.

[El Loco Mono]

Well, i really love those animosity ideas, they are all exactly whats in the orcs armybook, but i think that there should also be a chance to get a good result from animosity, say the affected unit get a temporary 'enraged' promotion which lasts untill he next attacks. this gives that unit some % of extra strength, or a blitz like ability. this promotion would mean that the animosity trait for orcs wont deter people from playing them, becaue thier units wont ALWAYS be arguing amongst them.

Which brings me to another point: when do orcs get affected by animosity? is it only during peace time? only during war? or all the time? i wold way only during peace, as it would make them more war like.

Thanks for that feedback PL.

Curious though, if we only trigger animosity during peace time, whats the use of a Positive Bonus like +% str or blitz? You can't use it against anyone, also we couldn't use the Show'em, as there would be no one to attack. What do people think? limit to peace time or all time animosity checks?

Another easy effect is to code is to disband the unit from animosity as well (fit with - only in peace time idea), but since it wasn't in the list i haven't done it. If we do add a promotion during animosity, can I request a uniuqe promotion? It will be easier to remove on the next turns animosity check if ther is a set of ANIMOSITY_TYPE promotions I can load in a check list

EDIT: Also, do we want a "Quell Animosity" unit ability / promotion ability. For example, on promotion of combat 3, unit is now immune to Animosity or because unit is in adjacent square unit is immune to animosity

 

[Duke van Frost]

My opinon is that animosity should be active all the time (during peace and war).

Orcs got the Whaagh!, which makes their units even stronger, to compensate for animosity.

A promotion like "Highly Disciplined" would be a good idea, that negates effects of animosity, but that should be an extra promotion and only available after the unit has some other promotions already and is at a very high level.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

very good points E.L.M. i didnt think about not being able to use the promotion or 'Show'em' during peace, and i forgot about the Whaaagh!, so therefore i change my vote from 'peace only' to 'constant animosity'.

I like the idea of orcs being able to get a 'highly Disciplined' promotion (though i think a more orcy name would be better) to make them immune to animosity. perhaps make combat 3 and Whaaagh! 1 prerequisits. also make some unique units start with this promotion such as the Black orcs.
perhaps also give the orcs a special building which reduces animosity in units fortified in cities, call it the Dueling Arena. and it could also decrease peace wearyness somewhat.

 

[Duke van Frost]

The idea about the building for orcs is a realy good one! I like it very much.

could be the "'eadbutt Gathering" or something like this, if you want to go for orcy names

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Yay! now its my turn for a good idea!
howabout 'eadsmashin' pit' or 'eadbutt arena' or 'eadbutt gallery'?

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Ok guys please switch the debate on animosity here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=182191

This thread gets to big.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

@Olleus, Gerikes or E.L.M.
Can one of you please integrate the Lopez updated version of the Water Animals mod?
The version gives control about how much Kraken get spawned so we can finally have early seafaring and Kraken the same time.

And please also someone integrate the camerazoom from Rogerbacons combined Flying mod and the Firststrikefix from Lunar Moongoose!!!

This is all needed asap. Rest can wait until after release.

 

[El Loco Mono]

I know we don't want this thread to grow too much, but while I was doing the animosity I was thinking about the idea of Routeing (sp?). My idea was, if a unit is killed in an adjacent tile, then on the unit killed trigger, do the "panic" role for each of the surrounding units based on a new leadership unit tag of the highest unit on that plot, and try to move away from the nearest enemy (this may put them closer to another enemy but hard luck). Routeing during a fight, I'm not too sure of yet. I think I need to understand updatecombat() a little more first. Also, we might need to give them a promotion "Panic" that effects them until the end of the next turn - no moves, or lower strength, etc. We could also us the GreatGeneral mod to give leadership bonus promotions instead of the first strike and strength promotions it gives now. Or maybe both. Triggering panic from panic might be a bit more interesting. Just throwing ideas really.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Sounds nice to me I'm all for it. However this probably is better off in the panicthread

 

[Duke van Frost]

I keep on wondering why I do not get Gold when I succesfully defend against animals. It seems like one only gets the money if he succesfully attacks.

Seems not too logical to me, you can also get the fur from the animal if you got attacked - I think we should change that.

 

[El Loco Mono]

I keep on wondering why I do not get Gold when I succesfully defend against animals. It seems like one only gets the money if he succesfully attacks.

Seems not too logical to me, you can also get the fur from the animal if you got attacked - I think we should change that.

Yeah, i fixed that in the latest code upload. The money was actually going to the Barbs for sacrificing the animal - whoops

 

[Ploeperpengel]

@Olleus, Gerikes or E.L.M.
Can one of you please integrate the Lopez updated version of the Water Animals mod?
The version gives control about how much Kraken get spawned so we can finally have early seafaring and Kraken the same time.

