Why Civ always avoided Israelites?

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I just find it odd that I have many FPS type of games with Nazis all through them. I can play as the Allies or I can play as the Axis in them. I can even shoot Nazi Zombies in some of them... go figure. I just don't understand how a game that is called Civilization refuses to put the Israelites in it or even Hitler and the Nazis. They had no problem putting in the mechanic SLAVERY which I and a whole community enjoyed for years and still do whipping our citizens into shape because it was the best play to win the game. I do not understand how people blame One Leader for a Nation and other Nations of mistakes. It certainly took a country to board millions of people of Jewish decent and other undesirables onto trains and into the Ghettos and into the Concentration Camps. These are people who grew up together and were next door neighbors but when push came to shove they thought that it was better them than I. So you have to blame what happened on an individual basis and it was many individuals doing their part in accomplishing what happened. I would rather Germany just be excluded from the game rather than act as if Hitler and the Nazis aren't part of history. Although I can understand why they aren't in the game it is harder for me to understand why Muslim Nations are in the game but Israel is not. In the end... it really doesn't matter. It is a pretty dumb game that is getting further from History and more into Fantasy from my observation and experiences.
 
I don't think Firaxis would want to take stand in current political events. And like it or not that would cause a lot of controversy one way or the other.

IMHO the best thing is to stay completely out of it like they do, but some would even interpret that as taking a stance (but nowhere near what they'll be facing if they included an Isreal civ).
I think what they've done is the smart thing in the long run anyway, and this has absolutely nothing to do with my own stance on Isreal.

Can't mention Israel. But did you notice that Saladin / Arabians special ability: says they receive the last Great Prophet generated in the game. Good thing Firaxis is not making any political or religious statements.
 
Lots of the average players and prospective buyer out there can't differentiate the Kingdom of Judah and the modern state of Israel.
I, too, would not want Israel in-game. If I have to choose, I'd rather see Tibet first, too.
 
In response to OP, they don't put in Isreal/Hebrews for the same reason they don't add Adolf Hitler in as a leader for Germany: it would alienate people from the game for political reasons. Hell, they wouldn't even be able to sell it to Germans if Hitler was in it.

I think these points are comparable since Hitler's "reign" is similar to Stalin's or Alexander's the Great's (Alexander's empire immediately dissolved after his death pretty much) empires and their attitudes toward war, and both of the latter leaders have been in previous CIV's.
 
I just find it odd that I have many FPS type of games with Nazis all through them. I can play as the Allies or I can play as the Axis in them. I can even shoot Nazi Zombies in some of them... go figure. I just don't understand how a game that is called Civilization refuses to put the Israelites in it or even Hitler and the Nazis. They had no problem putting in the mechanic SLAVERY which I and a whole community enjoyed for years and still do whipping our citizens into shape because it was the best play to win the game. I do not understand how people blame One Leader for a Nation and other Nations of mistakes. It certainly took a country to board millions of people of Jewish decent and other undesirables onto trains and into the Ghettos and into the Concentration Camps. These are people who grew up together and were next door neighbors but when push came to shove they thought that it was better them than I. So you have to blame what happened on an individual basis and it was many individuals doing their part in accomplishing what happened. I would rather Germany just be excluded from the game rather than act as if Hitler and the Nazis aren't part of history. Although I can understand why they aren't in the game it is harder for me to understand why Muslim Nations are in the game but Israel is not. In the end... it really doesn't matter. It is a pretty dumb game that is getting further from History and more into Fantasy from my observation and experiences.
Of course you can play as the Nazis or the Allies in other games. You know why? Because these are games about World War II. Civilization is NOT a game about World War II.
And saying that Civ has ignored the Nazi period in Germany is stupid. Germany has been described as a "militaristic" civ in previous installments, the Panzer was a unique unit multiple times, Heinz Guderian and Erwin Rommel were included on the great generals list, Prora was a wonder in Civ V. How can you say after all that Civ ignores the Nazi period in history?! Not to mention fascism is always an option. Hitler is not included because he was a terrible leader that is disliked in Germany itself. When choosing a leader, the developers go for heroes of the nation, people who have led their nations to greatness, and were respected on the world stage. Hitler was none of that. Plus, Hitler represents an ideology that openly supports racism, so he is an awful choice for a leader. Hitler can only be a leader in a game about World War II, and as I said, Civilization is a general history game, and does not focus on any specific time period, and each civ is represented by its accomplishments, not by its failures.
As for Israel, no matter how much you want it, Israel was never as important as other civs in its region. Therefore, it is not a top priority. Is there a chance they will be in the game eventually? Of course there is. Every installment of civ brings us new civilizations. Civ VI brings us the Norwegians, the Scyths, and the Kongolese. And it is not like Israel is the only civ that has been ignored. How about Hungary? Does Hungary not deserve to be in the game? The Muisca Confederation was an important South American entity. Don't they deserve to be in the game? History is full of interesting civilizations that can be added, and there is always room for expansion.
 
