2000 gold and Malinese 1stUHV not triggered (v. 1.61, 600AD)

[Red Threat]

Hi all,

as the title says, I'm stuck in my Malinese game - I know that the first UHV is the most troublesome (except maybe the first one of Ethiopia) and this is so in particular in the 600AD start; but I can't believe that some other civ has more than 2000 gold in 1300AD with a progression of ca. +80 per turn.

Is there something wrong with me, or what?! What shall I do to get the job done?! Please note that I'm playing with an old version, 1.61, that turns out to be pretty stable for me (and that I prefer under some aspects - not all - to the eventual ones).

Thanks in advance,

Paolo

 

[Jusos2108]

You usually need more than 2500 gold to get the 1st UHV. Easiest way to get this is to spawn a Great Merchant and sent it to Europe. The timetable is really tight, though. EDIT: Check this post for tips.

 

[Red Threat]

Thank you! i'll try this out, I didn't think about the Great Merchant. With that, I should be able to get 3000 gold!!! If that would not be enough, I would really become desperate.

Paolo

 

[nody]

You usually need more than 2500 gold to get the 1st UHV. Easiest way to get this is to spawn a Great Merchant and sent it to Europe. The timetable is really tight, though. EDIT: Check this post for tips.

Sending a Great Merchant to Arabia should be easier and with the same result...

If you start with a flipped Camel Archer or Impi, you could use them to defend your merchant on his journey east.

 

[Jusos2108]

Sending a Great Merchant to Arabia should be easier and with the same result...

If you start with a flipped Camel Archer or Impi, you could use them to defend your merchant on his journey east.

Except the Great Merchant doesn't have time to travel through the Saharan desert and Amsterdam yields more gold.

 

[nody]

Except the Great Merchant doesn't have time to travel through the Saharan desert and Amsterdam yields more gold.

I forgot about the desert movement penalty, but isn't it too hard to get open borders with Spain and France? Assuming you use a galley to get to Amsterdam.

I guess you could unload the merchant at the southwest Iberian coast (if not already Spanish) and go over land, but still...

 

[Jusos2108]

It isn't, as soon as you meet one of them, give them 20g, they'll love you for short while and also OB with you. As Mali you'll also trade techs with them and these trades are unbalanced in their favor, so you don't even have to give them cash.

 

[nody]

Okay, you're right.

Divine Right, the tech the early Europeans don't get for free. Without it, Mali would be doomed.

On the other way around, if I want Divine Right as Spain I always have to give them Machinery AND Feudalism.

 

[fdgsgds]

I wish Mali's UHVs weren't so gold-related. I mean, they just run the sliders at 0% after sailing. How boring.

Usually I build Casablanca to launch great merchants from. Settle them in London, since it's on an island = +Money

 

[Red Threat]

I tried again today; it took me long since my graduate classes have started again and I also had to relocate to a new home in the Bay Area.

Unfortunately, with ca. 3000g (ca. +70 per turn) I cannot get the first condition triggered. That is ridiculous, as in a couple of turns I would reach the second goal. Notice that I am always playing from the same start (I find it convenient for a series of reasons, though there are no barbarian units flipped to me). Opening the World Builder, I added additional Great Merchants and I found that I needed more than 4500g for the first condition in my saved game. Makes no sense.

Any advice on how to get on?! Should I tried different starts?

Paolo

 

[Power_of_Beer]

You can check the civ that has more money than you in the worldbuilder, just press F2 there and somewhere in the upper corners you can select the different leaders (If you don't count that as cheating). Usually its France with about 3500-5000 gold, so try to bribe them out of caste system or make Spain/Germany declare war (not easy).
Also, whats your city placement?

 

[alpaca]

I guess it's mostly a question of luck. I was able to get the first condition with just 1350 gold. Barbarians are annoying, though. They almost wrecked me after I was hit by a severe plague.

 

[Leoreth]

By the way, it's really worth it to update to the most recent patch if you find your situation unfair. France was the main reason for Mali's problems in previous versions, but Rhye hindered them from hoarding that much gold at one point, and everything has become considerably easier.

 

[Red Threat]

How can I attach images to show you my city placement?! I want to share a screenshot, but both the 'Attachments' icon and the 'Manage Attachments' don't work to me. Anyway, I found Timbuktu on the spot, and two cities in North African coast. Borrowing names from the Arabian city map, I found Al-Rabat on the northernmost desert tile in Morocco, and Wahran on the north-western hill in Algeria, just immediately west of the wheat.

