15,000 year old city in Western Sahara?

Report from Reuters-

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=6021742

RABAT (Reuters) - The remains of a prehistoric town believed to date back 15,000 years and belong to an ancient Berber civilization have been discovered in Western Sahara, Moroccan state media said on Thursday.
A team of Moroccan scientists stumbled across the sand-covered ruins of the town Arghilas deep in the desert of the Morocco-administered territory.

The remains of a place of worship, houses and a necropolis, as well as columns and rock engravings depicting animals, were found at the site near the town of Aousserd in northeastern Western Sahara.

The isolated area is known to be rich in prehistoric rock engravings but experts said the discovery could be significant if proven that the ruins were of Berber origin as this civilization is believed to date back only some 9,000 years.

"It appears that scientists have come up with the 15,000-years estimate judging by the style of the engravings and the theme of the drawings," Mustapha Ouachi, a Rabat-based Berber historian, told Reuters.

Berbers are the original inhabitants of North Africa before Arabs came to spread Islam in the seventh century.

The population of Western Sahara, seized by Morocco in 1975 when former colonial power Spain pulled out, are mostly of Berber and Arab descent.
 
I thought the Berbers never went back far beyond post-Roman times. 9000 years old? 15000 years old? :eek:
 
Wow, this must be record! I thought the eldest town (in Turkey, I don´t know the name) is 10.000 years old... Also a surprise is the location. It was also thought that the origin of civilization is the area of today Turkey- Iraq.

Adler
 
Wow. It would actually make sense considering that until 3000 b.c. the Sahara was a very green and lush place. But still, wow. If this is 15,000 years old imagine how old other undiscovered cities near major river valleys are.
 
awesome! I cant wait to see pics of it :D
 
Interesting. I think a Clive Cussler book had a similar story.
 
this is really interesting... i think one of the oldest cities to date is Catal Huyuk from Turkey... i don't know what the dates on it are offhand but it comes nowhere near this....
 
It is certainly older than catal huyuk :) but I also don't know the exact date. But consider this 15'000 year old is just an estimate ... :)

I don't trust this thing at the moment, seems a bit speculative for me (what the morroccans have done according to the article). I'll wait and see, before I say more on that... :)

But that really would be awesome

mfG mitsho
 
The article places it close to the coast of Western Sahara in a pretty isolated area. Not a likely area for a city to develop at such an early date. I suspect that future dating will place the city much later. I guess we'll have to wait and see tho'.
 
silly bird jaguar; its not to desolate for the Atlanteans! ;)

sorry, had to say it, one must admit, ancient city on the atlantic coast is going to fuel a bunch of new-age Atlantio-Martian consperacy theories ;)
 
Xen said:
silly bird jaguar; its not to desolate for the Atlanteans! ;)

Yes, its just a short jump from Atlantis to the coast; how could I have forgotten!!
 
Birdjaguar said:
The article places it close to the coast of Western Sahara in a pretty isolated area. Not a likely area for a city to develop at such an early date. I suspect that future dating will place the city much later. I guess we'll have to wait and see tho'.

The Western Sahara desert only became a desert around 3000 b.c.e.
 
Specifically, the western Sahara I noted, is the political designation for the area taken over by Morrocco when Spain abandoned it, and not the entire western desert area.

Here is an article on the wetter sahara that may be of interest. It talks about the wet phase lasting from 12,000 to 7,000 BCE. If so then a 15,000 year old city would have had to develop prior to the wet phase and then collapsed just as it was getting more habitable. Seems out of sequence.

If this city is that old then why didn't the concept spread all across africa during the 5,000 year wet phase that followed? Once the city threshold was crossed in the middle east, civilization never looked back and cities kept spreading all across the region. A single isolated city is an unlikely event. Will more be found?

At present archaeology hasn't found evidence of the wild crops and beasts suitable for domestication that are needed for urbanization. Perhaps it had an aquatic based economy, since the ruins are near the coast.

An 15,000 year old city would be interesting, but I think alot more research needs to be done to make a real case for the first urbanization to have happened on the west coast of the sahara.


Institution: California State University
Advisor: Alan Almquist
Degree: M.A.

Abstract: For decades, archeologists have been aware of evidence
suggesting that the Sahara Desert was much wetter and greener
thousands of years ago. It is now possible to characterize these
locations, in terms of both aquatic and terrestrial biota, but by also
providing some data on the human inhabitants of these ecotomes. This
thesis focused primarily on the features of human settlement in the
central Sahara, looking at lifestyles of the people and examining
factors favoring a wetlands economy. Finally, as the once-favorable
conditions began disappearing, analysis of the destiny of these
Saharan peoples is made.

The Holocene followed the last glacial age, about 12,000 BC. The
temperatures in the Sahara became appreciably warmer and the climate
demonstrated a lower evapotranspiration rate. The Intertropical
Convergence Zone (ITCZ), the line along which north and south weather
fronts converge, seems to have moved several hundred miles to the
north. Since, in general, African rainfall north of the equator
increases as one heads south, the shift of the ICTZ resulted in
Saharan and sahelian zones receiving increased rainfall.

In addition to more temperate plant and animal species moving into the
Sahara, the increased moisture resulted in lakes and rivers filling
far beyond their prior capacity. In some cases, rivers breached their
normal watershed, connecting with other systems. This allowed a
broader distribution of aquatic species. In some areas, there were
widespread wetlands. The earliest such sites, when associated with
human habitation, date from ~7000 BC (with harpoons) and 6000 BC
(wavy-line pottery). Because they used pottery, these cultures were
originally considered some kind of Aquatic Neolithic.

