670 AD - possible tech purchases!

[donsig]

I recommend we continue researching gunpowder, buy printing press from Babylon and buy astronomy from India. Rather than pay Gandhi 725g up front I recommend we pay 25gpt and 250g

Reprinted from DFZ #31 with permission from the editor.

We can buy printing press from the French for WM and 401g. Joan will sell us gunpowder for WM, 1gpt and 797g; banking for WM, 14gpt and 800g; and astronomy for WM, 9gpt and 799g. Greece, China and America also have these techs but want even more than France does. Hiawatha has all but banking but he cannot beat the French price either. Russia needs our furs and incense and so will sell us techs for the following prices if we include our WM and the two luxuries in the deal. Printing press for 90g, gunpowder for 552g, banking for 1gpt and 798g, and astronomy for 715g. Babylon wants our incense and will sell the techs for these prices if we include our WM and incense in the deal. Printing press for 12 g, gunpowder for 479, banking for 745g, and astronomy for 643g. Rome will sell for incense, WM and these amounts of gold. Printing press for 307, gunpowder for 773g, banking for 13gpt and 805g and astronomy for 7gpt and 811g. Shaka wants furs and will sell the techs for the following prices if we also give our WM and furs. Printing press for 315g, gunpowder for 777g and astronomy for 7gpt and 814g. Gandhi can undercut the Zulu price. He will sell the techs for WM, furs and the following amounts of gold. Printing press for 165g, gunpowder for 579g, banking for 1gpt and 798g and astronomy for 725g. Note that gpt can be substituted for gold up front at the rate of 1gpt for each 18g up front. This increases the actual cost of the deal since 1gpt equals 20g. We are currently exporting incense to Greece for 4gpt and this deal can be ended at any time. We are sending furs to China for 2gpt and 13 turns remain on that deal. India has dyes for sale, Bablyon has ivory and China has ivory and silk. We have an ivory, incense and 7 gems within our borders that are unconnected. Our treasury stands at 814g with a 110gpt. We are researching gunpowder and will have it in 16 turns.

 

[amirsan]

I think Banking is much more important. We should strive on getting it.

 

[gunning1]

I think that we should still try to get gunpowder first so we can go for military tradition. Then go for something like banking, printing press, or astronomy.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

Gunpowder is our must. Banking would be nice, i wil not say that it wouldnt be. Astronomy isnt a must since were on a pangea. The Gunpowerd deal that is the best, IMHO, is the Russia deal. We must remember, though, Russia has its Cosaks on the way.

 

[eyrei]

I see no reason to pay money for printing press. It is a useless technology for our civilization, and is not required for advancement into the next age. I would, however, like to get banking. I think some other civs may not even have it yet...

 

[Octavian X]

Considering our warmongering nature, gunpowerder would be the best for the defense of our homeland. Then again, we need money to pay for upgrade of pikemen.

 

[Chieftess]

We can get gunpowder on our own (we already started it - it would be a waste of gpt to buy it outright). But... I've found some trades (in the "affordable range"):

France			Us
Gunpowder		1gpt, WM, 797g upfront

India
Gunpowder		Furs, 610g upfront

or

Astronomy		Furs, WM, 1gpt, 707g upfront

Babylon
Gunpowder		Incense, 494g upfront

(China, Iroqious want more than the rest)

The Iroqious and Zulus do not have banking! (possible trade!)

Babylonians
Banking for: Incense, 3gpt, and 706 gold

As former Trade Leader , I recommend the Babylonian deal. THEN, (on that SAME turn), we should trade banking to the Iroquois and Zulu to see what techs we can get. (We may or may not have to give gold, wm, etc. along with banking). It might seem shorthanded at first, but it saves on research and gold. If we do not trade banking this turn, our oppurtunity is lost.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

The bab banking deal! IMHO this is a very good deal. we could get many other techs if we just did this one deal. If we play our cards right, it could pay for itself.

