Ukraine Crisis News Thread

[red_elk]

In case Russia military is not rules by idiots soldiers simply dont get lost in foreign country.

Well, since the Russian Ministry of Defense claimed this (not sure how the Ministry would know about individual soldiers 'getting lost' in Ukraine unless there were orders to 'get lost' there), it might be entirely possible that they are - the Ministry, not the soldiers. Idiots, that is. Or perhaps they think it doesn't really matter what they say, since the rest of the world are idiots.

Just wondering, does this apply to Russia only, or to other countries as well?

13.06.2014, Millerovo, Rostov region
"At least one Ukrainian armored vehicle crossed the Russian border with Ukraine Friday overnight and stopped in the Rostov Region, according to Russia’s Security Service. The military abandoned the vehicle and returned to Ukraine."
http://rt.com/news/165780-ukraine-russia-apc-border/

 

[Daw]

So the Ministry was completely uninformed about the issue.

Ukrainian media was faster at reporting, yes.

What I reproduced was the published statement of the Ministry. If I reproduced that incorrectly, I apologize.

Well, I don't know what statement published where you're referring to, so I can't know if you reproduced it correctly or not. So there's no need to apologize so far.

That is easy. First Russia deploys troops along the Ukrainian border [1]. Then it sends in a 'humanitarian convoy' unapproved by Ukraine [2]. Next Russian soldiers are being arrested inside Ukraine [3]. [..]

Why is there a need for Russian 'peace proposals' if Russia is at peace with Ukraine?[4] If this is an internal Ukrainian issue, why is Russia even involved?[5]

[1] Russia deploying troops within its state borders is Russian internal affair. It also is an understandable measure when just a few km out there someone is shelling cities with prohibited weapons.

[2] There's nothing wrong with humanitarian convoy being sent where it's needed, and besides it was approved by Ukraine, who just did not guarantee the convoy's safety. That was found acceptable, so the convoy was delivered anyway.

[3] 10 soldiers arrested inside Ukraine did not engage Ukrainians and did not have orders to do so. Also did not resist to being arrested. This all hardly make an invasion.

[4] Russia is at peace with Ukraine, but Ukraine has civil war lasting for months. Besides, Russian migration authorities say they have up to million refugees from there to take care of (only 200'000 confirmed by UN so far though). So Russia is interested in ending this civil war ASAP, and that constitutes a need for peaceful proposals.

[5] Technically and militarily it is a Ukrainian internal matter, yes. However, Russia is up to its neck in it politically and economically, as so is the rest of the world. International sanctions and frequent accusations of aggression (up to yesterday's claim made by Mr.Poroshenko) make Russia somewhat involved. No surprise Russia wants it ended, and proposes that all the Ukrainian internal matters are resolved peacefully.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Russian peace proposals...being constantly blocked in UNSC', by the way. Is this what Russian media are telling? Being blocked would imply Russian resolution proposals being vetoed. I'm unaware of any Russian resolution proposals concerning Eastern Ukraine being vetoed.

Yes, it's what Russian media is telling. Is yours telling a different story?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Yes, it's what Russian media is telling. Is yours telling a different story?

What is it? Do you have an English versiom of those proposals?

 

[Agent327]

Just wondering, does this apply to Russia only, or to other countries as well?

13.06.2014, Millerovo, Rostov region
"At least one Ukrainian armored vehicle crossed the Russian border with Ukraine Friday overnight and stopped in the Rostov Region, according to Russia’s Security Service. The military abandoned the vehicle and returned to Ukraine."
http://rt.com/news/165780-ukraine-russia-apc-border/

So they gave Russia some old junk back. How nice of them. I'm sure it will get recycled.

I don't think this is actually about Russian soldiers 'getting lost'. In case you missed the point. Apparently, some soldiers even invade the wrong country.

Ukrainian media was faster at reporting, yes.

Understandable. One can't be expected to keep track of all one's soldiers, now can one?

[1] Russia deploying troops within its state borders is Russian internal affair. It also is an understandable measure when just a few km out there someone is shelling cities with prohibited weapons.

True. But helping separatists in another country is not.

[2] There's nothing wrong with humanitarian convoy being sent where it's needed, and besides it was approved by Ukraine, who just did not guarantee the convoy's safety. That was found acceptable, so the convoy was delivered anyway.

I don't think anyone is complaining about humanitarian aid being delivered. I mentioned earlier that this was a good sign.

[3] 10 soldiers arrested inside Ukraine did not engage Ukrainians and did not have orders to do so. Also did not resist to being arrested. This all hardly make an invasion.

I don't know who mentioned an invasion. I certainly didn't.

[4] Russia is at peace with Ukraine, but Ukraine has civil war lasting for months. Besides, Russian migration authorities say they have up to million refugees from there to take care of (only 200'000 confirmed by UN so far though). So Russia is interested in ending this civil war ASAP, and that constitutes a need for peaceful proposals.