JEG Sutton, in a 1974 article, called them the "Aquatic Civilization
of Middle Africa". Although they did little stonework, he saw their
bone work as very sophisticated. He suspected that much of their
material culture, made of perishable materials, would not have
survived. He thought them "victims" of stone-oriented scholars. Based
on geographic distribution. he thought that the ancestors of Saharan,
Songhai and Chari-Nile-speakers were these same "Middle Africans".

After the initial Holocene (postglacial) wet phase (12,000-7000 BC),
conditions became drier for 500-1000 years. This was fol- lowed by a
lesser wet phase of 2000 years. From then until 2500 BC, there was a
gradual increase in dryness. After that time, weather conditions have
been largely unchanged until the present. How did the human economies
change with the climate?

The early harpoon-fishers availed themselves of large riverine and
lake species, such as the Nile perch (known to exceed six feet).
Whether they were fully-settled or did some amount of yearly travel
isn't known. Undoubtedly, as water-tables dropped, the people needed
to augment their aquatic diet with other foods. Initially, these would
be available plant and animal foods which could be gathered.

Christopher Ehret's work touched on Sutton's language hypothesis--that
these early fishers were NiloSaharan speakers. In the process of
generating protolanguages for these speakers, he created an initial
vocabulary for both NiloSaharan, proto-Saharan and proto-Sahelian. The
words that he developed do not include fish or fishing terms (line,
net, hook, harpoon). This early vocabulary does have herding terms and
words for 'goat', 'young goat', 'cow', 'corral' and such. No other
writers dealt with this topic.

The Central Sahara is punctuated by large stone
outcrops--massifs--that create their own microclimate. In some cases,
they represent a refuge for rare species, extinct everywhere else.
Work by Henri Lhote in the 1950's documented the varied and colorful
rockpaintings found in the massifs. Grouped into 23 styles, they are
grouped as 1. Bubalus (extinct buffalo) hunters, early Neo- lithic; 2.
'Bovidian' pastoralists (considered Neolithic); 3. Equine phase,
involving pastoralists with chariots and cavalry; 4. Phase of the
camel, 1 AD. These groupings are disputed, but the images show us a
wild-animal phase, then so-called 'Roundhead' figures. These appear to
be multi-ethnic, including a 'Negroid' population.

The pastoralist period involved humpless cattle with large curved
horns, similar to the ancient Egyptian Longhorn. Features of the
people's life resemble activities of the Peul/Fulani, a contemporary
West African pastoral group. Some of the boat images re- semble those
on Egyptian monuments, raising yet other possibilities. Pastoralism
appeared about the time that weather condi- tions became considerably
drier (7000 BC), suggesting that it was a selected response to
changing conditions.

The equine phase and its suspected timing may represent the arrival of
the "Peoples of the Sea", groups that left Crete about 1500 BC (around
the time of the Trojan War) and migrated northeast, east and
southeast. The Biblical Philistines are one such group. Cretans
arrived in NE Africa about 1200 BC, joining with the Libyans and
attacking Egypt. Similar groups may have moved in from the coast and
entered the central Sahara via the caravan trails. If so, this
movement is more a political one than a response to climate change in
the central Sahara, although its outcome would affect the local
population.

Although the rock art isn't datable, it nevertheless shows us several
different worlds of the central Sahara. The earliest involves Africa's
megafauna (lions, elephants, etc) and Negroid peoples. Another one
shows herding people with cattle. Some features of these images recall
West Africa, others, Egypt. The herders look more like Somali people,
with narrow noses, thin lips, straight hair. Probable intruders with
horses and chariots are seen and, finally, the camel makes its
appearance. Are the earlier people migrants from North Africa, from
Egypt or from elsewhere?

Dhar Tichitt in southern Mauritania has been instructive as showing
the cultural response to a drier climate. Digging revealed eight
phases, from hunting megafauna (2000 BC), to limited hunting,
gathering and herding (1500-1100). Subsequent phases included
significant milling. The involved plant went from cramcram, a spiny
famine food, to millet and sorghum. Identification of the species
showed that the people had switched from gathering wild grasses to
planting them, in about 100 years. Such speed is unheard of under
normal circumstances, and suggests that the people were somehow
"presensitized" to cultivation, perhaps via a smaller outgroup that
grew up with farming and then migrated here. Both herding and planting
were presumably responses to unfavorable climate. The site was
abandoned after horses and metal weapons arrived, possibly with the
charioteers described above.

The future of the central Saharans was not always the same as at Dhar
Tichitt. Evidence suggests that the people migrated, some southwest,
some southeast, some perhaps north, following the drying riverbeds as
they sought sites where they could sus- tain themselves. Since West
Africa had not yet been favorable to settlement, due to its dense
forests, the central Saharans may represent some of the early
ancestors of some of these peoples.
 
they also foud some stone pyramids in southern japan hat date to 10,000 bc
 
well, the article said the date was based on art work, which means no firm dateing, from say carbon dateing of artifacts and what not has given a more certian date; IMO, thsi means that it could be a bit younger, mabey even signifcatnlly so; 10,000 years back dosent seem all that outrageuos if you ask me; though no matter what, this coudl all shed some light on where such civlizations out of place , smack dab int he middle of the Indo-european sea of culture; entities liek the basques, and Etruscans have yet to be explained; hopefully, these guys will offer insight to that (it would also, perhaps fit, mabey as a broad throught. that the Basques and ETruscans were drivied from a berber population, and that perhaps migrated from africa once the climate change began
 
bigmeat said:
they also foud some stone pyramids in southern japan hat date to 10,000 bc

more like supposedlly date back to 10,000 BC, IMO
 
Stone pyramides in Japan? Can someone give a link for that?
 
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