(5-68) Rework CS Quest: Gift Specific Unit

[azum4roll]

Current quest rewards:
Base Influence: 25
Base Gold: 60
RandomMod: 10

Formula:
Era scaler = 100% for Ancient and Classical, and +50% for each era afterwards
Random contribution = random(RandomMod) * 2. This gives a uniform distribution of random numbers 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18. This number is added to both era-scaled Influence and Gold.

Quest reward modifiers from player: Austria +50%, Foreign Service +50%
Pledge modifier: +15% if pledged to protect
Personality modifier: +25% if Friendly, -25% if Hostile
Same religion modifier: Abode of Peace +25%
Above modifiers stack additively and apply to both Influence and Gold

Gold mods:
Mercantile: x1.5
Maritime: x1.25
These stack multiplicatively.

---

Problem:
In the very early game, you can get quests to gift Slingers to CS, but the Slingers are so cheap they sometimes cost less than what the CS gives. And then there are the Spearman UUs which don't obsolete until Renaissance, but cost very little compared to the gold reward.
This quest is very easy to complete compared to another quest with slightly lower reward - Bully CS, which obviously pisses off a CS and may trigger a quest to declare war on you. It should have a low reward to match the low cost and risk.

---

Proposal:
Lower base influence to 20, RandomMod to 5 (same as bully CS) and base gold to 40. These are all simple SQL changes.

 

[Anarcomu]

Especially when playing Austria, since you get a +50% reward from quests, you can reliably hit rewards above cost (and statecraft help, too). Plus, this quest have a hidden +8-12 , since your are giving a unit.

 

[ma_kuh]

Realistically, this needs to reward something that isn't gold. As long as it's costing gold to reward you with gold, the quest won't feel good, even if it's "balanced".
At the end of the day the quest is basically: "have a bank? did you comb through all the CSs to find the one asking for a unit? here's some free* influence".

 

[Tekamthi]

Realistically, this needs to reward something that isn't gold. As long as it's costing gold to reward you with gold, the quest won't feel good, even if it's "balanced".
At the end of the day the quest is basically: "have a bank? did you comb through all the CSs to find the one asking for a unit? here's some free* influence".

i agree with the concern on some level, but at same time, is this not an abstraction of real life financial mechanism... "spend money to make money"

 

[Stalker0]

I can see lowering gold but do we need to lower influence as well?

Ultimately I'll admit my bias, I really like this quest. Its one of my favorites, and I'm worried we are overreacting on the nerf.

 

[Tekamthi]

Ultimately I'll admit my bias, I really like this quest.

agreed, and I agree that the nerf may not be ideal. Maybe there's room for changes here? Not sure if it would be viable code-wise, but say you give unit, get instant influence reward, and one of two time-delayed additional rewards: if unit survives x turns, you get it back with +1 level; if it dies, you get gold consolation prize payout

 

[azum4roll]

I can see lowering gold but do we need to lower influence as well?

Ultimately I'll admit my bias, I really like this quest. Its one of my favorites, and I'm worried we are overreacting on the nerf.

It's mainly for the comparison with the bully quest, which is much harder to fulfill and has a drawback.

 

[Stalker0]

It's mainly for the comparison with the bully quest, which is much harder to fulfill and has a drawback.

So then is the bully quest too weak then? (though if the tribute rework passes that will certainly add more appeal).

 

[ma_kuh]

I'll also mention that when the influence reward is less than 30, and for a far-off CS that I'm unlikely to influence again (I'm not gambling that another easy quest will come around), it may still be completely un-worthwhile, even if I'm refunded 90%+ of the cost.

 

[CppMaster]

I'll also mention that when the influence reward is less than 30, and for a far-off CS that I'm unlikely to influence again (I'm not gambling that another easy quest will come around), it may still be completely un-worthwhile, even if I'm refunded 90%+ of the cost.

I'd gamble that if 90% cost is refunded, because then the cost is very low.

 

[ma_kuh]

Yeah I was probably hyperbolic with the 90%. But I guess the randomMod is added to both the Influence and the Gold equally, judging by the OP? Is that correct? @azum4roll

That is, it will roll 0-18 once for the quest. Meaning if you have a low gold refund, you are also getting a low influence reward. So it's 60g, 25 influence (+5 or whatever for the unit itself) in the worst cases, which are the ones I'm remembering not completing (if I don't already have a bit of influence already). I guess the actual worst case would be with a hostile CS as well, so: 45g / 20 in

 

[azum4roll]

Yeah I was probably hyperbolic with the 90%. But I guess the randomMod is added to both the Influence and the Gold equally, judging by the OP? Is that correct? @azum4roll

That is, it will roll 0-18 once for the quest. Meaning if you have a low gold refund, you are also getting a low influence reward. So it's 60g, 25 influence (+5 or whatever for the unit itself) in the worst cases, which are the ones I'm remembering not completing (if I don't already have a bit of influence already). I guess the actual worst case would be with a hostile CS as well, so: 45g / 20 in

It'll be rolling 0, 2, 4, 6, 8 if RandomMod is set to 5. The influence will always be below 30 before Medieval (good, no more RNG!)

Yes, the same random value is used for both influence and the reward yield.

 

[randomnub]

I do the quest even for hostile far away CSs only in order to refresh it and have a nearby friendly CS ask for it. I like this quest, a lot, as it allows for CSs to get a nice army of gifted units early on, but it should not give gold back. I'd welcome a change for it to provide Great Generals or Admiral points, a way for pacifist civs to still get military leaders.

 

[CppMaster]

I do the quest even for hostile far away CSs only in order to refresh it and have a nearby friendly CS ask for it. I like this quest, a lot, as it allows for CSs to get a nice army of gifted units early on, but it should not give gold back. I'd welcome a change for it to provide Great Generals or Admiral points, a way for pacifist civs to still get military leaders.

This is a great idea!

 

[Anarcomu]

This also means that as a pacifist, you don't get economic bonuses, and you can't spend gold from quest to do the next quest. I think it's in the right direction.

 

[Legen]

I sponsor this.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.