Ukraine Crisis News Thread

[Winner]

Putin: we should discuss "statehood" for eastern Ukraine

-> So now he uped the ante and wants "peace talks" that would end in the separation of the eastern regions. Surely Russia will also offer some "fraternal assistance" in furthering that goal.

So apparently Ukrainians not only withstood a "Russian army" counterattack, but they even managed to completely isolate both Donetsk and Lugansk in a matter of days!

This map looks more like Poroshenko's wet dream than reality.

Funny how you "forgot" to comment on how the rebels managed to catapult themselves to Novoazovsk...

 

[Thorgalaeg]

@red_elk, that i mean is you cant compare per capita numbers in two countries with so distant per capita numbers. In fact 562$ for a Canadian represents a much smaller fraction of his yearly bugdet than 641& for a Russian.

For Canada: (562/43472)*100 every Canadian expends 1,29% of his budget in the military.
For Russia: (641/17884)*100 every Russian expends 3,58% of his bufget in the military

 

[Snorrius]

For Canada: (562/43472)*100 every Canadian expends 1,29% of his budget in the military.
For Russia: (641/17884)*100 every Russian expends 3,58% of his bufget in the military

Is it bad or good?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

In any case worse for Russians than Canadians obviously. And more militaristic.

 

[red_elk]

@red_elk, that i mean is you cant compare per capita numbers in two countries with so distant per capita numbers. In fact 562$ for a Canadian represents a much smaller fraction of his yearly bugdet than 641& for a Russian.

For Canada: (562/43472)*100 every Canadian expends 1,29% of his budget in the military.
For Russia: (641/17884)*100 every Russian expends 3,58% of his bufget in the military

Then you'll get again the fraction of defense spending in country GDP, which as I originally mentioned won't allow to qualify Russia as "strongly militaristic" either.

 

[Borachio]

Is it bad or good?

Don't know. I think you need to divide the amount of acres, annexed by each country, by that figure to get a handle on whether the money is well spent.

So far, by that metric, Russia looks like it's coming out ahead. At least recently.

 

[Snorrius]

In any case worse for Russians than Canadians obviously. And more militaristic.

Well, but Canadians do not really have anyone to defend from except US, and pretty sure Canadian war doctrine presumes immediate surrender in this unlikely case. At the same time, Russia have a lot of neighbours who have means to attack country. For they would have no reasons to do this, Russia has to maintain a decent army and to spend relatively bigger share of income.

Don't know. I think you need to divide the amount of acres, annexed by each country, by that figure to get a handle on whether the money is well spent.

Well, that's reasonable.

 

[red_elk]

I would rather ask what Britain and France have to defend themselves from, so that they are spending on military twice more per capita, than "militaristic" Russia.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I'd suggest you to get a little bit familiar with what happened there, before posting nonsense about annexation.

You mean the ethnic cleansing of georgian's ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Georgians_in_South_Ossetia

 

[Snorrius]

I would rather ask what Britain and France have to defend themselves from, so that they are spending on military twice more per capita, than "militaristic" Russia.

Well, France has to protect influence in her post-colonial assets and also join humanitarian interventions once a while, and Britain maintains her post-empire. You can not rule post-empire without decent forces. And while Verbose would like us to believe in amicable friendship of EU and USA we know too well they are the biggest enemies.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Then you'll get again the fraction of defense spending in country GDP, which as I originally mentioned won't allow to qualify Russia as "strongly militaristic" either.

In fact, it is among the highest in the world, higher than USA and only behind SA and UAE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

 

[Snorrius]

In fact, it is among the highest in the world, higher than USA and only behind SA and UAE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

With all respect to relative shares absolute numbers are... telling.

1 United States United States $Bn 640.0 <------- What the hell
2 China People's Republic of China[a] $Bn 188.0
3 Russia Russia[a] $Bn 87.8

 

[red_elk]

You mean the ethnic cleansing of georgian's ?

I meant, first of all, a war between South Ossetia and Georgia, which happened in 1990-s. And ethnic cleansings which were committed by both sides of the conflict. Just to get you familiar with how the suggestion that it would be better for South Ossetians to live in Georgia sounds like. And for you to know that South Ossetia wasn't annexed and not part of Russia - so that you'll be more careful next time before posting the stuff you have no idea about.

 

[Borachio]

I would rather ask what Britain and France have to defend themselves from, so that they are spending on military twice more per capita, than "militaristic" Russia.

It's a good question.

I think part of the answer may be that high-tech armament manufacture is so highly profitable that having a military capable of actually combat-proving the product is necessary.

 

[red_elk]

In fact, it is among the highest in the world, higher than USA and only behind SA and UAE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

The table you are looking into, contains only 15 countries. Check the table below, it allows to compare full list, Russia is on 12-th place in the world by this parameter.

 

[red_elk]

Putin: we should discuss "statehood" for eastern Ukraine

Don't worry, rebels on their last leg, they will soon be destroyed by mighty Ukrainian army.

Funny how you "forgot" to comment on how the rebels managed to catapult themselves to Novoazovsk...

Spoiler :

 

[Thorgalaeg]

With all respect to relative shares absolute numbers are... telling.

1 United States United States $Bn 640.0 <------- What the hell
2 China People's Republic of China[a] $Bn 188.0
3 Russia Russia[a] $Bn 87.8

Of course. USA huge war machine is beyond anything else. It is a militaristic country, THE militaristic country i would say. But no doubt Russia would expend about the same as USA if it could.

 

[red_elk]

Survivors from village "Hryaschevatoye"


Link to video.

"We were sitting in basement for 20 days, kids were evacuated in Russia a month ago."
"Village is half-destroyed"
"We are very glad that we are liberated. We want peace, this pointless war must be stopped"
"Look what they did to us... No, people here won't agree to be part of Ukraine anymore."
"I'm 100% ethnic Ukrainian... But culturally I'm Russian, we just wanted to speak our language - if it's impossible, ok, let's make a federation. We didn't want to separate, initially. But after that, we were called terrorists and they started killing us. What for?"

 

[bhsup]

THE militaristic country

I think you meant, "THE arsenal of freedom.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Ukraine crisis: EU 'must act on Russia aggression'

And President Obama does nothing of substance. Still. Bush abandoned Georgia to Ruskie aggression and Obama is doing the same with Ukraine. It's a wonder any country thinks we're trustworthy at all anymore.

bh, no country thinks we're trustworthy. US presidents on both sides of the aisle are lying SOBs.

You do realize that Putin is the Russian version of a Neo-con and he's been in power far more than four years, has even more popular support than they ever had, and is unlikely to leave for a long time, right ?
Because your "what-if" scenario is actually reality. Which is kinda the cause of the current crisis.

Putin is far from a neo-con. He nationalized basic industries, improved the conditions of workers.

Not a neocon agenda.