And please also someone integrate the camerazoom from Rogerbacons combined Flying mod and the Firststrikefix from Lunar Moongoose!!!

This is all needed asap. Rest can wait until after release.

Bump

 

[Gerikes]

Bump

I might have some time tomorrow to do those.

Also, I was wondering what your thoughts are on the conversion to Warlords. I know you said that it was probably in the mod's best interest as it seems to be able to support higher number of units better, but just realize that this means that the SDK will need have all the changed code brought over to the Warlords SDK. I'm not sure exactly what that entails, not having Warlords, but I think it would be a better idea to do it earlier rather than later if that is a definite plan.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Thx Gerikes.

Conversion to Warlords is top priority indeed. I want to go for that asap as well. But we will definitly have to wait until all you pythonwizards have it

 

[Gerikes]

Thx Gerikes.

Conversion to Warlords is top priority indeed. I want to go for that asap as well. But we will definitly have to wait until all you pythonwizards have it

Here's my problem. I don't see the point of putting any more code that modifies the game into the SDK (such as these fixes) if we're going to have to do them all over again. Things like the SF, animosity and the spell system are fine to work out, because the spell system is all python or seperate functions (it'll just be a matter of finding the right place in the new system for the calls to those new functions), and ELM has done a great job making it all seperate python as well, which will help greatly when the conversion takes place. But as for taking lines of code from here and there and putting them in, then testing to make sure it all works, it's all going to have to be done all over again anyway. So long as they're are not show-stoppers, I don't see the reason to put them in now.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Here's my problem. I don't see the point of putting any more code that modifies the game into the SDK (such as these fixes) if we're going to have to do them all over again. Things like the SF, animosity and the spell system are fine to work out, because the spell system is all python or seperate functions (it'll just be a matter of finding the right place in the new system for the calls to those new functions), and ELM has done a great job making it all seperate python as well, which will help greatly when the conversion takes place. But as for taking lines of code from here and there and putting them in, then testing to make sure it all works, it's all going to have to be done all over again anyway. So long as they're are not show-stoppers, I don't see the reason to put them in now.

Ah ok makes sense I'm not aware how much code is involved for those. Thought them to be just a couple of lines copypaste work and recombiling.
If's more complicated ok agreed let's put it into the warlordsversion then

 

[Gerikes]

Ah ok makes sense I'm not aware how much code is involved for those. Thought them to be just a couple of lines copypaste work and recombiling.
If's more complicated ok agreed let's put it into the warlordsversion then

Well, I'm sure it is. The problem is that that one line is somewhere within a bunch of lines of code of the mod, and it's not the matter of putting the code in and recompiling as much as

A.) Finding what the code actually is that needs to be changed,
B.) Testing and making sure it works.

That, along with the fact that it's one more thing that everyone else who is working on the code needs to remember to put into their revision next time they post a reply to the DLL thread (of course, that could be solved by using some sort of code-managemnt system like CVS or SVN).

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Ok I leave this to you programmers to decide if it's worth the effort or not. I don't really mind if we get it into vanilla first or not. Since I'm not planning to release WH seperately for vanilla AND Warlords the only thing that really matters for me is that we get those features into the Warlords version
I will probably start working on the conversion as soon I'm back home(-> next wednesday)

 

[Gerikes]

Ok I leave this to you programmers to decide if it's worth the effort or not. I don't really mind if we get it into vanilla first or not. Since I'm not planning to release WH seperately for vanilla AND Warlords the only thing that really matters for me is that we get those features into the Warlords version
I will probably start working on the conversion as soon I'm back home(-> next wednesday)

Which reminds me... aren't you on vacation! Take a break!

As for the rest, I guess that would be Lord Olleus' call.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Which reminds me... aren't you on vacation! Take a break!

As for the rest, I guess that would be Lord Olleus' call.

Heh, can't stop. I'm currently using the internet of a friend I'm visiting which gives me the opportunity to be here a couple of hours.
I think we should switch to Warlords asap. Since it's not only python and SDK that will produce double work otherwise but also xml(the unitinfos alone will be a real pain already, making any other files bigger for the vanilla mod will only increase the suffering imo).
Let's use the current release to hunt the remaining bugs but switch to warlords for all improvements we undertake. I notice there are still some ctds reported obviously not fixed yet. Let's concentrate on debugging those and afterwards start new workthreads for Warlords.

@Olleus
Especially this pythonthread is getting way too long imo the Warlordsconversion would be a good reason to start a new one really only for discussing problems with the code this time and switching all discussion for special requests to special threads like Animosity and Magic. Don't you agree?