 

[Chieftess]

You know, it's situations like these that make me think of Sulla's trading finese.

 

[GenMarshall]

If we can get the Banking advance, We can build banks thus increasing our commerce with Marketplaces.
As Former Military Leader, It is nessicary to obtain Gunpowder.

 

[eyrei]

I fully support purchasing banking from the Babylonians and then trading it in hopes of acquiring other techs we are lacking.

 

[eyrei]

This needs to be posted as a quick poll, ASAP. Since there is no guarantee that the trade leader will even see this thread before the turn chat tomorrow, someone else should probably do it.

 

[Chieftess]

Hmm, could we as FA make the poll? Since we also deal in foriegn trade? (although more along the lines of negotiations. Maybe the lines were more blurred back in demogame 1 term 2 and 3... when chiefpaca (FA) and I (Trade) did a lot of trading stuff). Then again, since eyrei asked me to be in charge of FA for the turn chat, I can push for those trades enough so that we have to "take it to the forums"!.

 

[Shaitan]

Go for it, CT.

 

[donsig]

Whoa, Nellie! Quick polls for a trade involving exporting a luxury (which involves a duration) are against the CoS. You will be PIed and warned if you post such a poll. I think it is about time to push for that section of the CoS to be changed to carry a real punishment.

Chieftess's idea about buying banking and then trading for other techs is good but I would not give up over 700g up front for it. That is most of our treasury! What good will gunpowder be if we cannot upgrade our forces? We should substitute a gpt payment to reduce the down payment. We could pay 30gpt and 262g instead. Also, as for reselling, do the prospective buyers have any gold in their treasuries? I know we'd be trying for techs but how much of our investment can we expect to recoup?

@eyrei: Printing press is no more useless than an alliance with China. For a luxury and 12g we'd be giving Babylon a reason not to attack us for 20 turns. My proposal would have done this and the same for India (without involving us in war).

 

[FortyJ]

If we are going to purchase a tech (which I believe is a good thing, btw), then we should purchase a marketable one so that we could immediately turn it around and trade it to others for the remainder of the techs that we are currently lacking.

We should pursue this regardless of the income or wealth recouped in these other deals, as we will doubtless acquire numerous technologies for the price of one. This makes good fiscal sense.

 

[Chieftess]

Would you rather have us stumble our way to muskets while other nations have riflemen and cavalry? If we keep our secrets and gold now, we will be seeing tanks for sure, but from other nations - when we are researching cavalry at 40 turns per tech!

 

[amirsan]

Banking>Wall Street>Better Science Research for Military Tradition

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Chieftess
Would you rather have us stumble our way to muskets while other nations have riflemen and cavalry? If we keep our secrets and gold now, we will be seeing tanks for sure, but from other nations - when we are researching cavalry at 40 turns per tech!

I don't know who this is addressed to but I will answer it. I think there is a consensus here to get banking from Babylonia and then re-trade it for other techs, gunpowder included. I did raise three points:

1) A quick poll on this trade would be against the CoS just as the quick polls for the alliances were. That is a technical point but a valid one nonetheless. I do not raise this point to snuff out the trade but to ensure we make the trade in a manner consistent with our three books.

2) While getting techs is the main goal of the trade there is nothing wrong with recouping whatever gold we can. Let's see how much we can get back so we know what we're getting into and can make budgetary plans accordingly.

The Zulus have no gold in their treasury and Hiawatha has 2g. Perhaps we can get some gpt out of them?

3) While I agree with the banking trade in principle I would substitute some gpt for gold upfront. Getting gunpowder now will be more useful if we can upgrade some units right away. Depleting our treasury will not allow us to do so. By upping our gpt payment by 25gpt we can keep almost 500g in our treasury for immediate use. As the Zulus and Iroquois are broke we cannot expect to get back anything that we spend up front. this makes it even more imperative to reduce the initial payout in the banking purchase.

 

[eyrei]

Well, the poll is posted...where is my PI?