4.19.1 | Venice's last Crusade of 1285 - 11 capitals in 1 turn | Huge Archipelago, Deity Marathon | Effortless Domination

[Alpakinator]

By 1285 A.D, the Valley of Economic and Naval Industrial Complex of the Earth:

Spoiler :

the birthplace of Capitalism:

Spoiler :

produced a fleet 5 times stronger than the combined navies of the rest of the world: 44 Great Galleases, 97 Fustas, 14 Caravels and 6 Corvettes. Stationed them at the borders of the remaining 11 independent and oblivious capitals.
Upon completion of the Sistine Chapel:

Spoiler :

in it, Enrico Dandolo lovingly and peacefully preached the last Crusade against the non-Capitalist, rotten world:

Spoiler :

Gustave dore, ~1883, Dandolo preaching the crusade

and so it had begun:

Spoiler :

After 10 years (2 turns), most naval and ranged resistance was gone, and many capitals already defenseless:

Spoiler :

Another 10 years later, only Amsterdam proved challenging due to excellent city placement:

Spoiler :

In total, after 30 years (6 turns) the world was purged. 11 capitals stormed simultaneously to prevent the axis of evil from recapturing:

Spoiler :

All 14 capitals under a clearly not evil, God-loving control of the Capitalist Doge.

---

Chronological photojournal with all saves below:

 

[Alpakinator]

Saves:​

All autosaves every 2 turns from start to finish, + few manual saves in special moments. If you want to play this scenario, or just the last conquest, backup your own ModdedSaves folder from Users\[your_username]\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\and replace it with the one from the Google drive:

Venice_domination_11capitals – Google Drive

drive.google.com

Important turns:
234 - ragebait Denmark into war
279 - religion founded
456 - last war with Denmark - vassal
470 - declaring war on Siam - vassal
557 - war with 11 civs at the same time (last crusade)
563 - domination victory

Mods:​

CBP v.4.19.1 with EUI:
(1) Community Patch
(2) Vox Populi
(3a) VP - EUI Compatibility Files
(4a) Squads for VP
and:
(over) More Unique Components for VP (v 88)

Settings:​

• Archipelago
• Huge
• Deity
• Low Sea level
• Enabled research agreements
• No ancient ruins (I felt they'd make the game to easy)
• 14 naval focused Civilizations:
  (me - Venice), Byzantium, Ottomans, Netherlands, Siam, Indonesia, England, Denmark, China, Carthage, Spain, Portugal, Morocco, Korea (I could've added polynesia)
• 28 CS
• Every other setting default.

CBP code changes:​

I increased naval flavours for AI to encourage building ships, because by default AI builds very few making it it easy to win. As you saw in the first post, domination was still easy. These code changes didn't affect AI noticeably since AI's army was still 90%+ land based:

Spoiler CBP code changes :

in '(1) Community Patch/Database Changes/AI/CoreStrategyChanges.sql'
(ECONOMICAISTRATEGY_EXPAND_TO_OTHER_CONTINENTS, FLAVOR_EXPANSION) 50 -> 80
(ECONOMICAISTRATEGY_EXPAND_TO_OTHER_CONTINENTS, FLAVOR_NAVAL_RECON) 40 -> 80
(ECONOMICAISTRATEGY_EXPAND_TO_OTHER_CONTINENTS, FLAVOR_NAVAL_RECON) 40 -> 80
(ECONOMICAISTRATEGY_REALLY_NEED_RECON_SEA, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 40 -> 80
(ECONOMICAISTRATEGY_REALLY_NEED_RECON_SEA, FLAVOR_NAVAL_RECON) 50 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_AT_WAR, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 30 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_AT_WAR, FLAVOR_NAVAL_RECON) 30 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_EMPIRE_DEFENSE, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 30 -> 80
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_EMPIRE_DEFENSE_CRITICAL, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 40 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_LOSING_WARS, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 20 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_LOSING_WARS, FLAVOR_NAVAL_RECON) 20 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_MINOR_CIV_THREAT_CRITICAL, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 15 -> 45
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_NEED_AIR_CARRIER, FLAVOR_AIR_CARRIER) 20 -> 40
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_NEED_NAVAL_UNITS, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 40 -> 120
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_NEED_NAVAL_UNITS_CRITICAL, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 60 -> 180
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_WAR_MOBILIZATION, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 30 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_WAR_MOBILIZATION, FLAVOR_NAVAL_RECON) 25 -> 50
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_WINNING_WARS, FLAVOR_NAVAL) 30 -> 100
(MILITARYAISTRATEGY_WINNING_WARS, FLAVOR_NAVAL_RECON) 30 -> 100

So maybe this file is bugged, since previous CBP versions (eg. 4.16) had different files instead of this one. Only speculation, idk much.

