(7-70a) Vassal Unit Tribute - Based On Vassal Tech; Cannot Gift Units Obsoleted For Vassal; Allow Vassal UU and Naval Units

[azum4roll]

Counterproposal of:

(7-70) Vassal Unit Tribute At Era Change: Use Highest Tech Tier Units, Not Lowest; No More Recon Units

Proposal: When you change eras, your vassal each grant you units as a tribute. That unit is often equal to the lowest unit you have in your empire. So if I have machine guns, but I forgot to upgrade a musketman in the corner of my empire somewhere, they can give me a musketman. the Proposal...

forums.civfanatics.com

Proposal:
Vassal can gift any unit class that the master already has, at equal weight, except:
1. Units that have already obsoleted for both the vassal and the master;
2. Units that have not been researched by the vassal;
3. Units with DefaultUnitAI = UNITAI_EXPLORE, which include Pathfinder, Scout, Explorer, Commando, and Bandeirantes (but does not include Conquistadors);
4. Units that can settle new cities (Conquistador);
5. Policy-unlocked units;
6. Missiles and nukes (planes are allowed);
7. City-State exclusive units;
8. Units that cost strategic resource that the master doesn't have.

In addition, vassal will gift their unique units if their respective unit class is chosen, unless not meeting the above criteria (in which case it falls back to the normal unit).

If no unit can be given (all of the master's units are too advanced for the vassal), vassal randomly picks from all the units it can train, again at equal weight.

Edit 1: Add more restrictions regarding air units, CS units, and strategic units.

 

[azum4roll]

Edited to add some overlooked restrictions.

War Elephants are intentionally allowed, if you somehow still have some and your vassal is that behind.

 

[Stalker0]

my problem is this reintroduces the very thing I started this whole thing to prevent. You can still get crappy units from your vassal that you would rather delete than use.

Also if I'm reading the logic right, there is a risk that:

1) The master is tier ahead of his vassal, and has no outdated units on the field.
2) The vassal cannot make any units that the master has

And so the vassal would not generate any units in that case I assume?


The key question revolves around the meaning of this statement: any unit class that the master already has.

Does that mean a unit I have in the field, or have the ability to make right at this moment?

 

[Tekamthi]

Maybe should look at changing the reward around more than is proposed. This big dump of units that occurs is a little weird and gamey tbh

 

[azum4roll]

And so the vassal would not generate any units in that case I assume?

If no unit can be given (all of the master's units are too advanced for the vassal), vassal randomly picks from all the units it can train, again at equal weight.

You're supposed to care for your vassals' wellbeing, including keeping up in technologies. It's entirely your fault that they can't keep up with your techs.

The key question revolves around the meaning of this statement: any unit class that the master already has.

Does that mean a unit I have in the field, or have the ability to make right at this moment?

The unit class of any (military) unit the master currently has is entered into the random pool (and pruned by the restrictions).

Entering a new era is voluntary; you can control what units you have.

 

[Rekk]

You're supposed to care for your vassals' wellbeing, including keeping up in technologies. It's entirely your fault that they can't keep up with your techs.

The unit class of any (military) unit the master currently has is entered into the random pool (and pruned by the restrictions).

Entering a new era is voluntary; you can control what units you have.

Again, by "have", do you mean "owned on the map", or "researched the tech for" ?

 

[azum4roll]

On the map. That part hasn't been changed.

 

[usadefcon1]

If I'm reading this right then (7-86) and (7-86a) are not mutually exclusive. Is that correct?

 

[azum4roll]

This one's way more restrictive.

 

[azum4roll]

I completely forgot about naval units.

Currently vassal levy units are land only, but with how this proposal is worded, naval units would be considered.

@Recursive, @axatin, @Stalker0, is it fine to modify the proposal to add the following point?
9. Naval units if the master's capital (or specifically, the cities with a VassalLevyEra = 1 building) is not coastal

Also, sponsored.

 

[Stalker0]

I completely forgot about naval units.

Currently vassal levy units are land only, but with how this proposal is worded, naval units would be considered.

@Recursive, @axatin, @Stalker0, is it fine to modify the proposal to add the following point?
9. Naval units if the master's capital (or specifically, the cities with a VassalLevyEra = 1 building) is not coastal

Also, sponsored.

I am fine leaving jt land units only for mine if that’s what it is today

 

[azum4roll]

The proposal wording as it is will mean gifting ships even if master's capital isn't coastal.

The intention is allowing all normal units, but they need to be able to spawn on or near the capital.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.