[Vote] (1-12) Add A New City Fate When Conquering A City-State That Is Under A Sphere of Influence

[akasha27]

So in scenario 2, does the CS go free?

Yes It would go free.

So in scenario 2, does the CS go free? Isn't that "liberation" with some extra benefits then?

You can put it that way, but "Liberate" at the moment only happens when the CS was previously captured

It should be noted that in scenario 1, that removal of a SOI is new, and isn't really mentioned in the proposal. Aka its a stealth feature.

Are you saying that liberating a CS at the moment does not automatically break the SOI? I wasn't aware of that.
If so, wouldn't it be a bug? What's the point to have an active SOI in congress for a City State that belongs to someone else now?

 

[usadefcon1]

What's the point to have an active SOI in congress for a City State that belongs to someone else now?

If you (or someone else) liberates the city it would go back to SOI status instead of just Allied.

 

[Recursive]

Needs Clarification: Is this a change to the liberate option, or is this an entirely new option? If its the latter, does the option ALSO liberate?

If it does liberate, should be noted that freedom's self-determination tenent should include it for bonuses.

Does not liberate in the traditional sense.

I feel this conflicts with the other proposal to make Spheres of Influence harder to propose. I would rather implement the WC changes first, and then see where we stand.

Voting no for now, but as a deferral.

Does not conflict, IMO. If you conquer a City-State, the Sphere of Influence is also negated.

 

[Recursive]

For further clarity, if a City-State dies, any Sphere of Influence involving them is removed.

Edit: There might be a bug preventing it from taking place unless a major civ dies, but the code shows it is clearly intended to be removed. If this bug exists, I will fix it.

 

[Slyceth]

I feel this conflicts with the other proposal to make Spheres of Influence harder to propose. I would rather implement the WC changes first, and then see where we stand.

Voting no for now, but as a deferral.

I disagree, I think it compliments it. That other proposal is about how you acquire city states as spheres of influence while this is how you get rid of spheres of influence outside of the world congress

You need to understand how painful it is when you don't want to own an extra city (city state cities can be absolutely awful) but you still want to stop them from spawning units and attacking you.

It seems pretty logical that when you defeat them, they surrender. It's just another way of conquering and granting vassalage, but to a city state.

 

[Stalker0]

So I think the original proposal needs to be updated with all we have talked about so far. The original text is woefully inadequate to the nuances of the proposal, and I would push for a revote.

 

[akasha27]

So I think the original proposal needs to be updated with all we have talked about so far. The original text is woefully inadequate to the nuances of the proposal, and I would push for a revote.

Agreed, here is a suggestion for re-vote.

Proposal:

This proposal applies to free city states only.

The current city fates are:
- Raze
- Annex
- Puppet
- Liberate (only possible if the CS belongs now to another player, so it does not apply here)

When a free city state is captured by a player, a new city fate is added to the pop up: "Enforce new government" (ENG) - up to suggestions on how this option should be called.

If this option is selected by the player, the City State remains free, it is not captured by the victor.

The voting options should be:

1. Yes, ENG should remove any current alliance or SOI, and enforce Open Doors for 30 turns
2. Yes, ENG should remove any current alliance or SOI, and enforce a new SOI with the victor
3. Nay

I am up to include more suggestions on the Proposal review.
Thank you!

 

[jaymrobinson]

As I currently understand it, I have to say no to the proposal. What exactly is a sphere of influence? It's up to interpretation, but the proposal seems to assume that a CS under Sphere of Influence is done militarily against the will of the CS. But you could also interpret that the CS doesn't necessarily desire to be liberated.

Anyway, I never really like the ideas of Spheres of Influence. I would much rather they be removed from the game. Especially in recent games, it seems almost every session of WC ends up being votes for spheres of influence. I generally find them much less interesting than the other choices.

 

[Recursive]

So I think the original proposal needs to be updated with all we have talked about so far. The original text is woefully inadequate to the nuances of the proposal, and I would push for a revote.

I do not agree, "Remove/Liberate from Sphere of Influence" is plenty clear IMO.

 

[Recursive]

Agreed, here is a suggestion for re-vote.

Proposal:

This proposal applies to free city states only.

The current city fates are:
- Raze
- Annex
- Puppet
- Liberate (only possible if the CS belongs now to another player, so it does not apply here)

When a free city state is captured by a player, a new city fate is added to the pop up: "Enforce new government" (ENG) - up to suggestions on how this option should be called.

If this option is selected by the player, the City State remains free, it is not captured by the victor.

The voting options should be:

1. Yes, ENG should remove any current alliance or SOI, and enforce Open Doors for 30 turns
2. Yes, ENG should remove any current alliance or SOI, and enforce a new SOI with the victor
3. Nay

I am up to include more suggestions on the Proposal review.
Thank you!

This is a new proposal entirely, sorry.

 

[balparmak]

I don't see any harm in implementing this as-is btw. Sure, we'll probably need to address this at some point, but a playtest first would be beneficial. It may be that just removing SoI isn't enough, since SoI holder can (or must, if the other proposal passes) be also the ally, so even if you remove the SoI, you still end up with a hostile CS. On the other hand, enforcing Open Doors or replacing the SoI holder can be too powerful, so who knows, maybe the sponsor will make some tweaks, let's try it first. If the "only allies can sphere" proposal passes, we'll at least need an influence reset for all civs for that CS though.

Agreed, here is a suggestion for re-vote.

Proposal:

This proposal applies to free city states only.

The current city fates are:
- Raze
- Annex
- Puppet
- Liberate (only possible if the CS belongs now to another player, so it does not apply here)

When a free city state is captured by a player, a new city fate is added to the pop up: "Enforce new government" (ENG) - up to suggestions on how this option should be called.

If this option is selected by the player, the City State remains free, it is not captured by the victor.

The voting options should be:

1. Yes, ENG should remove any current alliance or SOI, and enforce Open Doors for 30 turns
2. Yes, ENG should remove any current alliance or SOI, and enforce a new SOI with the victor
3. Nay

I am up to include more suggestions on the Proposal review.
Thank you!

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.