1.20 beta

[Nightstar]

Started another random civ test game, this time got Korea. This time I noticed something odd about the way promotions are displayed on units. If you have multiple levels of a particular promotion type (i.e. City Garrison or Woodsman), it only shows the top promotion level on the unit portrait. The tooltip when you hover the cursor over the unit seems to still show the lower level promotion(s), however.

 

[Xyth]

Started a new test game with the latest 1.20 beta. Picked random civ and got the English. One oddity noted so far, the production button for the Horseman is instead the one that's supposed to go with the Horse Archer.

Fixed, and for the Dutch Horseman too. Those incorrect buttons have probably been around for quite a long time heh.

Started another random civ test game, this time got Korea. This time I noticed something odd about the way promotions are displayed on units. If you have multiple levels of a particular promotion type (i.e. City Garrison or Woodsman), it only shows the top promotion level on the unit portrait. The tooltip when you hover the cursor over the unit seems to still show the lower level promotion(s), however.

An intentional change to de-clutter the selected unit display.

 

[Xyth]

Finally fixed a crash that's been eluding me for a few days. Everything's done, just a few minor loose ends to tidy up. Expect an upload tomorrow.

 

[myclan]

Now if I build a cemetery early, I have to found a religion, producing unhappiness in my city and losing my great prophet at the same time. It's stange that I have to avoid this building, especially when my neighbours don't care religion much or have found their own religion, it will be foolish to convent to my own religion.

 

[Xyth]

Now if I build a cemetery early, I have to found a religion, producing unhappiness in my city and losing my great prophet at the same time. It's stange that I have to avoid this building, especially when my neighbours don't care religion much or have found their own religion, it will be foolish to convent to my own religion.

I've reverted the change where Great Prophets are consumed when founding a religion.

 

[wanderm]

Now if I build a cemetery early, I have to found a religion, producing unhappiness in my city and losing my great prophet at the same time. It's stange that I have to avoid this building, especially when my neighbours don't care religion much or have found their own religion, it will be foolish to convent to my own religion.

I've really enjoyed the changes with founding a religion FWIW, though I had no choice but to go back a level in the beta as I really do use the Great Prophet earlier on.

Looking forward to the download.

 

[myclan]

I've really enjoyed the changes with founding a religion FWIW, though I had no choice but to go back a level in the beta as I really do use the Great Prophet earlier on.

Looking forward to the download.

I also have to go back from Emperor to Monarchy in 1.20beta, AI tech is so fast and I have to suffer great pressure. Maybe the best way for a great prohpet is that we can choose founding a religion or not, but there is to way to acheive it.

 

[myclan]

I've reverted the change where Great Prophets are consumed when founding a religion.

Compared to CIV5, we get so little to found a religion (+1 gold/city if only we have constructed the holy city), and lose so much to convert to a religon (suffering relation penalty with most of the country). So I think the religion system really need some changes to encourage players to invest more in it.

 

[Nightstar]

I've been thinking for a while that making each religion give distinct benefits (perhaps via customizing the temples, monasteries, and maybe even shrines of each to give unique bonuses) would make that part of the game much more interesting.

I think Firaxis made all the religions functionally identical in Civ4 to avoid liability issues (which they avoided in G&K by making them all customizable instead of pre-designed).

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

I didn't try all of the maps, but with the second beta, at the huge and large earth maps have signs on every single tile, saying their coordinates.

 

[Xyth]

I've really enjoyed the changes with founding a religion FWIW, though I had no choice but to go back a level in the beta as I really do use the Great Prophet earlier on.

The system still needs some finetuning but we'll have a better idea of what's needed once we've all had time to play more games of 1.20.

I also have to go back from Emperor to Monarchy in 1.20beta, AI tech is so fast and I have to suffer great pressure. Maybe the best way for a great prohpet is that we can choose founding a religion or not, but there is to way to acheive it.

