What is "business casual"?

[Ajidica]

I'm starting a new job on Monday and it is a definite step up from my old job; the only reason it doesn't have the "Director of" title is because they had to adjust it to match their internal HR scale as I had fewer years of experience going in. I'll be interacting quite a bit with commodity traders at the company, who from the few I've met tend to dress nicely and trendy.

My work wardrobe needs an overhaul. Pre-covid it was a fairly unflattering mix of poorly fitted khakis and button downs I got for Christmas. Post-covid, the work dress code slid massively and company-wide settled on what I would describe as "15 year old applying for a summer job". The stuff I have is old, never particularly liked, and doesn't fit me the best as I've slimed down a bit over the last few years.
I've been putting off going shopping because of decision paralysis and I never have any idea what a lot of fashion terms mean, so what better way to overcome that by asking you all for your thoughts! (The number of thoughts I will get is n+1, where n is the number of posts in the thread.)

When I interviewed, I interviewed with three women and four guys. I do not understand female business casual so all I can say it was not a suit. One of the male interviewers was the CEO and the other was a long-term board member, so they were exercising their prerogative to show up in a polo and khakis like they were about to go golfing. The other two guys wore nice fitted button downs, no ties.
(FWIW regarding shirts I always wear a t-shirt underneath, as when I get nervous I sweat a lot underarms.)

Some Initial Questions:
1. Are leather dress shoes needed, or can I get away with nicer sneakers?
2. Button downs, how bold or subdued should the pattern be?
3. On button downs, top up done or not done? I've seen it go both ways.
4. Button downs designed to be worn untucked - yea or nay?
5. Belts? I know the ones with a more mettalic / matte look are becoming popular over normal old leather and buckle belts, but I'm never sure if they fit business casual.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Leather dress shoes may annoy Vegans and possibly any Hindus or Muslims.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Since when are sneakers (we call them runners here, or running shoes) considered any kind of business wear? I know my respect for one of the tellers at my bank plummeted when I saw her wearing jeans and something that... I dunno what it was. It covered her upper body, but wasn't anything I'd considered businesslike.

There must be dress shoes or "casual dress shoes" that aren't made of leather.

Hm. You could either ask the advice of someone working in a men's store or department, or visit a company similar to the one you'll be working at and study what the male employees wear there.

 

[lymond]

Some Initial Questions:
1. Are leather dress shoes needed, or can I get away with nicer sneakers? I'd not wear sneaks generally, except if yall have casual days (jean days). Casual shoes should be fine..generally leather. Depends on what you are wearing too. Johnston & Murphy has some great stuff and relatively decent prices. Your shoes should go with what you are wearing.
2. Button downs, how bold or subdued should the pattern be? I'd go with solids/stripes at first until you get a feel for the styles others are wearing. Oxford shirts are fine.
3. On button downs, top up done or not done? I've seen it go both ways. I'd only button up fully if wearing a tie
4. Button downs designed to be worn untucked - yea or nay? Always tuck in your shirts
5. Belts? I know the ones with a more mettalic / matte look are becoming popular over normal old leather and buckle belts, but I'm never sure if they fit business casual. Only leather belts for me. I'd get nice black and brown belts.

You may be able to wear nice polos in warmer months, but that can vary from company to company, business to business. And yes, I always wore t-shirts underneath for the same reason, and I think it just looks better.

Cotton/khaki pants in warm months, or light wool. Heavier wool pants in the colder months. Black/Charcoal Grey/Dark Blue.

Valka has great idea about checking out some men's stores for advice.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm starting a new job on Monday and it is a definite step up from my old job; the only reason it doesn't have the "Director of" title is because they had to adjust it to match their internal HR scale as I had fewer years of experience going in. I'll be interacting quite a bit with commodity traders at the company, who from the few I've met tend to dress nicely and trendy.

My work wardrobe needs an overhaul. Pre-covid it was a fairly unflattering mix of poorly fitted khakis and button downs I got for Christmas. Post-covid, the work dress code slid massively and company-wide settled on what I would describe as "15 year old applying for a summer job". The stuff I have is old, never particularly liked, and doesn't fit me the best as I've slimed down a bit over the last few years.
I've been putting off going shopping because of decision paralysis and I never have any idea what a lot of fashion terms mean, so what better way to overcome that by asking you all for your thoughts! (The number of thoughts I will get is n+1, where n is the number of posts in the thread.)

When I interviewed, I interviewed with three women and four guys. I do not understand female business casual so all I can say it was not a suit. One of the male interviewers was the CEO and the other was a long-term board member, so they were exercising their prerogative to show up in a polo and khakis like they were about to go golfing. The other two guys wore nice fitted button downs, no ties.
(FWIW regarding shirts I always wear a t-shirt underneath, as when I get nervous I sweat a lot underarms.)