So we can drop the 'internal Ukrainian affair' idea. Or not:

[5] Technically and militarily it is a Ukrainian internal matter, yes. However, Russia is up to its neck in it politically and economically, as so is the rest of the world. International sanctions and frequent accusations of aggression (up to yesterday's claim made by Mr.Poroshenko) make Russia somewhat involved. No surprise Russia wants it ended, and proposes that all the Ukrainian internal matters are resolved peacefully.

I'm sure you are aware that Mr Poroshenko is also a party in the conflict. He can hardly be expected to profess 'neutral' opinions. I'm sure everyone involved would like it ended, but opinions differ on how it should be ended. As far as I know, Ukraine didn't start attacking the Eastern Ukraine region, but the other way around. I am still puzzled as to why.

Yes, it's what Russian media is telling. Is yours telling a different story?[/QUOTE]

My Russian is limited to the Cyrillic alphabet. So I can't really see if this mentions Russian resolution proposals being vetoed, of which I'm still unaware.

 

[Daw]

What is it? Do you have an English versiom of those proposals?

My Russian is limited to the Cyrillic alphabet. So I can't really see if this mentions Russian resolution proposals being vetoed, of which I'm still unaware.

Recently I've developed a habit of recommending using Bing to get a translation of a web-page. Simply copy-paste the url in the left box and click it when it appears in the right one.

Google also can be used but its translations are crippled far beyond my tolerance level. It gets hurtful when it confuses passive and active voices changing the meaning to the opposite. Can't do.

 

[red_elk]

I don't think this is actually about Russian soldiers 'getting lost'. In case you missed the point. Apparently, some soldiers even invade the wrong country.

This is about the argument that it was impossible for Russian soldiers to accidentally cross the border. There is no physical border, just fields and forests - Ukrainian APCs in June made very similar incursion in 20 km inside Rostov region. Ukrainian troops also were armed, also didn't shoot at anyone, but instead of surrendering to border guards, they fled back, leaving one broken APC.

 

[Daw]

"28.08.2014 — the United Nations Security Council on Thursday held an emergency meeting on the situation in Ukraine. Speaking to members of the Security Council, UN Under-Secretary-General for political affairs Jeffrey Feltman said there's a need to find a constructive solution to the crisis, the consequences of which can go far beyond Ukraine.

[...]

According to Mr.Feltman, there is a need to urgently to ensure the strength of the border between the two countries under international supervision, as was due at talks in Minsk. Mr.Feltman said that the first bilateral consultations of Russian and Ukrainian border guards are to be held on August 30.

Jeffrey Feltman stressed that the main task now is to reverse the escalation of fighting in the past two days, and move from armed conflict to political dialogue."

(c) Source @ un.org, couldn't find English version, so use Bing again.

High time, I'm all for it.

 

[calad]

"Soldiers Mothers of St. Petersburg " organisation designated as a foreign agent by Russian Ministry of Justice.

So dont ask Russian mothers why your son is in plastic bag, you are a foreign agent.

http://ria.ru/society/20140829/1021899717.html

 

[Daw]

"Soldiers Mothers of St. Petersburg " organisation designated as a foreign agent by Russian Ministry of Justice.

So dont ask Russian mothers why your son is in plastic bag, you are a foreign agent.

http://ria.ru/society/20140829/1021899717.html

That's quite twisted.

According to Russian legislation, any non-commercial organization financed from abroad AND working in political field must disclose this information after which it's free to keep doing what it was doing.

Apparently, "Soldier's mothers" recieved some financial support from abroad they forgot to report, and since they are also known to be politically engaged against conscription (a position I'm all supportive of, btw), they are subject for this news. If so, they will get fined and keep working.

Interestingly, FSB and the Prosecution were checking the "Soldier's mothers" since last year under request of someone Anatoly Artjukh, an orthodox activist and also an assistant of Vitaly Milonov - a known nuts and an embarrassing psycho in St.Petersburg local parliament.

 

[Winner]

Russia is trying hard to spoil its relations with Ukraine forever.

Nato accuses Russia of violating Ukraine sovereignty

Nato has accused Russia of a "blatant violation" of Ukraine's sovereignty, saying it is engaged in direct military operations to support rebels.

Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said that "despite hollow denials", it was now clear that Russia had illegally crossed Ukraine's border.

He said Nato would respect any Ukrainian decision on security, after its PM said he was putting the country on course for Nato membership.

Russia denies sending troops and arms.

Russian President Vladimir Putin blamed the Ukrainian government for the crisis, comparing its siege of two cities held by separatists, Donetsk and Luhansk, to the siege of Leningrad by the Nazis in World War Two.

"It is necessary to make the Ukrainian authorities start substantial talks [with the rebels]," he said.

Nearly 2,600 people have been killed since April, the UN says, when Russia's annexation of Crimea prompted the rebels to take control of large parts of Donetsk and Luhansk regions in the far east of Ukraine.

Earlier, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk said the government was re-opening the question of Nato membership.

He said it was sending a bill to parliament calling for Ukraine's non-aligned status to be cancelled, in effect paving the way for Ukraine to join Nato.

