A Dutch Civ?

[southafrica]

Hell i want a Dutch civ

UU be some cool naval unit, Civ4 dun seem to have UU naval units, but on the otherhand i find naval units a bit...useless. Havent found them needed in any game i played so far.

There are lotsa famous dutch scientists, engineers and artists. Atlough a good wonder would rather be the Delta Plans, +1food from irrigation and no unhealtyness from Floodplains, or something. Or the "Verdonk Foreign Pollicy! All territory is 100% Dutch.

And i find Creative and Commercial a very good idea for dutch civ traiths. Favering the Religious Freedom civic. Guess it matches most since Holland had a very early acceptence to various religions.

Well, since there is relatively no focus on naval units, a privateer would be fantastic, as it would force players to say "damn there are dutch have to get a navy to defend my sea resources... pirating at its best...

 

[lawine]

yeah but in multiplayer everyone would know it was the dutch anyway, unless all civs have a privateer and the dutch one is just better.

 

[magritte]

Well, certainly the Dutch nation was very important historically, as was Portugal. However, to my mind it's questionable whether all the different European countries really represent distinct civilizations. The French and Spanish are really just Romanized Celts and the English a mix of the same with Germans.

 

[southafrica]

yeah but in multiplayer everyone would know it was the dutch anyway, unless all civs have a privateer and the dutch one is just better.

True, just make have it a bit more movement than the others. Like a royal sloop (like Pirates!) It should be easy enough, perhaps someone can even mod it.

 

[lawine]

Well, certainly the Dutch nation was very important historically, as was Portugal. However, to my mind it's questionable whether all the different European countries really represent distinct civilizations. The French and Spanish are really just Romanized Celts and the English a mix of the same with Germans.

well, yes, actually they do represent distinct civilizations, first of all religion was a major divide (yes they were all christian, but protestantism and catholicism and such were very much opposed to one another), the netherlands in that time was a republic, while the other countries were dictatorial monarchies for instance, they all had distinct views on things.

also to just not include a historically highly important civilization because there's allready so many european ones smacks of political correctness nonsense to me.

i mean, i doubt most people have even heard of mali for example, they were clearly put in mostly as a cultural diversity thing. Is it europe's fault we've had more important civlizations than anyone else?

 

[logical_psycho]

I'm sure we can expect a Dutch Civ in the expansion pack, just like we saw with CivIII, including the new Seafaring trait.


I'm sure they didn't include everyone they could think of because that would eliminate the need of even creating an expansion pack.


Of course Bakellende shouldn't be the leader in the game. It would be a cheap solution though, they just have to email Electronic Arts for the character model of Harry Potter and they're done with it. I was thinking about a Willem van Oranje though.

 

[ngin]

i wish i could build verdonk as a "great" person....id sent her fat nazi ass to enemy borders to die...and ill be laughing all the way

-edit-eeuuhh...maybe this is not so appropriate since i found out she DID get shot at today (didnt got hit)...just heard it on the news.
well atleast im kiddin with my post...id sure as hell dont wanna see her get shot irl...but i do like to see her out of parlement.

 

[logical_psycho]

Well, certainly the Dutch nation was very important historically, as was Portugal. However, to my mind it's questionable whether all the different European countries really represent distinct civilizations. The French and Spanish are really just Romanized Celts and the English a mix of the same with Germans.

I guess you're right in a way.




Maybe an idea for Civ5. Starting out as "celts", "native americans", "africans" and then later see that your nation divides into different nations. I don't know how that should be modelled in the game though, because "celts" or "germans" didn't start as one nation, just a collection of different tribes. With the current state of the game the Dutch have to be in though.


The way you think also "Americans" shouldn't be in the game as a civilization, since the vast majority of Americans are also originating from Celts (whites), Germans (whites), Romans (latinos) and Africans (african Americans) and Asians (.... asians).

 

[Eisernes]

I'd like to see them just because I was always the dutch in civ 3. I loved their special unit because it came at just the right time and gave me the entire medival age to pick when my golden age started.

 

[logical_psycho]

i wish i could build verdonk as a "great" person....id sent her fat nazi ass to enemy borders to die...and ill be laughing all the way

Wow, you're funny. She isn't a nazi, she was elected to do the work people want her to do, which she does. I guess you're a nazi as well, since you're part of the country who voted her in.

 

[southafrica]

Romans (latinos)

? Latinos are descendants of the mixing of Spanish and Indian People.

 

[ngin]

the fact that i disagree with a leading nazi in my country makes me anything but a nazi (you stupid or what?)...but ofcourse she not a real nazi..thats just strong lanquage.

