2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
This is from today:
With MZ:
With MZ:
Spoiler :
2metraninja: hey MZ
MZprox: hi
2metraninja: hows things?
MZprox: nothing extra
2metraninja: it was interesting for me to read that you said we are not technically allies, yes, it was some form of joke, but it holds much truth most probably
Изпратено в 12:53, сряда
MZprox: For me alliance is a very long lasting (probably till the end) thing. It's not an alliance if it made for 20 turns or against a common enemy. it's only like a cooperation
2metraninja: I see, so it is only the use of terms that differ
because for me, allies can be temporary allies
like: we are allies until our common biggest threat is gone, in this case RB
MZprox: obviously when we have nap and fighting against a common foe you can say we are allies..
2metraninja: or: "we are allies until all other teams are gone"
MZprox: but for me it means we are fighting for a bigger common goal, making even altruistic acts to help the other (not just small things like money loans)
2metraninja: brothers in arms or brothers in fate is quite different from "allies against someone". the first thing implies that we just share one and the same unfortunate fate, where the latter thing means we are dedicated and we coordinate efforts for clear goal
MZprox: allies lose and win together.. and at this moment I think every civ has its own agenda
2metraninja: hmm, you said it very well
allies win or lose together
and this is how I was hoping our relations are right now when it comes to RB
Изпратено в 12:59, сряда
MZprox: foremost I will ahve to watch our civ interest, and if I make a promise I will try my best to hold myself to it. that's why it is hard for me to make promises, because I don't want to make irresponsible ones
Изпратено в 13:02, сряда
MZprox: just to recap: I promised that I will not let Egypt kill an other easy target and watch idle, so no nap with RB and I will interven if they attack azteca around t170.
Изпратено в 13:04, сряда
2metraninja: nothing about if they attack us while we are fighting with French on the other side of the world?
Изпратено в 13:05, сряда
2metraninja: what would you do in such situation?
MZprox: in that case we would probably attack Egypt
Изпратено в 13:07, сряда
MZprox: we certainly wouldn't let them making an easy backstab, however I can not make such promise like: we declare war on egypt in a certain turn or a certain event (except the one I told before).
2metraninja: what you think, this one http://www.topmodel.bg/photos/view/106689#.Ucq9lNi1uNg or this one http://www.topmodel.bg/photos/view/114410#.Ucq9s9i1uNg ?
MZprox: because we can't tell how the situation would look like then
they are lovely, why?
Изпратено в 13:11, сряда
2metraninja: I am trying to find low-budget model for shooting one catalog
the girl will have to ride bicycle, but not exactly some sport bicycles, most will be some city bikes and will be shot on the sea coast
MZprox: if i had too choose maybe the second
2metraninja: yep, she is real beauty, just dont know how she will stay in front of camera...
anyway wanted to cheer up the talks a bit, as it starts to get quite grim
Изпратено в 13:15, сряда
2metraninja: so, from what you are telling me now, I do understand that you feel quite safe from RB attack and you go from this assumption, right?
Изпратено в 13:17, сряда
MZprox: we can say so
Изпратено в 13:18, сряда
2metraninja: now I start to feel stupid, because what we got from ot4e was that everyone of us will have army and threaten RB and this way we all 3 secure our safety, where from what you say it turns out that it is not the case
Изпратено в 13:20, сряда
MZprox: you are not really in a situation where you need to be secured
2metraninja: lol, you think so?
why you think so?
you are confident we can easily defeat civ number 1 and civ number 2 at the same time?
thanks for the high opinion you have on me
I just wish I had the same confidence
MZprox: as I said it's all about promises while the future can not be foreseen
if you fight with te maya and rb moves their forces against you then we will attack them because obviously it's not in our interest to let the top2 kill you
2metraninja: is there a variant in the future
that
MZprox: a small chance that you make peace with maya, Egypt goes bankrupt and you take the position of No. ' badass...
no 1*
2metraninja: by the very same time you say: "leading from the presumption we do whatever is best for our own civ, right now it is best for us to tech infantries and artillery while you annihilate yourself with RB and French and then come and take all their land for our own nation"?
after we are dead, so you dont have to keep our NAP?