Brief playthough:​

Restarted the game on t1 to find a good start (kinda cheating ik ). I wanted a desert start for petra (+2 trade routes).

Spoiler An ok, but non-desert start: :

but by zooming in on the fog of war corners, I noticed a possible coastal desert, mountain, river spot on the east:

Spoiler Yes! And with marble! Perfect. :

At that time i thought Macchu Picchu (mountain necessary) will be important, due to +15% prod bonus, but i won before industrial connections.

Now the plan is to:​

1. Build: Shrine MonumentPyramidCouncil and/or Hunthouse Temple of Artemis Mausoleum of HalicarnassusForge and Water MillPetraTerracotta ArmyCollosus
   This order is important, because that's the order that AI prioritizes these wonders, and we can't allow them to build any. Ambitious but doable, since AI doesn't prioritize wonders as much as it used to, and the capital start is good despite 3t delay. This will give a very strong food, culture, gold and production bonuses for the capital and +4 trade routes, which will be internal into the capital to turn it into a powerhouse.
   Great Lighthouse is extremely important for conquest, but AI focuses on it so much, that we'd need to beeline it and sacrifice Temple of Artemis, Mausoleum and Teracotta at least. It's a bad deal, better to conquer a city with Great Lighthouse.
2. Focus on religion founding. Allying religious CS, Shrine first, God-King pantheon (by far the best for expansionist Venice due to high popoulation from puppets). Stonehenge is unnecessary, we'll get religion without it.
3. Level up the pathfinder to trailblazer III to embark early, and then survivalism III. It'll be useful in barb camps and future pillaging of enemy territory.
4. Find as many CS as possible for max quests and spots for 2 cities I'll found with merchants (1 from Pyramids, 1 from Trade).

Spoiler Great 2nd city spot found :

one of the best natural wonders, cool!

to be continued...

 

[Alpakinator]

28th of April Update:

I won't be finishing the playthrough description. Too lazy to reinstall 4.19. go though all the turns and write about them. Here's the important points:

1) Sieging cities and generally fighting with with ships that can move after attacking (galleases) is much more effective than with ones that can't (frigates), which is part of the reason such aggressive strategies are possible.

2) 2nd reason is AI is very bad at wanting to build ships. However, with 4.21 version of Vox Populi just released, Ai ship production is improved (I only started testing it). Therefore, dominating AI at sea will be harder than in this playthough.

3) The no maintenance cost of Fustas is a big deal, you can have as many as you want, so have as many as you're willing to micromanage. With admirals, promotions and Venetian craftsmanship swarms of them are even effective vs ironclads, unless they have "Dauntless" promo. But in official 4UC implementation, the Fusta will have maintenace cost, but no supply cost. So spamming them won't be as good. They and Great galelases will be stronger though.

4) 'Cooperation' follower belief increases yields form internal trades a lot. combined with double trade routes it gives huge food and production potential to Venice. So religion is a must for Venice. Just make sure it's not a huge overkill, cause it you have much more production/turn than cost of galleases, then production will overflow to a limit and start getting wasted.

5) All wonders increasing capital yields are a must, as well as ones giving % yield bonuses to all cites. It's because puppets disproportionally benefit from % bonuses. Venetian puppet that has 20 science/turn raw, will output only 10 science cause of 50% yield penalty on Venetian puppets. But with Whales 10% science monopoly, they will output 12 science because (20 science * ( 100% - 50% + 10%)) = 20 science * (60%) = 12 science. Not 11 science. Instant yields from great people generation/expenditure matter a lot because there are no % tech and policy increases from number of cities. So 100 science matters for venice 2x more than for non puppet 21 city empire.

6) Conquering all civs at the same time is not viable on large maps with standard speed. The map needs to me either small enough or game-speed slow enough for that, since producing and moving this navy around the map takes time. Otherwise your galleases will meet too many frigates or even ironclads once they arrive to the enemies.

7) Put forts or citadels adjacent to Venice to make more tiles where ships can spawn. That way you can spam-buy more ships/turn in case of emergency.

8) Arsenale Di Venezia is the best. 10% CS matters and +1 speed even more. To get huge amounts of money you don't need Rialto District. Instead, wisely sell some of you puppet cities to civs you plan to go to war with, that have a lot of disposable gold. Sometimes enemy AI gathers ridiculous amounts of gold:

Spoiler Extreme Game-winning trade example :

Yeah, I just won after that.

So pay attention to AI gold and you can get game-winning amounts of gold that can buy you an enormous army.

9) Great Galleases start with Bombardment I. This means it's easier for them to gain Logistics. with Logistics they will keep the ability to move after attacking when upgraded to frigates and cruisers. If you can get Teocalli And Brandenburg Gate in Venice, your galleases will be only 10 exp away from Logistics upon production on standard speed!!! It's a huge deal late game.

