7 Religions?

Zenon_pt said:
Question what is Daoism???????????

The others 6 I know, but Daoism, I cann't understand... (lost in translancion)...

One of the principal three main Chinese religions. Essentially, it could be summed up in a few essential things (remember this is oversimplification carried to the extreme): Life is not something to be suffering through, let what comes come, all is a part of the natural world. etc.
 
Dearmad said:
Bad analogy because a face of a cube is limited, and not the whole cube; a "piece" of the trinity, according to doctrine, is not limited and is in fact entire in its existance, as it is also a piece. Thus the "miracle," or whatever. This premise is the basis for the split between the east and western roman church, eastern thinking that christ followed the father and thus is not equal to the father, in some way, western rome disagrees.

And since when is Buddhism polytheistic- it does not ascribe the power to create or judge to any group of supernatuaral beings... the "beings" or "gods" are not in power or control, they are not worshipped as if they could decide our fates. These "gods" are not eternal, are not truly different from humans, who affect the material world equally. Humans strive to dwell heavenly in the same fashion as these beings. Things get screwed up about this once you get to the Mahayana and Tantric Mystical doctrines, which don't follow the original teachings.

As with all religions, Budhhism fractered apart in a few years after its inception.

well firstly the analogy is strictly refering to how three can be one at the same time, not to comment on the limitless nature of God.

second, buddhism, depending on the sect and area can be polytheistic - in china, buddhism adopted several ideals and gods that can control one's fate or fortune.
 
second, buddhism, depending on the sect and area can be polytheistic - in china, buddhism adopted several ideals and gods that can control one's fate or fortune.

This is kinda open for interpertation. I personally just think that trying to pin it down as mono or polytheistic just doesn't apply here. There are arguments to be made either way and neither one is terribly convincing in my opinion.
 
prob. w/ a lot of asian/eastern religions is that there r several variations and combinations with other religions/philosophies that make it hard to categorize under one heading
 
Well if one wanted to Place it on an axis in terms of Relative # of gods (with persons/incarnations of gods counting towards the more gods point)

Hinduism+Christianity-Judaism+Islam-Buddhism+Daoism+Confucianism

Pseudopolytheistic*-Monotheistic-Atheistic

*Technically monotheistic but with very complicated types of God

As for Modern Atheism/Secularism that would probably be represented by things that decrease religious effects (either techs or Civics Options..like ban all religions)

[For those who said that Confucianism is not a religion but a way of looking at life. Democracy is not a government but a way of making laws]
 
Dearmad said:
I'll be adding in Paganism and Atheism (Or secularism, whatever).

I agree. Paganism and Atheism (by any name) should definately be added.

On the other hand, limiting the game to just a handful of religions does it a major disservice. A Civ can have many religions (as in the real world). If so, it can be called irreligious, as it holds to no particular religion as its own, not necessarily atheism or agnosticism but religious neutrality.
 
I think there only including 7 religions for simplicities sake. It is a brand new concept to the game. It would be quite boring if each civilization had it's own state religion and holy city. Limiting the number means that some civs will have to adhere to some one else's religion, giving them benefits.

From the game it looks like any given city can have parts of any number of religion. Though you have to choose a state religion. Surely this is pretty accurate? There aren't many civilizations that havent had a religion associated with them (are there any?). Also i don't think there have been many wars waged over atheism or secularism so it's inclusion as an expressed religion doesn't make sense to me from a game perspective. Though it would be nice if they realised that not everyone has to adhere to a religion.
 
North King said:
One of the principal three main Chinese religions. Essentially, it could be summed up in a few essential things (remember this is oversimplification carried to the extreme): Life is not something to be suffering through, let what comes come, all is a part of the natural world. etc.

A type of Confuncio ideal???
 
Why have only 7 religions been included?? with 18 civs, and Judaism which is not even one of the larger religions in the world is included.

As someone pointed out earlier that no Israeli state has been included yet Judaism gets in...
As we're not yet sure how religions fit in the gameplay I may be wrong, but wouldn't it have been more interesting to have upto 18 religions as well?

The most glaring omissions are some form of Aminism/Sikhism/Atheist/Agnostic/African Traditional.
 
Probably not. Because if we have that many religions in a single game, each civ/nation will have its own religion, meaning that no civ will have a religion of someone else. Thus eliminating the new concept that should provide a new means of influencing your neighbor.

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Isn't Religion a Civics option? Perhaps Paganism (which IMO *really* should be included) will be the 'default' for all civs, and Atheism will be allowed as one of the options as well?

I'd be interested to know what the 'starting' religion of civs will be if it isn't set up like this.
 