Изпратено в 13:29, сряда
MZprox: well.. it is an option.. unfortunately if we stay small we will probably won't have a chance whoever rsises victorious from your conflict
Изпратено в 13:31, сряда
2metraninja: why you keep talking about small, you are not much smaller than us
Изпратено в 13:32, сряда
MZprox: we are almost the smallest civ
Изпратено в 13:34, сряда
MZprox: we have cities with no food resource, or only a tundra deer.. those cities won't help us much raising armies
Изпратено в 13:35, сряда
2metraninja: but what will keep you safe from RB?
if you have so less potential to raise an army?
MZprox: because we wouldn't go down that easily as the inca.. we could draft 5 rifles a turn if necessary
we would still lose of course, but Rb wouldnt kill their winning chance by attacking us
Изпратено в 13:46, сряда
2metraninja: in my eyes, this was the whole idea of us giving our word to Ot4e that we will not extend NAP with RB - that we ALL 3 wont extend NAP, but will prepare armies and force RB to not be able to attack any of us and this way we secure each-other
Изпратено в 14:04, сряда
MZprox: what exactly want me to do? I did promise I will not extend the nap and prepare armies as much as i can
Изпратено в 14:10, сряда
2metraninja: just not signing NAP without getting assurances for mutual security from other sources is absurd situation
Изпратено в 14:11, сряда
MZprox: I think I always told you, several times that We will not make such a promise because we CAN'T. even you can't promise how your war with maya will go,
Изпратено в 14:13, сряда
2metraninja: yes, you are right that no one knows what will happen
Изпратено в 14:14, сряда
MZprox: i will have to leave soon, then i won't be here near chat for a while
2metraninja: when you will be online?
ot4e wanted 3-side chat
MZprox: i think onyl in the evening
2metraninja: ok then, lets try to have chat then
MZprox: ok, but i think I said what i can in the previous session
Изпратено в 14:22, сряда
2metraninja: we agreed to not extend NAP with RB with the clear condition that we ALL 3 must have standing army and invade RB if they prepare to invade any of us. and this was the thing we kept discussing ever since. today is the first time I hear about you giving no assurances about helping us if RB attack us
Изпратено в 14:35, сряда
2metraninja: this is how we secure each-other's safety and a reason to not extend NAP with RB
for me it is real surprise to hear that we wont have such safety
Изпратено в 14:37, сряда
2metraninja: I dont want you to tell me exact numbers or dates, but to give me your word you will act in the spirit of this mutual protection agreement
your word is good enough for me
MZprox: we believe that you have the potential to become stronger and more dangerous than RB. in that case it would be against our civ's interest to help you. And I was always carefull not to make irresponsible promises. I could promise that we will not allow RB to gain an easy victory against a weaker foe.
Изпратено в 14:39, сряда
MZprox: you can take it as a complement, but still you can't convince us otherwise
Изпратено в 14:40, сряда
MZprox: i could say something like: if you are at war with maya and rb attacks you we will come to your aid, but being in war can be quite different.. just techicly in war, on the brink of defeat/victory etc
Изпратено в 14:42, сряда
MZprox: i have to go now, I think a will be online about 8pm next
2metraninja: ok, lets see if we can meet then
but we must have solution to this isecure situation to us one way or another.
and it must be soon
Изпратено в 14:51, сряда
MZprox: alright, but i don't see your situation insecure
besides the fact that no one can predict the events
2metraninja: our situation IS insecure
Изпратено в 14:53, сряда
2metraninja: we are facing the possibility of military power number 1 hit us while we are busy fighting civ number 2 and there is you telling us that you cant promise you will lift a finger for us
unless you see we are dying
which of course will be too late for us you to do a thing
MZprox: Nah.. that's not what I said
Изпратено в 14:55, сряда
MZprox: i can't promise that we will imediately attack RB if they declare war on you.. at least not at the moment, but as 175 comes closer it is possible we can mek such a statement. I can promise you that we will not leave you alone against maya and RB .. assuming you have not won your war technically against maya by then
which is unlikely
2metraninja: but of course it is unlikely
our best hopes are that we smash Maya in the open and stabilize the front
we are not planning to wage serious war with Maya
why would we?
we cant win it and be ready on the RB border at t 175
Изпратено в 14:59, сряда
MZprox: Right now we are preparing to war, nothing will change our path (if we fail in stealing we will lose 3-4 turns, but hopefully it won't happen). Then we will act on the sentiment that we want to kkep the balance of powers. I think that's the best a civ in our position could do.. and i1m telling these things to you because I'm playing my cards more open. more open than you usually
Изпратено в 15:03, сряда
MZprox: now i really need to go
cya