Not having Israel as a playable civ is PC nonsense. The game has no issue with having Saladin and the Arabs, despite all the recent wars in the Middle East and the problem of radical Islam. The game even has Inquisitors as a playable unit. The game is not shy about controversies. But it can't put Israel in the game because it would offend the Arab World?
 
I actually never cared and hardly got into Mods but it does appear that I can play as King David or Hitler in Civ V downloading the Mods from Steam.
 
The game is not shy about controversies.

Hmm.. not so sure about that. Mao and Stalin haven't been used as leaders in over 10 years and all the leaders we got after them were pretty "safe" choices. Either because they weren't that controversial or because they have died so long ago that they stopped being controversial. I mean: Montezuma and the Aztecs slaughtered hundreds of thousands if not millions of people as part of their religion, but since that was centuries ago, nobody seems to think of him as a "risky" choice.

As to why there are no Israelites in the game when we do have other Civs from their very early period (like Babylon, Sumeria or Assyria)? I can only speculate, but I do fear it has to do with the more recent history of the state of Israel and its people. OTOH, you could argue that, *as a Civ or "empire"*, the Israelite tribes haven't had that much of an impact on world history or simply aren't unique enough to warrant their inclusion.

*shrug*

S.
 
As to why there are no Israelites in the game when we do have other Civs from their very early period (like Babylon, Sumeria or Assyria)? I can only speculate, but I do fear it has something to do with the more recent history of Israel and its people.

I just think it is nonsense to keep Ancient Israel out of the game because some people hate the modern state of Israel. I think an Ancient Israel civ with King Solomon as the leader would be fantastic.
 
I just think it is nonsense to keep Ancient Israel out of the game because some people hate the modern state of Israel. I think an Ancient Israel civ with King Solomon as the leader would be fantastic.

Well.. at least they got a nod (sort of) via the inclusion of the "What have the Romans ever done for us...?"-quote from "Life of Brian" .. ;)
 
I just think it is nonsense to keep Ancient Israel out of the game because some people hate the modern state of Israel. I think an Ancient Israel civ with King Solomon as the leader would be fantastic.

Well of course Israel, modern or ancient, is qualified to be a civ in it's own right. The hebrew nation is undoubtedly on of the most influental nations of all time by it's religious and cultural impact on the west, e middle east and the South. However, civ is about building empires in one way or another and the hebrew has never claimed to build an empire. At least not in historical eras. They have lived i diaspora and coveted their promised land. Until civ IV this has been a valid argument. In Civ V and VI civs that has never been more than nation states has been included. Countries like Brazil and Norway har never really had imperial ambitions. The imperial ambitions of the vikings should rightfully be represented by the Danes as in earlier civs. I don not think that the political situation in modern Israel is the issue here.

The essential difference between Israel and other nations with great impact on the world is that the others more or less openly have claimed influence over other peoples. The hebrew People on the other hand has had a hard time trying to convince other peoples that they have no other ambition than existing in diaspora or in Palestine/Israel. The concept that jews seek to defeat other nations by economic, religious, scientific or cultural influence is understandibly too controversion for firaxis. Just think of what the special traits would be.

