to an easy Diplomatic win. I consoled myself in that I survived and came in 5th place on Score, and 3rd place in Literacy, but still, it was never really close. What a blast, though!

 

[Maxym]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 47

Later she DOW'd me again, and this time she had WWI aircraft whereas I did not. That was a painful lesson in the importance of Oil and the Flight tech. Still, I held my measly three cities to the bitter end, when Siam coasted to an easy Diplomatic win. I consoled myself in that I survived and came in 5th place on Score, and 3rd place in Literacy, but still, it was never really close. What a blast, though!

That was the biggest lesson I learned playing deity, don't get beat to flight. As stupid as AI is they will pound you constantly with their aircraft. Since we all rely on range units by that time they are highly promoted and lethal but very vulnerable to air attacks.

Was there no way to steal a few CS from Siam just before the vote? Maybe coup a few?

 

[Wargizmo]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 47
Date submitted: 2012-11-20
Reference number: 27726
Your name: Wargizmo
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1725AD
Turns played: 255
Base score: 1308
Final score: 2564
Time played: 6:41:00



My second ever GOTM submission. Really enjoyed this game, much more than GOTM48. Ended up finding three wonders for the 500 gold which really helped out early, especially the religious one which I claimed for my second city.

Ended up taking out Celts and Austria early using ceremonial burial to keep happy while taking puppets. Made friends with Maya, Sweden and Siam and signed research agreements. Alex, predictably, was a jerk so I was holding him off most of the game, didn't have the firepower to take a city off him and didn't want to slow down my research to do it so I just just killed wave after wave of his men until he offered me peace. Sweden DOW'd me right at the end but by then I was already building UN and had 350 GPT, bombers & battleships.

In hindsight I should probably have rushed education rather than crossbows early because it took me a while to get my science up and running, which was the main thing holding me back from a quicker win.

 

[Grotius]

Was there no way to steal a few CS from Siam just before the vote? Maybe coup a few?

Yeah, I probably didn't try hard enough. I did send all my spies to city states toward game end, and I (and other civs) did succeed with a couple coup attempts after the UN was built, but Siam managed to get most of them back. Unfortunately, I didn't have the cash to purchase much influence, and I'm not sure I even unlocked Patronage. I had an unduly optimistic view of how fast I'd acquire SP's, I guess.

 

[Half Nelson]

Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Turns played: 290
Base score:1923
Final score: 3373
Game date:1838AD

I won this game eventually despite all best efforts to lose it. Started out well:- 6 cities by turn 100 with Education just around the corner. Had early war with Greece but brushed them off easily. At turn 110, simultaneous DoW by Greece and Celts saw me rather unprepared (my army was all to N for surprise attack on Athens and I hadn’t built road system by then). Greece was allied to Marrakech so I had no buttress and found myself down to 4 cities in short order:- I lost Barcelona to a city state!! This was really bad because they proceeded to raze it before I could recapture it. Adding insult to injury, I also had my capital zapped by a Celtic GP, although this did allow me to collect the “No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition” achievement. It was clear my path to victory would then be paved with blood rather than science and faith, so I tooled up, built some roads, quickly resettled Barca (although I lost access to the Faith wonder) and recaptured my city from the Celts. I captured Athens and took peace with Greece, but the Celts were ground into dust for their heresy. Both Maya and Siam completed the Patronage tree early, making my CS influence bleed terribly, so I then set out to remove them from the game. I managed this, only to find that the Patronage finisher acts beyond the grave of Civs adopting it (both surprising and annoying). By this stage, it was a straight fight between me and Sweden. I used faith to purchase GS and 2xGE to complete UN (my only wonder bar a rather wasted Big Ben) and won on the first vote after a few coups, DoW with all remaining Civs and the recapture of 2 CS under the Swedish yoke

Tercio and conquistador were ok (I like the latter’s extra sight) and the UA was great on this map. I took Natural Wonder faith bonus and CS influence bonus as my 2 major religious beliefs, which worked out well in the end. I combined the top bits of Tradition, Liberty, Patronage, Rationalism and Order for policies. I played poorly and was unprepared for changes in the new patch but I am glad I kept the faith with this game (I nearly quit after losing 2 cities), because it was a very exciting ride to victory.

It is amazing how much carnage you can wreak with a couple of logistics battleships with +1 range:- Swedish hordes melted before them.

 

[Arnold_T]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 47
Date submitted: 2012-11-15
Reference number: 27670
Your name: Arnold_T
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1585AD
Turns played: 227
Base score: 1515
Final score: 3366
Time played: 25:36:00

Fun Game! Thanks Leif!

I've really enjoyed the past Immortal-level TSG/GOTM games and this one was no exception. I found it really exciting, challenging, and suspenseful as I worked first to survive living next to the obnoxious neighbours (especially Greece) and turn the tables and sack Athens. I played this one HoF-rules style, because I knew it would be a fun game played that way, but also because I'm not sure how I would do playing an Immortal-level Diplo game in the tommynt-style ... I think I would wreck the game by either:
1) being too successful with it and making the game too easy - taking away the excitement of the Immortal level game ... haha, not likely!, or
2) more likely ... playing it wrong somehow, declaring on all my neighbours, and having them all dogpile on me and take my capital.
tommynt, I watched the first 20-some turns of your video and I have to say that it's pretty gutsy to declare on the Celts right away and steal their worker from their capital, AND while outnumbered in warriors in the capital! hats off to you!
And I guess rule#1 of tommynt-style is to always settle all of your cities on hills if possible?

I managed to get Freindly with the Swedes, Mayan, and Siam and got rounds of RAs going with them all. Even when they stated bickering amonst themselves a bit my RAs still went through. Siam did the honours in eliminating Greece after I took Athens and three other Greek cities, I think that pissed off the Swedes and the Mayans a bit.

The mistakes I made this game were around religion. I should have taken the +4 faith pantheon (instead of God of the Seas)... I think that one definately is the best in this game. I also made the mistake of choosing both Cathedrals and Mosques for my religion. didn't have enough religion being generated to make full use of them both along with the missionaries I needed.

the empire at victory time looked like:

 

[tommynt]

grats for a good time

AND while outnumbered in warriors in the capital! hats off to you!
And I guess rule#1 of tommynt-style is to always settle all of your cities on hills if possible?

well its THAT hard to take a worker when ais units are behind a river and cant attack, and I said it multiple times in other threads:
Just declaring war doesnt mean ai will attack you - in fact its more like other way round, it will see you as some1 strong and unafraid.
While when u just sit back and do nothing at least the aggressive leader will at some point get bored and prepaire and launch an attack.

and obviously 2 shields are double as much as 1? Kinda big difference early on ...

 

[trueblue]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 47
Date submitted: 2012-12-01
Reference number: 27795
Your name: trueblue
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1838AD
Turns played: 289
Base score: 1224
Final score: 2147
Time played: 4:32:00
Submitted save: GOTM47Save.Civ5Save
Renamed file: trueblue_C504701.Civ5Save