Dearmad said:
What about the whole hierarchyt of angels and demons and the devil? Seems polytheistic to me.
EVERY RELIGION HAS ITS DEMONS, EVEN THE ATHEISM...CALLED BORING. :p :crazyeye:
Sorry man, in the islam , christianity and hebrew religions there are JUST one God, anyway, they call it by different names, but we come from the same one. We respect all of them so, they all are right. :)
The rest are just additions, even Mary, Mohamed (mahoma) and the angels/demons/saints/etc... I don´t want to hurt ANYONE with this, just to put it clear that are MONOTEISTIC RELIGIONS. ;)
 
Markus6 said:
I think there only including 7 religions for simplicities sake. It is a brand new concept to the game. It would be quite boring if each civilization had it's own state religion and holy city. Limiting the number means that some civs will have to adhere to some one else's religion, giving them benefits.

I think that ATHEISM would give the benefit of a improve of scientific advance, like a scientific leader,or something else? :goodjob:
What do you think?
 
I think there are hundreds of christian scientists (and other religions as well i'm sure but i have less experience of them) and just because stephen hawking is an atheist (have u read any of his books? all his theories are very unlikely) doesn't mean atheists are better scientists than any one else.
 
lol nothing at all, it's just an opinion. Doesn't subtract from the rest of my point.
 
I think generic religions is just as fun as generic civilizations.

*foreign advisor looking shocked: Generic civ 2 has declared war on generic civ 7*

My point is that part of what makes civ fun is that you recognize things and then change history with known elements.....
 
Markus6 said:
I think there are hundreds of christian scientists and just because stephen hawking is an atheist doesn't mean atheists are better scientists than any one else.
That's true. Many important contributions to science have been made by deeply religious scientists who just keep their religious views separate from their job (if they need to; much science can be seen as compatible with e.g. the Bible).
 
ogmoir said:
That's true. Many important contributions to science have been made by deeply religious scientists who just keep their religious views separate from their job (if they need to; much science can be seen as compatible with e.g. the Bible).

Look at Einstein. He was always talking about Der Alter (I think that's what it is in German)--The Old One in English--which was his name for God. Many modern scientists are pantheists (that God is everything), like Hinduism, except with rationalist Deism mixed in.
 
Hermes said:
I think generic religions is just as fun as generic civilizations.

*foreign advisor looking shocked: Generic civ 2 has declared war on generic civ 7*

My point is that part of what makes civ fun is that you recognize things and then change history with known elements.....

The problem is one of actors. By controlling the actions of civilizations, you are only controlling the earthly, the human. When you start to "control" religions, you start to move into the realm of the supernatural or the divine. I buy these games to step into a world leader's shoes, not God's.

Most religious folks that I know do not attribute the success or spread of their religions to earthly leaders, but rather to their conception of God and spiritual ones. What earthly leader caused Martin Luther to write his 96 thesis? None, yet it was a pivotal moment in the history of Christianity (both Catholic and Protestant). I'm sure other religions have similar moments. I would imagine to suggest that Mohammed did not receive divine revelation from Allah, but rather was just the first person to discover Monotheism, would be offensive to muslims.

That said, generic religions don't have to be boring ones, nor one's that are completely dissassociated with today's religions. Civ is about gameplay, not historical accuracy. You can replace Christianity, Islam, etc. with the "generic" religions of Monotheism, Polytheism, Hedonism, Sciencism, etc. Add cultural modifers in front of them, and you can definitely associate them with the religious movements you want to or keep distance from them if you want to. European Monotheism could represent Catholicism or Protestantism in your mind, without offending any Catholics or Protestants. Asian Polytheism could be Hinduism, and so forth. You get as much mental recognition as you want, without upsetting anyone by saying that their relgion is represented by traits/actions they don't like. After all, the Hinduism of Gandi doesn't necessarily represent all Hindus.

For added complexity, under certain conditions, you could even have multiples of these groups. Under normal conditions, being of the same religion would help diplomatic relations with another civ. But let's say you and this other civ have been pissing each off for a long time. Their religion could split off from your, creating even more tension, mimicking, say, the Protestant/Catholic split (I realize my example have been very Europe/Christianity heavy... this is simply a result of my familiarity with them, making me feel more qualified not to screw up when discussing them). The result would be even worse diplomatic relations, and each religion named for the civ that it's associated with.

Even better is generic religions could add to gameplay. Right now, all religions are the same, because Firaxis doesn't want to offend anyone. Make the religions generic, and you no longer have to worry about that. Give the Sciencism folks higher scientific output, but temples and cathedrals give no benefit. Monotheism could get more content citizens per city or improvement, while Polytheism would be allowed to build multiple religious buildings per city, with additional benefits per improvement and Hedonism more likely to convert other religions than any other. There'd have to be some balancing to make sure no religion was flat out "better", but you can see how this would add another level of gameplay and intracy, improving the game, while not offending anyone, allowing folks to make what historical connections they want without forcing any on anyone.
 
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