For example.

Let my People Go!- When a conquered builder or settler is recaptured, also garn a great prophet or apostle.


Diaspora
Gain economic, cultural, military and scientific boost from any city where judaism is represented.

Promised land, jewish district, progromes and holocaust -
Restricted like Venice to one city only. Gain a settler if you loss your capital. If you lose your capital gain a settler that when killed within another civ borders will reappear outside the borders. Special ability to settle within other civs borders. Significant boost i every area if resettled on the original capitalspot.

Ability to build a district with a builder within any city belonging to an empire that has republic, mercantile republic or democracy. Diplomatic option for other government types except fascism and comminism. Gain a builder if a another civ opts to throw you out. If the government type is changed to fascism or comminism you lose your district and don't get a new builder but instead you get a significant boost in diplomatic influence.

As you see. Too controversial for any publisher. I would however love to play it. Can someone please make this mod??

Anything less than this would only be disqppointing.
 
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They have lived i diaspora and coveted their promised land.

Well, that's the Zionist myth. You'd have a hard time finding any source for that before, say, 1850.

Not having Israel as a playable civ is PC nonsense. The game has no issue with having Saladin and the Arabs, despite all the recent wars in the Middle East and the problem of radical Islam.

Which, unfortunately, are not related in any way to Saladin and the Arabs.
 
Well, that's the Zionist myth. You'd have a hard time finding any source for that before, say, 1850.

Well yes. But you will also have a hard time finding an israeli state before 1948. Civ builds already a lot on national myths created in the 19th century since nationalism as a concept arose then. Zionism is basicly the hebrew itaration of nationalism.
 
Well of course Israel, modern or ancient, is qualified to be a civ in it's own right. The hebrew nation is undoubtedly on of the most influental nations of all time by it's religious and cultural impact on the west, e middle east and the South. However, civ is about building empires in one way or another and the hebrew has never claimed to build an empire. At least not in historical eras. They have lived i diaspora and coveted their promised land. Until civ IV this has been a valid argument. In Civ V and VI civs that has never been more than nation states has been included. Countries like Brazil and Norway har never really had imperial ambitions. The imperial ambitions of the vikings should rightfully be represented by the Danes as in earlier civs. I don not think that the political situation in modern Israel is the issue here.

The essential difference between Israel and other nations with great impact on the world is that the others more or less openly have claimed influence over other peoples. The hebrew People on the other hand has had a hard time trying to convince other peoples that they have no other ambition than existing in diaspora or in Palestine/Israel. The concept that jews seek to defeat other nations by economic, religious, scientific or cultural influence is understandibly too controversion for firaxis. Just think of what the special traits would be.

For example.

Let my People Go!- When a conquered builder or settler is recaptured, also garn a great prophet or apostle.


Diaspora
Gain economic, cultural, military and scientific boost from any city where judaism is represented.

Promised land, jewish district, progromes and holocaust -
Restricted like Venice to one city only. Gain a settler if you loss your capital. If you lose your capital gain a settler that when killed within another civ borders will reappear outside the borders. Special ability to settle within other civs borders. Significant boost i every area if resettled on the original capitalspot.

Ability to build a district with a builder within any city belonging to an empire that has republic, mercantile republic or democracy. Diplomatic option for other government types except fascism and comminism. Gain a builder if a another civ opts to throw you out. If the government type is changed to fascism or comminism you lose your district and don't get a new builder but instead you get a significant boost in diplomatic influence.

As you see. Too controversial for any publisher. I would however love to play it. Can someone please make this mod??

Anything less than this would only be disqppointing.

Sounds fun... You probably could keep going on all sort of special bonuses or negative bonuses for this Civ... see it would be fun!!
 
Sounds fun... You probably could keep going on all sort of special bonuses or negative bonuses for this Civ... see it would be fun!!