10) Speed of you navy is key. The more speed the more of your ships can hit enemy ships/cites/land units per turns and be able to retreat outside their range. So conquering the owner of the great lighthouse is a priority.

11) Since galleases/fustas are 2x slower in ocean, be very careful how you move when attacking cities, to not have them stuck in its range.

12) Move your navy with "Squads" - a feature of CBP:

It's much more convenient to move 30 ships with them.

That's it.

 

[chicorbeef]

Just curious, why Glory of God? It looks like you ended the game before you made it to the Industrial Era.

Do you think a strategy like this is possible outside of Marathon?

 

[Alpakinator]

Just curious, why Glory of God? It looks like you ended the game before you made it to the Industrial Era.

Do you think a strategy like this is possible outside of Marathon?

1) Glory of God was a bad choice in this case. When reforming i didn't yet had the plan to win domination so quickly. Crusader Spirit would be the best. Also, Hero Worship would be good alternative to Divine Inheritance, since conquering cities with ships is so easy.
2) Conquering all capitals at the same time on non marathon? It's much harder, but possible on smaller maps. But Conquering civs one at the time? - Yes, easily on any speed, and map size. AI is so unwilling to build large navies, that you can easily outnumber any civ 6-to-1. Recently won standard size and speed, easily winning war with 3 top civs.

However, Venice suffers from standard or quick speed, because in renaissance, the capital can have production/turn up to 5 * production cost of a Fusta on standard speed. This production overflows and accumulates but to a small limit, so most of it gets wasted.

 

[Sblueh]

What policies do you usually get when playing Venice ? I feel like even though Tradition is a must-have for Venice, authority could also be a great choice as a first or secondary tree ? Especially since Statecraft, Fealty and artistry bonuses feel a bit underwhelming compared to authority for a domination focused game.

 

[Alpakinator]

What policies do you usually get when playing Venice ? I feel like even though Tradition is a must-have for Venice, authority could also be a great choice as a first or secondary tree ? Especially since Statecraft, Fealty and artistry bonuses feel a bit underwhelming compared to authority for a domination focused game.

Always Tradition, Statecraft, Imperialism, Freedom. But I'll experiment with Honor, Fealty, Imperialism, Freedom, for those sweet bonuses per 10 military units, while spamming 100-300 fustas.

Statecraft extra spies, science from city you spy on, specialists, and allied CS, extra trade route (x2), and trade yields are very strong bonuses. I'm worried authority instead of statecraft would slow down our science so much, that we'd need to execute a really fast domination, before enemies are in a very strong tech lead. Idk how much science will be gained from killing units due to authority in comparison.

This playthough is quite lucky with capital start and Old Failthful, and wonders built. Normally it's harder to do such a brutal domination, so it'd take longer to later ages where AI snowballs more.

Artistry and progress is just a bad choices tho, and AI chooses them most of the time while playing venice XDD.

I'll explain more in the initial posts if I'll get myself to finish them.

 

[mafiadysio]

As a Venice enjoyer (domination with the same policy path as you, but I only on lower levels) I will eagerly await for your updates! Your existing posts up top are very insightful

 

[Alpakinator]

I made an update of a reserved post. I won't go through the playthrough. I only went though some important points.

 

[mafiadysio]

Hey, just wanted to say thanks for giving an update. I actually did try out a game as Venice, following not just your strategy but also the "spirit" where you amass giant fleets next to each opponents capitals and then you declare war on all on the same turn. I did it on epic speed, but I noticed (and as you mentioned) marathon speed would have made simultaneous world-wide conquering a lot more easier to carry out. Generating one great gealleass a turn on epic speed is half as good as generating one a turn on marathon speed. Maybe I can try again on marathon one day

 

[Alpakinator]

Yea, i gave an overly optimistic view on this strategy here. Good point about galleass/turn. What map size did you play on?

 

[mafiadysio]

Not sure what it is called, but it is the one that allows 10 major civs by default. But yeah, I actually have a couple of questions:

Whta is the limit to the production overflow? Is it some set value?

Do you need to be friends with the other party to sell a puppeted city? Especially for the lump sum gold figure. I never seem to figure out what the mechanics for selling a city to another played is like.

 

[Alpakinator]

Oh yea, that's a "Large" map. I guess equivalent of my Marathon "Huge" would be Epic" Standard", so with 8 civs by default. You have 2x less time on Epic vs Marathon to move but the map area is 2.5 times smaller. Idk what's the overflow limit is. I'll measure it. You could store production for wonders well.

You need to not denounce them and have embassy to be able to sell them cities. Sometimes cities are marked in red, usually cause they're freshly conquered. But it happens with old cities too. Idk what are the conditions.