It is possible and I might consider it in the future (though I'm becoming less fond of the ida, see below). I need to solve the issue where a human player's religion is always founded in the last city built before I can make too many further changes in this area. It's a tricky one.

Compared to CIV5, we get so little to found a religion (+1 gold/city if only we have constructed the holy city), and lose so much to convert to a religon (suffering relation penalty with most of the country). So I think the religion system really need some changes to encourage players to invest more in it.

I've been thinking for a while that making each religion give distinct benefits (perhaps via customizing the temples, monasteries, and maybe even shrines of each to give unique bonuses) would make that part of the game much more interesting.

I think Firaxis made all the religions functionally identical in Civ4 to avoid liability issues (which they avoided in G&K by making them all customizable instead of pre-designed).

Certainly scope for improvement here. That said, I like the idea of religion being a game element that the player can only influence and not control fully. Realistic and makes for interesting gameplay if implemented well. Not there yet.

I didn't try all of the maps, but with the second beta, at the huge and large earth maps have signs on every single tile, saying their coordinates.

That's a tool I use to place starting locations on maps, looks like I forgot to switch it off. Affects all the maps. Fixed.

 

[Nightstar]

I need to solve the issue where a human player's religion is always founded in the last city built before I can make too many further changes in this area.

It's not always the last city built. It seems to depend on a number of different factors, including how many religions are already present in a city. I've had the situation where I had 6+ cities when founding a late religion, and the holy city was the second one built because that was the only one an AI founded religion *hadn't* spread to yet.

It's also not true that the AI will always have their holy city be the one where the prophet was born. There have been times when a neighboring AI founded a religion in a poorly placed city I intended to eventually raze, so I reloaded from an autosave, changed the sequence of events slightly, and got them to found in a different city.

 

[Xyth]

It's not always the last city built. It seems to depend on a number of different factors, including how many religions are already present in a city. I've had the situation where I had 6+ cities when founding a late religion, and the holy city was the second one built because that was the only one an AI founded religion *hadn't* spread to yet.

Yeah, it seems to be the most recent city built that has no, or not many, religions in it. It's controlled somewhere in the DLL and I'd need to build a custom pick religion popup to override it. Doable, but challenging.

It's also not true that the AI will always have their holy city be the one where the prophet was born. There have been times when a neighboring AI founded a religion in a poorly placed city I intended to eventually raze, so I reloaded from an autosave, changed the sequence of events slightly, and got them to found in a different city.

Ah, actually you're right. The AI uses the same code as the human player. I thought I'd overridden that but looks like I chose not to since I couldn't get it working for human players as well. Probably best that way for now then.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

The system still needs some finetuning but we'll have a better idea of what's needed once we've all had time to play more games of 1.20.



It is possible and I might consider it in the future (though I'm becoming less fond of the ida, see below). I need to solve the issue where a human player's religion is always founded in the last city built before I can make too many further changes in this area. It's a tricky one.





Certainly scope for improvement here. That said, I like the idea of religion being a game element that the player can only influence and not control fully. Realistic and makes for interesting gameplay if implemented well. Not there yet.



That's a tool I use to place starting locations on maps, looks like I forgot to switch it off. Affects all the maps. Fixed.

You don't need that to see coordinates. Just press shift or command or option or something - one of those, and move your cursor onto a tile.

 

[myclan]

Yeah, it seems to be the most recent city built that has no, or not many, religions in it. It's controlled somewhere in the DLL and I'd need to build a custom pick religion popup to override it. Doable, but challenging.



Ah, actually you're right. The AI uses the same code as the human player. I thought I'd overridden that but looks like I chose not to since I couldn't get it working for human players as well. Probably best that way for now then.

In original bts, it is the city that has the least religion and the city that has the largest population will get a higher chance to become a holy city, have you change the mechanism?

 

[Xyth]

I'm having trouble uploading to Atomic Gamer. Tried twice and it aborts at around 60%. I may have to try again in the morning.

 

[Xyth]

Never mind, third time lucky.