'Dangerous pattern'

Speaking at a news conference after a meeting of Nato ambassadors to discuss the crisis, Mr Rasmussen said that it was clear Russia had illegally crossed the border into Ukraine and was engaged in direct military operations there.

"This is not an isolated action, but part of a dangerous pattern over many months to destabilise Ukraine as a sovereign nation," he said.

"This is a blatant violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. It defies all diplomatic efforts for a peaceful solution."

He called on Russia to cease military action, stop supporting the rebels and "take immediate and verifiable steps towards de-escalation of this grave crisis".

Mr Rasmussen indicated Nato was open to considering Ukraine's application to join if it met the conditions.

BBC

 

[red_elk]

Putin urges rebels to make humanitarian corridor for blocked Ukrainian troops

President Putin has called on self-defense militias in Ukraine to provide Kiev's military units blocked in the east of the country with a safe humanitarian corridor to leave the combat area and "reunite with their families."

“It is clear the militia has achieved a major success in intercepting Kiev’s military operation, which represents a grave danger to the population of Donbass and which has already led to the loss of many lives among peaceful residents,” the Russian leader said in a statement.

http://rt.com/news/183520-ukraine-russia-putin-militia/

Reportedly, several thousands of Ukrainian troops with a few hundreds of armored vehicles are currently blocked by rebel forces in Ilovaysk-Amvrosievka region, south-east of Donetsk. Rebel commanders already agreed to let surrounded soldiers out, if they agree to disarm.

 

[Daw]

August 27

Red Cross officials to accompany Russia’s new aid convoy to Ukraine (c)

August 29

Moscow sent another humanitarian convoy note to Kiev on Thursday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday.


“Our official note on Russia’s intention to send a new humanitarian convoy to the southeast of Ukraine had been delivered to the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry last Sunday, five days ago.”

“The day before yesterday we received an answer from the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry that expressed an agreement in principle to the sending of Russian humanitarian aid to the southeast of Ukraine and expressed the Ukrainian view on the logistics of this second convoy,” Lavrov said.(c)

Like an early warning just to avoid everybody freaking out saying that it was all of a sudden and nobody told anybody anything when it happens.

UN is officially aware and sound like what I interpret as supportive:

29 August

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) should actively participate in sending Russia’s next relief aid convoy to eastern Ukraine, a senior UN human rights official said on Friday.

[...]

“The trend is clear and alarming. There is a significant increase in the death toll in the east,” Simonovic told journalists as he presented a report by a UN monitoring mission.

(C)

 

[Daw]

Reportedly, several thousands of Ukrainian troops with a few hundreds of armored vehicles are currently blocked by rebel forces in Ilovaysk-Amvrosievka region, south-east of Donetsk. Rebel commanders already agreed to let surrounded soldiers out, if they agree to disarm.

After which I bet Russia will face a new wave of accusations for supplying the rebels with those few hundred armored vehicles.

 

[Yeekim]

I wonder how exactly does one block "a few hundred armored vehicles" without having at least similar grade weaponry?

 

[red_elk]

Looks like rebels bypassed Mariupol in their advance and entered Zaporozhye region. First clashes reported outside of usual Donetsk-Lugansk regions.

Spoiler :

RT video from Saur-Mogila hill, recaptured by rebels yesterday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1KcboIqjCo

 

[red_elk]

I wonder how exactly does one block "a few hundred armored vehicles" without having at least similar grade weaponry?

As far as I understand the situation, this is not a full encirclement with overwhelming force. Rebels just cut off all supply roads from them, but Ukrainian troops still have the ability to break through and reunite with other forces. Provided they have such order, as well as enough fuel and ammo. But judging from the previous cases with "southern pocket", Ukrainian leadership is very reluctant to give orders to retreat, most likely for political reasons.

 

[Daw]

I wonder how exactly does one block "a few hundred armored vehicles" without having at least similar grade weaponry?

No idea, I'm not a military. Wild guess would be by cutting supply lines off and preventing them from getting out with artillery and mines.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Kiev to reinstate army conscription in coming months

Ukraine announced on Thursday that it will return to mandatory conscription in the coming months as its troops battle pro-Russian insurgents in the east.

"The National Security and Defence Council has decided to restart conscription in the fall (autumn)," Mykhailo Koval, deputy head of the council, said after an emergency meeting chaired by President Petro Poroshenko.

Ukraine's government decided last year to switch to a contract-based professional army, ending Soviet-style bi-annual drafts in the spring and fall for men between 18 and 25.

The last call-up into the Ukrainian armed forces, numbering 168,000 people in the beginning of 2014, was in October 2013 for a period of one year.

In April the military announced partial mobilisation for people with military experience ahead of its operation in the east, where pro-Russian insurgents had declared two regions independent of Kiev's authority.

 

[Daw]

Looks like rebels bypassed Mariupol in their advance and entered Zaporozhye region.

Kolomoisky is discussing "plan B" (unreliable Russian source, use Bing if you're interested, but it's more or less yellow)

 

[red_elk]

use Bing if you're interested

I can read Russian