Teeninvestor
Warlord
Just to be clear, generals should be definied in 2 categories
System generals- these generals didn't have to set their army, a functioning army was already available for them. They didn't invent the military system they operated in.
E.g. Caesar(Roman military system established for centuries)..
Founder Generals- These generals are generals who not only command well, but set up their own military system and it worked. For example: Georgi Zhukov(He redefined the Soviet Red army from a conscript army to a professional army on par with the Germans).
I'm viewing it in a strategic sense; like many generals are great tacticians, but if they were in Hannibal's situation(no supplies for 18 years) they would collapse.
1. Sun Tzu- Founder General- Wrote the Art of war. He managed to conquer a large swath of land in Feudal China, with poorly equipped troops. He probably conducted the FIRST organized military campaign in HISTORY. Invented most modern strategy, so he definitely deserves a spot here.
2. Alexander the Great- Although he was a system general, this guy created an entire Empire with only about 20,000-60,000 troops. Considering the logistics of the time, it was an amazing feat his army didn't collapse in Iraq. His army marks the first and only time before rougly 1700 that an European army was the best in the world. The distance his army advanced was not equalled until 3 centuries later, when a chinese army marched to the caspian in pursuit of the Huns(and that was with the logistics of China, who had the world's largest population and best agriculture.)
3. Li Jin- Founder General Tang dynasty general who reunified all of China AND who defeated an entire Turkic horde(about 200,000 horsemen) with just 3,000 Cavalry (with about 100,000 troops following him, but by the time they arrived he had already won). Probably best tactician.
4. Al-Khalid- The general who founded the Arabian Empire. Undefeated over a hundred battles. An excellent tactican, but I think Li Jin would still be able to defeat him.
5. Frederick the Great- Founder General A man who took a small power and made it defeat the three great land powers of Europe. This man knows his strategy.
6. Hannibal- Founder General Hannibal was able to supply an army for roughly 18 years without provisions, and although he failed he was able to crush every Roman army he faced except at Zama, and he invented most of modern western military tactics.
7. Ran Min- A founder general who basically saved Chinese during the uprising of the five barbarians. He founded his own army and was able to defeat four successive barbarian races, teaching them a lesson not to commit genocide against Chinese(Before him, the barbarian uprising in China had killed half of China's population and the number of barbarians in China acutally for the first time exceeded Chinese.) It was because of his example that Chinese were not all genocided(then we wouldn't have paper, the wheelbarrow, the compass, silk(didn't spread to Rome at this time), Dim Sum, gunpowder, muskets, printing press, paper money and a ton of stuff.) This guy isn't the best tactican, its just that he was able to revive Chinese military spirit after the barbarian invasions.
8. Belisarius- Founder General: He was able to conquer Italy and North Africa from the barbarians with little more than 20,000 troops and was never supported by his soverign. Coupled with the pathetic condition of the Byzantine army at this time, this deserves respect. He reorganized the byzantine army to make it more effective.
9. Liu Yu- System general: China's Belisarius, except he controlled the government(became emperor) and he was successful in holding the land he conquered(at least until his grandson messed things up). Reconquered Chinese heartland from the barbarians.
10. Wei Qin & Huo Qubing- System General: Drove the Huns from China to Rome, and ensured the power of Han China. Defeated a GIGANTIC nomadic horde(about 300,000 cavalrymen).
Honourable Mentions:
Napoleon- I wanted to include him but I'd think he wasn't a complete founder general, and his empire did collapse.
Liu Bochen- The man who Mao took the credit from, the general who ensured the success of the CPC in Chinese Civil war(not a good thing due to Mao's havoc, but with Deng's reforms China is recovering).
Caesar- Most of these lists would include him, but he was just a system general who conquered Gaul(Not the most well-accomplished feat in history).
Chen Qingzhi- This man conquered North China with 7,000 troops(though he then lost it in a few months).
Xie Xuan- A system general, this general defeated a barbarian army of 270,000 troops with only 80,000 troops, and prevented them from overruning China after Ran Min's death. His success is mainly due to heavy training of his troops though.
Georgi Zhukov- This general single-handedly won WWII. He transformed the Soviet Army into a professional army and defeated the Nazis. Soviet Union was the greatest contribution to Nazi defeat and Zhukov the greatest contribution to the Soviet Union.
Genghis Khan- He is not as good as you might think; he invaded China in a time of weakness and he crushed the Persian and Arab Empires. Much of his work though was done by his sons, and the military system was already established by him. Many a barbarian chieftain north of China would have succeeded in his shoes if given the chance.