The more I think of it yes! The jewish district could provide a cultural, economic or scientific boost to the hosting civ aswell as to the israeli but it also cause some kind of civil unrest for its host if there is lack of housing, food or amenties.

Wish I knew how to mod...
 
Well of course Israel, modern or ancient, is qualified to be a civ in it's own right. The hebrew nation is undoubtedly on of the most influental nations of all time by it's religious and cultural impact on the west, e middle east and the South. However, civ is about building empires in one way or another and the hebrew has never claimed to build an empire. At least not in historical eras. They have lived i diaspora and coveted their promised land. Until civ IV this has been a valid argument. In Civ V and VI civs that has never been more than nation states has been included. Countries like Brazil and Norway har never really had imperial ambitions. The imperial ambitions of the vikings should rightfully be represented by the Danes as in earlier civs. I don not think that the political situation in modern Israel is the issue here.

The essential difference between Israel and other nations with great impact on the world is that the others more or less openly have claimed influence over other peoples. The hebrew People on the other hand has had a hard time trying to convince other peoples that they have no other ambition than existing in diaspora or in Palestine/Israel. The concept that jews seek to defeat other nations by economic, religious, scientific or cultural influence is understandibly too controversion for firaxis. Just think of what the special traits would be.

For example.

Let my People Go!- When a conquered builder or settler is recaptured, also garn a great prophet or apostle.


Diaspora
Gain economic, cultural, military and scientific boost from any city where judaism is represented.

Promised land, jewish district, progromes and holocaust -
Restricted like Venice to one city only. Gain a settler if you loss your capital. If you lose your capital gain a settler that when killed within another civ borders will reappear outside the borders. Special ability to settle within other civs borders. Significant boost i every area if resettled on the original capitalspot.

Ability to build a district with a builder within any city belonging to an empire that has republic, mercantile republic or democracy. Diplomatic option for other government types except fascism and comminism. Gain a builder if a another civ opts to throw you out. If the government type is changed to fascism or comminism you lose your district and don't get a new builder but instead you get a significant boost in diplomatic influence.

As you see. Too controversial for any publisher. I would however love to play it. Can someone please make this mod??

Anything less than this would only be disqppointing.
These are absolutely horrible and somewhat even disgusting and insulting ideas. Making a civ based on the Jewish Diaspora? Come on...
If you make Israel a civ, you make one of two: Ancient Israel or the modern State of Israel. Now, the modern State of Israel would be a silly choice because it exists since the mid 20th century, and even if you extend it to the first Aliya of the late 19th century it is not enough. Combining the ancient and modern entities would be stupid. It would be like giving Ancient Egypt Muslim elements, or making a Roman civ with Italian elements.
So we are going for Ancient Israel. Ancient Israel should represent the period between Joshua's conquest and the Bar Kokhva rebellion, and cover the times of the 12 tribes, the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, the Hasmonean kingdom, and Roman Judea until the unsuccessful Jewish revolt.
The unique ability would be "Holy Land", and it would grant bonuses when fighting within Israel's borders, or in wars of liberation. It also gives bonuses to faith, converting it to happiness for the empire. This is because Judaism is not a missionary religion, so I think it would be right that Israel, unlike, say, Spain, would not want to spread its religion, but rather develop it within its borders.
The leaders should be Solomon (Biblical Israel), with a trade and religion bonus, and Salome Alexandra (Hasmonean Israel), with bonuses to defense and government. Their unique abilities could be "The Wisest Man" for Solomon, and "The Great Sanhedrin" for Salome Alexandra, who also receives the unique unit "Ekatontamachoi", which is a weaker, but cheaper, swordsman.
The unique unit for Israel should be the Slinger of Benjamin - which is either a stronger slinger or one that gets promotions faster.
The unique infrastructure is the Gath - this is the Hebrew word for "wine press", and it can be like a granary that gives bonuses to faith.
 
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I thought about it a bit and Israel is an opportunity to add a female leader, a proper one Golda Meir.