Some Initial Questions:
1. Are leather dress shoes needed, or can I get away with nicer sneakers?
2. Button downs, how bold or subdued should the pattern be?
3. On button downs, top up done or not done? I've seen it go both ways.
4. Button downs designed to be worn untucked - yea or nay?
5. Belts? I know the ones with a more mettalic / matte look are becoming popular over normal old leather and buckle belts, but I'm never sure if they fit business casual.

Ask?

Follow the crowd. so on your first day wear nice pants, a dress shirt that is white or blue; wear a belt and if you have them, casual dress shoes rather than sneakers. Take a jacket and tie in your car, just in case. Then see what everyone else is wearing and copy them going forward. As the weeks go by you can adjust as you see fit and see what others wear over time and through the seasons and for special events.

 

[Angst]

the opposite of business gamer

 

[Gori the Grey]

1) Leather shoes
2) Bold as you want, so long as it's not garish
3) Don't understand question
4) Tucked, except for "Casual Fridays"
5) Belt

 

[Valka D'Ur]

3) Don't understand question

He's asking if he should do his shirts up all the way, or if it's okay to have the top button undone (presumably for comfort).

 

[Gori the Grey]

Thanks, Valka.

3) Top button can be undone.

 

[schlaufuchs]

Ask?

Follow the crowd. so on your first day wear nice pants, a dress shirt that is white or blue; wear a belt and if you have them, casual dress shoes rather than sneakers. Take a jacket and tie in your car, just in case. Then see what everyone else is wearing and copy them going forward. As the weeks go by you can adjust as you see fit and see what others wear over time and through the seasons and for special events.

This is very good advice.

Generally business casual means like collared button-downs and nice sweaters (MAYBE polos), slacks or chinos, loafers or dress shoes, with no tie or suit jacket

I wouldn’t wear jeans or sneakers until/unless I’d been there for at least a couple months and directly observed either direct supervisors or peers in my department wearing them on multiple separate occasions.

 

[lymond]

Eh...you might get away with untucked polos on a casual day, but I'd never untuck dress shirts at work - just looks silly. Untucked tends to work better on taller dudes, if there is not a lot of shirt hang - unlike in my case. Still think it is quite unprofessional to go untucked.

 

[JollyRoger]

At JR Enterprises. business casual means pants are optional and topless is mandatory

 

[Birdjaguar]

JR Ewing would approve.

 

[Ajidica]

Thanks all!

 

[warpus]

I bet this is a bit industry specific. If you're a programmer, "Business casual" can often have a more lax interpretation than certain other types of work. Also might depend on the company. If it's a startup, business casual might mean something even more lax still.

IMO it's all in the context. If you're in a customer facing position in an environment where everybody dresses like somebody died.. That's a bit different compared to a position where you have zero face2face interaction with clients and your boss wears black jeans

 

[Valka D'Ur]

JR Ewing would approve.

I'm trying and failing to remember more than a handful of times when J.R. Ewing wasn't wearing a business suit. Other than the time he was in prison and the time he was in the mental institution, of course. And the hospital, after he was shot. He might have worn a tux in Vienna, during the season that was just Pam's dream. He didn't do casual very often, unless you count his hunting outfit as casual (it was spiffy-casual, I guess).

 

[Lexicus]

Generally business casual means like collared button-downs and nice sweaters (MAYBE polos), slacks or chinos, loafers or dress shoes, with no tie or suit jacket

Yeah, at my job we do business casual with ties. I really thought wearing a tie would be absolute torture and that all the skin on my neck would be gone within a week but that hasn't proved to be the case, probably because I have shirts that are actually big enough in the neck for me now.
Moderator Action: snip cheers - lymond
That's kind of gratuitously mean, though I agree that it's incredibly silly to respect someone based on the clothes they're wearing and not their competence.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I agree that it's incredibly silly to respect someone based on the clothes they're wearing and not their competence.

Let's put it this way: There are standards for dress codes, since this thread exists to discuss them. In banks - at least those around here - the only time people working there might normally be expected to wear jeans, a cowboy shirt, and maybe boots would be during our annual Westerner Days (summer rodeo and fair).

Jeans at any other time of year are not appropriate.

 

[Lexicus]

Let's put it this way: There are standards for dress codes, since this thread exists to discuss them. In banks - at least those around here - the only time people working there might normally be expected to wear jeans, a cowboy shirt, and maybe boots would be during our annual Westerner Days (summer rodeo and fair).

Jeans at any other time of year are not appropriate.

Why are jeans not appropriate?

 

[Plains-Cow]

Leather dress shoes may annoy Vegans and possibly any Hindus or Muslims.

Muslims wipe over leather socks. It's quite common for Muslims to have leather accessories and shoes.