[Vote] (2-38) Increase Skirmisher RCS By 1

[Stalker0]

• Camel Archer - This UU was already irrelevant to the civ's kit before we changed anything

I actually think the new model is a buff to the camel archer. The splash damage ignores the lower damage of the camel anyway, and the extra speed makes it easier to get into those nooks where the splash damage is useful. This has never been a great UU, and frankly arabia doesn't need one (a weaker UU is part of the balance package to me), but I do think camels have a niche of being able to soften up the hordes that approach the Tall Arabia defense.

 

[ma_kuh]

That makes sense, and seeing it laid out like this definitely helps me to understand the picture better, I hope it helps others too. I'll note that some of those uniques abilities lean really hard into the pillage-everything support aspect of skirmishers, and not into the direct-confrontation aspect, which is definitely a perception thing. They don't feel like they contribute damage despite being your super cool unique, even though they've completely wrecked a city's economy, and the base skirmisher is already fighting the same problem by gifting its damage to nearby units.

 

[Rekk]

The most interesting unique part of Cossack doesn't even care about how much damage is dealt.

 

[alchx]

Also, making skirmisher doctrine a promo line means you can give it to pathfinders, which I think is part of making pathfinders have a relevant combat tool, beyond "tanking" (why should they be good at this?), pillaging, or gaining sight... all things that are in the skirmisher's list of roles as well.

I like the idea of promoting pathfinders. Also this promo is good for all recon units. It will make sense to throw paratroopers not only in order to plunder a few tiles. Suggest it

But 20% will be a lot for them, otherwise at the start it will be more efficient to build 4 pathfinders and trample all enemies.

 

[ma_kuh]

I like the idea of promoting pathfinders. Also this promo is good for all recon units. It will make sense to throw paratroopers not only in order to plunder a few tiles. Suggest it

But 20% will be a lot for them, otherwise at the start it will be more efficient to build 4 pathfinders and trample all enemies.

There's already an active proposal awaiting implementation for the recon promo lines. I want to see how that shakes up recon units first before making more edits.

Also, I haven't thought about where on those lines you might add Skirmisher Doctrine as a leaf promotion, if it wasn't part of a stem line.

 

[CrazyG]

Okay I've tried them a little more and I might be coming around. Knights with a lot of flanks are pretty good.

I still think the various UUs stink though. The strength of these units is just the flanking thing, which they all do equally. The main perk of a heavy skirm vs a regular one is that it takes less damage. The attacks the have themselves are mostly just for farming XP.

 

[rusbeh]

I think the new skirmisher line is borderline OP except for the skirmisher which has trash RCS. Theres so many horses you can basically spam them so they dont feel unique. They can 1v1 melee units and win as they deal a lot of damage and have a crazy 5 speed. They are tanky especially against ranged attacks so they never really die. Last but not least they boost melee units a lot.

I would nerf their tankyness honestly but thats just me. Reducing horses would be ideal

 

[ma_kuh]

I like a dynamic where horse archers are counter by foot archers, but I don't think that idea has tracked with the community here.

Anyway, I'd vote for a slight nerf to the free ranged defense they get (I think it's +50% atm), especially if we're boosting the base RCS at the same time. Something a little more modest, +33% perhaps. It would keep the skirmisher's anti-ranged RCS at 10.5ish. Perhaps something to consider as an amendment during ratification of this change, once we get a chance to play with it.

 

[pineappledan]

Anyway, I'd vote for a slight nerf to the free ranged defense they get (I think it's +50% atm), especially if we're boosting the base RCS at the same time. Something a little more modest, +33% perhaps.

Have you tried hitting the skirmishers with an archer? They already are getting walloped. Before I implemented the range defense skirmishers were getting 1-shotted by highly promoted CBows

 

[ma_kuh]

Honestly, I think in the last war I waged the AI didn't field skirmishers until pumping out a handful of heavy skirmishers as they got the tech, and I was still trying to catch up so I may be biased, feeling like my comp bows weren't really clearing them. I'll reserve judgment on whether the reducing in defensive RCS should be added until playing more games.

 

[rusbeh]

For such a mobile unit their CS could be a little weaker.

 

[N.Core]

Just to make sure this proposal can be voted, I sponsor this then

 

[Recursive]

Proposal sponsored by N.Core.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.