Israeli Leaders

Golda Meir
Special Ability - Make the Desert Bloom - Cities founded on desert tiles have automatic access to fresh water
Capital - Tel Aviv
Agenda - Zionism, likes civs that have never been at war with Israel and does not forgive past offenses

David
Special Ability - The Sheperd King - All pastures give 1 extra faith, 1 adjacency bonus for holy sites, +33% bonus to great prophet generation
Capital - Jerusalem
Agenda - The God of Abraham, will seek to own holy city of his religion and conquer any cities following his religion

Unique Improvement - Kibbutz, available with Nationalism, replaces Neighborhood provides +1 food and +1 appeal in desert tiles

Unique Ability - The Diaspora, all trade routs with foreign civs convert 1 citizen to Israeli religion. If Israel owns holy city Israel receives faith, culture and gold equivalent to 1 citizen's share of the city's production. When Inquisitor used to remove last citizen of israeli religion Israel gets 5 turns of the city's full production.

Unique Unit - Rabbi, replaces inquistor, can be expended at trade hubs, campuses or theatre districts converting it's base faith cost x0.5 for gold, science or culture. If done in a city with a different religion also converts 1 citizen to Israels Religion.

Obviously a desert start bias.

A few wonders

King Solomon's Mines - must be build on mineable luxury produces 4 copies
Solomon's Temple - must be built on desert hill and adjecent to holy site adds 50% to holy site faith production
Masada - Must be built on desert hill not adjecent to a city, has defensive traits of an encampment and is source of fresh water
 
These are absolutely horrible and somewhat even disgusting and insulting ideas. Making a civ based on the Jewish Diaspora? Come on...
If you make Israel a civ, you make one of two: Ancient Israel or the modern State of Israel. Now, the modern State of Israel would be a silly choice because it exists since the mid 20th century, and even if you extend it to the first Aliya of the late 19th century it is not enough. Combining the ancient and modern entities would be stupid. It would be like giving Ancient Egypt Muslim elements, or making a Roman civ with Italian elements.
So we are going for Ancient Israel. Ancient Israel should represent the period between Joshua's conquest and the Bar Kokhva rebellion, and cover the times of the 12 tribes, the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, the Hasmonean kingdom, and Roman Judea until the unsuccessful Jewish revolt.
The unique ability would be "Holy Land", and it would grant bonuses when fighting within Israel's borders, or in wars of liberation. It also gives bonuses to faith, converting it to happiness for the empire. This is because Judaism is not a messianic religion, so I think it would be right that Israel, unlike, say, Spain, would not want to spread its religion, but rather develop it within its borders.
The leaders should be Solomon (Biblical Israel), with a trade and religion bonus, and Salome Alexandra (Hasmonean Israel), with bonuses to defense and government. Their unique abilities could be "The Wisest Man" for Solomon, and "The Great Sanhedrin" for Salome Alexandra, who also receives the unique unit "Ekatontamachoi", which is a weaker, but cheaper, swordsman.
The unique unit for Israel should be the Slinger of Benjamin - which is either a stronger slinger or one that gets promotions faster.
The unique infrastructure is the Gath - this is the Hebrew word for "wine press", and it can be like a granary that gives bonuses to faith.

Tbh I tendens to agree with you a lot. My point is that what makes the hebrew nation great is the unique ability to keep, adjust and develop the nation in diaspora. I threw out a couple of ideas just to illustrate how offensive it would be and rightly so. Gameplaywise however. It would be intresting. A vivid and contributing diaspora is what the hebrew people are famous for.

Maybe Firaxis could pull that of based on your
Biblical history suggestion combined with a few modern traits such as a great boost i great people duett to their over representation among Nobel prize winners. Should not be that controversial.
 
If a Israel mod were to be made (and I'm sure it will), a combination of ancient and modern traits isn't really ideal. Which is why modders usually pick one or the other.

My point is that what makes the hebrew nation great is the unique ability to keep, adjust and develop the nation in diaspora.

Except, of course, for the obvious fact that no 'nation in diaspora' existed. This is just another Zionist myth, based on late 19th century nationalism..
 
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