[Vote] (7-59 & 7-60) Spy Consecutive Election Rigging Proposals

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Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

Host Note: 7-59 and 7-59a are mutually exclusive, but either is compatible with 7-60.

VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 59
Discussion Thread: (7-59) Nerf Consecutive CS Election Rigs (20%)
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @axatin

Proposal Details
Current:
Each consecutive election rig increases CS influence by +100%.
e.g. First rig = 50 , second rig = 100 , third rig = 150

Proposed:
Each consecutive election rig increases CS influence by +20%.
e.g. First rig = 50 , second rig = 60 , third rig = 70

Rationale:
Longstaying spies in CS scale way better than longstaying spies/diplomats in major civ cities. This should place them back into equal footing.
It'll also be easier to keep CS influence from going out of hand.



VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 59a
Discussion Thread: (7-59a) Nerf Consecutive CS Election Rigs (40%)
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @axatin

Proposal Details
Proposal: Adjust the rigs from 100% after each rig to 40%.

Rationale: The OP is right that the rigs are too strong, but I think 20% is a bit too much of a nerf. I am using 40% for this counterproposal. The table below will show the differences between the current (100%) the OP (20%), and this proposal (40%).


I am assuming 30 NP per turn for a spy as that is generally the average I see for early spies (and also if the new spy level change kicks in). It takes 15 turns to do a rig so that is what this is based on. I assume Renaissance era until Turn 60 (so era scaling starts at 3 and moves to 4 at turn 60).

Turns	Rig Influence - 100% (Cumulative)	Rig Influence - 20% (Cumulative)	Rig Influence - 40% (Cumulative)	NP (cumulative)	Inf/NP (100%)	Inf/NP (20%)	Inf/NP (40%)
15​	105​	105​	105​	450​	0.23​	0.23​	0.23​
30​	300​	228​	246​	900​	0.33​	0.25​	0.27​
45​	585​	369​	423​	1350​	0.43​	0.27​	0.31​
60​	1085​	581​	707​	1800​	0.60​	0.32​	0.39​
75​	1705​	817​	1039​	2250​	0.76​	0.36​	0.46​
90​	2445​	1077​	1419​	2700​	0.91​	0.40​	0.53​
105​	3305​	1361​	1847​	3150​	1.05​	0.43​	0.59​

VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 60
Discussion Thread: (7-60) Decolonization Resets Consecutive Rigging Counter
Proposer: @axatin
Sponsor: @axatin

Proposal Details
Proposal: When a Decolonization passes, the bonus for successfully rigging previous elections is reset for all spies.

Rationale: It's imbalanced that Decol resets the current influence for all players but spies keep getting a high amount of influence for rigging an election. Thematically, a Decol is a complete reset of relationships between city-states and major civs, so spies shouldn't keep bonuses based on what happened before the decol.

 

[Stalker0]

I am going to try to highlight why I think 7-60 is a bad idea, and therefore, why implementing both 59a and 60 together is a bad idea.

First, here is what the rig numbers would look like if we do a decol in industrial era (which is where you first start to see it), using 7-60. And then maybe a change to modern after 3 rigs or 45 turns.

prev rigs	era	Turns	Rig Influence - 100% (Cumulative)	Rig Influence - 20% (Cumulative)	Rig Influence - 40% (Cumulative)	NP (cumulative)	Inf/NP (100%)	Inf/NP (20%)	Inf/NP (40%)
0​	4​	15​	140​	140​	140​	450​	0.31​	0.31​	0.31​
1​	4​	30​	400​	304​	328​	900​	0.44​	0.34​	0.36​
2​	5​	45​	875​	539​	623​	1350​	0.65​	0.40​	0.46​
3​	5​	60​	1500​	804​	978​	1800​	0.83​	0.45​	0.54​
4​	5​	75​	2275​	1099​	1393​	2250​	1.01​	0.49​	0.62​
5​	5​	90​	3200​	1424​	1868​	2700​	1.19​	0.53​	0.69​
6​	5​	105​	4275​	1779​	2403​	3150​	1.36​	0.56​	0.76​

Lets look at after 3 rigs, we have a total of 623 influence (assuming the 40% number which is currently leading in the poll). At that point in the game a diplo unit could grant me like 125 influence, so the effect of 45 turns of spy work would be equivalent to 5 diplo units. Now in the early game, where diplo units are super expensive (and a rig might even bag me an ally), that's some super good value. But at this point in the game, 5 diplo units is just like 1 buy round of them, I will make another 5 in like 4 turns. The mechanics of CS adjustment change dramatically at this point in the game, and if rigs are to remain a useful tool they need to continue to scale with it. In summary:

• Decolonization is already the most powerful diplomatic "reset" in the game, often dropping thousands of influences.
• the AI today still underestimates how powerful it is, and will propose it even to its own peril. This would add another area of complexity the AI would have to be taught to deal with.
• CS rigs at their base simply do not scale with diplomatic unit power in the later part of the game. If CS rigs are reset, they simply don't remain strong enough to bother using rather than diplo units

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.