Using WB as you suggested, I find that France has ca. 4200 gold in year 1290AD, that's impossible to beat. In the spawn year, in my Malinese start I'm playing with, France has already 1007 gold, I guess that they hoard gold by spawing Great Merchants continuously; I tried different starts and France always has about the same money, so I guess that they run CS and do not make use of specialist other than merchants, otherwise they would get other Great People by mistake (which would be definitely a blessing, their goald accumulation would slow down, but still the UHV would depend a lot on luck). Anyway, this line of reasoning might be wrong; e.g. AI might be cheating.

Therefore, to prevent them from accumulating so much money, I can either: 1) forcing them out of Caste System, which seems to be very hard - asking it is always 'against all they stand for' in diplomacy screen, tried at different autosaves - or 2) getting them to declare war to somebody; e.g. Spain or Netherlands or Germany. This seems to be easier, but will that induce French AI to dramatically change their 'economic policies', at least for the wartime?! I don't see why it should be... admittedly I have little understanding of how the AI works, especially in terms of city/empire management.

Last alternative is to start with France and eventually switch to Mali after having made it so that they cannot reach 3000 gold by year 1300. But I feel like that's cheating, and even though the 1st Malinese UHV is certainly not fair, I want to keep this option as my last resort alternative.

Thank you!!!

Paolo

 

[Red Threat]

Ah, and for a series of reasons, I don't want / I cannot upgrade my current version of RFC. I just want to understand whether the Malinese UHV in version 1.61, 600AD is absolutely impossible, or just very very difficult/rare. I really want to make it, I'm making all the UHVs in order, I've collected a nice sequence of victory replays and final scores, and now I'm stuck on Mali!!! And I'm looking forward to play Portugal and Incans.

Paolo

 

[TDK]

It´s possible to have 4200 gold with Mali in 1300AD - if that's not enough can't win anyway on your current patch and you should upgrade your game.

 

[Alexius08]

Why not remove CoL from France's starting techs? It unlocks CS.

 

[Leoreth]

If you can't download the patch for whatever reasons but still want to apply Rhye's "fix" (it's more like a hardcoded cheat against France, but whatever), open the Assets\Python\ folder and search for "iPlayer == iMali" in Victory.py. Then you have to add the following lines (marked in red), so that it looks like the following:

                elif (iPlayer == iMali):
                        if (pMali.isAlive()):

                                [COLOR="Red"]if (iGameTurn == getTurnForYear(1300)-10): #temporary fix, they use too many specialist and make Mali UHV very hard
                                        if (not pFrance.isHuman()):
                                                if (pFrance.getGold() > utils.getTurns(2000)):
                                                        pFrance.setGold(pFrance.getGold()*50/100)
                                                elif (pFrance.getGold() > utils.getTurns(1000)):
                                                        pFrance.setGold(pFrance.getGold()*70/100)[/COLOR]
                                                        

                                if (iGameTurn == getTurnForYear(1300)):
                                        iGold = pMali.getGold()
                                        for iCiv in range(iNumPlayers):
                                                if (iCiv != iMali and gc.getPlayer(iCiv).isAlive()):
                                                        if (gc.getPlayer(iCiv).getGold() > iGold):
                                                               self.setGoal(iMali, 0, 0)
                                                               return
                                        self.setGoal(iMali, 0, 1)
                                 
                                if (iGameTurn == getTurnForYear(1500)):
                                        if (pMali.getGold() >= utils.getTurns(4000)):
                                                self.setGoal(iMali, 1, 1)
                                        else:
                                                self.setGoal(iMali, 1, 0)
                                                
                                if (iGameTurn == getTurnForYear(1700)):
                                        if (pMali.getGold() >= utils.getTurns(16000)):
                                                self.setGoal(iMali, 2, 1)
                                        else:
                                                self.setGoal(iMali, 2, 0)

 

[guspasho]

Take a look at this thread, it might help you: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=332635

I had the same problem you are having. Basically, winning Mali's UHV requires that you restart the game multiple times. I found a start that had several barbarian units in my start area when I spawned and they were essential to winning. I also somehow got very lucky in that I only needed 2300 gold in 1300AD, though I was very close to completing a great merchant's trade mission and scoring another 1500 gold. Without those two things that were out of my control beyond restarting the game multiple times, it would have been impossible to win. And I fine-tuned everything that was going on in my empire so precisely that I'm pretty sure I was playing optimally.

EDIT: Oh yeah and the goody hut popped a settler. Basically, there is no margin of error and you are lucky if the UHV is even possible, even on Viceroy. Basically, Mali is broken.

 

[guspasho]

Why not remove CoL from France's starting techs? It unlocks CS.

Because you need France to trade it to you. I think they are the only ones who will.