What do you think? any suggestions?
System generals- these generals didn't have to set their army, a functioning army was already available for them. They didn't invent the military system they operated in.
E.g. Caesar(Roman military system established for centuries)..
Founder Generals- These generals are generals who not only command well, but set up their own military system and it worked. For example: Georgi Zhukov(He redefined the Soviet Red army from a conscript army to a professional army on par with the Germans).
I'm viewing it in a strategic sense; like many generals are great tacticians, but if they were in Hannibal's situation(no supplies for 18 years) they would collapse.
1. Sun Tzu- Founder General- Wrote the Art of war. He managed to conquer a large swath of land in Feudal China, with poorly equipped troops. He probably conducted the FIRST organized military campaign in HISTORY. Invented most modern strategy, so he definitely deserves a spot here.
2. Alexander the Great- Although he was a system general, this guy created an entire Empire with only about 20,000-60,000 troops. Considering the logistics of the time, it was an amazing feat his army didn't collapse in Iraq. His army marks the first and only time before rougly 1700 that an European army was the best in the world. The distance his army advanced was not equalled until 3 centuries later, when a chinese army marched to the caspian in pursuit of the Huns(and that was with the logistics of China, who had the world's largest population and best agriculture.)
3. Li Jin- Founder General Tang dynasty general who reunified all of China AND who defeated an entire Turkic horde(about 200,000 horsemen) with just 3,000 Cavalry (with about 100,000 troops following him, but by the time they arrived he had already won). Probably best tactician.
4. Al-Khalid- The general who founded the Arabian Empire. Undefeated over a hundred battles. An excellent tactican, but I think Li Jin would still be able to defeat him.
5. Frederick the Great- Founder General A man who took a small power and made it defeat the three great land powers of Europe. This man knows his strategy.
6. Hannibal- Founder General Hannibal was able to supply an army for roughly 18 years without provisions, and although he failed he was able to crush every Roman army he faced except at Zama, and he invented most of modern western military tactics.
7. Ran Min- A founder general who basically saved Chinese during the uprising of the five barbarians. He founded his own army and was able to defeat four successive barbarian races, teaching them a lesson not to commit genocide against Chinese(Before him, the barbarian uprising in China had killed half of China's population and the number of barbarians in China acutally for the first time exceeded Chinese.) It was because of his example that Chinese were not all genocided(then we wouldn't have paper, the wheelbarrow, the compass, silk(didn't spread to Rome at this time), Dim Sum, gunpowder, muskets, printing press, paper money and a ton of stuff.) This guy isn't the best tactican, its just that he was able to revive Chinese military spirit after the barbarian invasions.
8. Belisarius- Founder General: He was able to conquer Italy and North Africa from the barbarians with little more than 20,000 troops and was never supported by his soverign. Coupled with the pathetic condition of the Byzantine army at this time, this deserves respect. He reorganized the byzantine army to make it more effective.
9. Liu Yu- System general: China's Belisarius, except he controlled the government(became emperor) and he was successful in holding the land he conquered(at least until his grandson messed things up). Reconquered Chinese heartland from the barbarians.
10. Wei Qin & Huo Qubing- System General: Drove the Huns from China to Rome, and ensured the power of Han China. Defeated a GIGANTIC nomadic horde(about 300,000 cavalrymen).
Honourable Mentions:
Napoleon- I wanted to include him but I'd think he wasn't a complete founder general, and his empire did collapse.
Liu Bochen- The man who Mao took the credit from, the general who ensured the success of the CPC in Chinese Civil war(not a good thing due to Mao's havoc, but with Deng's reforms China is recovering).
Caesar- Most of these lists would include him, but he was just a system general who conquered Gaul(Not the most well-accomplished feat in history).
Chen Qingzhi- This man conquered North China with 7,000 troops(though he then lost it in a few months).
Xie Xuan- A system general, this general defeated a barbarian army of 270,000 troops with only 80,000 troops, and prevented them from overruning China after Ran Min's death. His success is mainly due to heavy training of his troops though.
Georgi Zhukov- This general single-handedly won WWII. He transformed the Soviet Army into a professional army and defeated the Nazis. Soviet Union was the greatest contribution to Nazi defeat and Zhukov the greatest contribution to the Soviet Union.
Genghis Khan- He is not as good as you might think; he invaded China in a time of weakness and he crushed the Persian and Arab Empires. Much of his work though was done by his sons, and the military system was already established by him. Many a barbarian chieftain north of China would have succeeded in his shoes if given the chance.
What do you think? any suggestions?