 

[magritte]

Logical psycho, you got me thinking. One thing I've always felt was missing from Civ was real revolts. Wouldn't it be interesting if cities that were far from your capital had a slight chance of acquiring a distinct culture/ethnicity of their own, which might then bleed into neighboring cities? When they reached a certain critical mass, they could declare independence and form a new Civ. That way we could start the game with all ancient civs, but allow the later civs to appear. It's a Civ 5 idea, but I think it could be intriguing.

The whole one civilization = one nation approach of Civ has always bothered me, because really only one civilization in history (China) has persisted as a single nation over a long period of time. And even it wasn't continuous. The Roman Empire is gone, but Roman civilization is still very much with us.

And yes, you're correct. I wouldn't have put the U.S. in as a civ either. I have a real hard time calling something a distinct civilization that doesn't even have a unique language.

 

[southafrica]

Logical psycho, you got me thinking. One thing I've always felt was missing from Civ was real revolts. Wouldn't it be interesting if cities that were far from your capital had a slight chance of acquiring a distinct culture/ethnicity of their own, which might then bleed into neighboring cities? When they reached a certain critical mass, they could declare independence and form a new Civ. That way we could start the game with all ancient civs, but allow the later civs to appear. It's a Civ 5 idea, but I think it could be intriguing.

The whole one civilization = one nation approach of Civ has always bothered me, because really only one civilization in history (China) has persisted as a single nation over a long period of time. And even it wasn't continuous. The Roman Empire is gone, but Roman civilization is still very much with us.

And yes, you're correct. I wouldn't have put the U.S. in as a civ either. I have a real hard time calling something a distinct civilization that doesn't even have a unique language.

Please don't hijack this thread, this is about the Dutch as a Civ.

 

[ngin]

i think thats a really good idea...it would make for more interseting gameplay aswell..maybe cities on your borders can have unique units..or a different research tree.
in some remeberable game i played with civ3 i had a empire on land and far away a city alone on a island...i always imagined when playing they had their own culture and stuff apart from my main empire..it would be coul to see it actually happen.

also id really like to see different research trees from wich you can pick...and once you chosen your path theres not turning back so each civ would have different improvements, units and stuff..this would make you wanna trade that one tech u like..or you can choose to keep a tech to yourself by not trading with other civs.
ofcourse this would have to be nicly balanced where all research trees are equall in strenght, but more specialized on what you want to do.

they had this in some game i cant remeber..imperium galactica maybe?

 

[Arrandir]

Only if Roy Makaay and his big nose appears.

 

[MeteorPunch]

Yes. Dutch are some good Civ 3 players. They practically designed the entire game around the fact that a nation can be small, yet productive.

 

[AceChilla]

the fact that i disagree with a leading nazi in my country makes me anything but a nazi (you stupid or what?)...but ofcourse she not a real nazi..thats just strong lanquage.

Please can you give the woman a break. Look what she has to go to because of haters like you....

She doesn't have a normal live, 24/7 bodyguards, gets spat on, shot at. How long will she have to deal with this kinda live, the next 20 years? Please show at least a smallest form of respect for a member of your own governement. Why is this hateculture now in our country, can't we deal with issues like adults?

Anyway. The Dutch as a civ, that would be cool. The wonders mentioned here could work. And historically we've done some important contributions to the world.

I hope were going to be in a patch, or at least an expension pack.

 

[maartena]

I posted this in another thread, I tried to be as complete as possible.

I am, however, not in the position (timewise) and certainly not able graphicwise to put it into a project.

But if anyone wants to take a shot at it, here's some info:


Official Name: The Kingdom of The Netherlands
Short Official Name: The Netherlands
Adjective: Dutch



First Leader.
Name: William of Orange. (Willem van Oranje)
History: First "stadhouder" (Stadtholder) and founder of the Dutch Republic uniting 7 provinces. He was murdered in his home in 1584. He is considered the founder of the modern Dutch state, and the first monarch of the Netherlands although he wasn't a king. His ancestry became the Dutch royal family.
Stats: Financial, Organized
Govt: Favors Heredtary Rule

Picture of William: http://4umi.com/image/people/Willem_van_Oranje.jpg

Second Leader.
Name: Wilhelmina of Orange-Nassau (Wilhelmina van Oranje-Nassau)
History: Queen of The Netherlands - 1890 - 1948. Became Queen at age 11, and served till she was sure that The Netherlands had free elections once again after World War 2. She gave weekly radio adresses from England during the Nazi occupation of The Netherlands. She also played an important role in keeping The Netherlands neutral during World War 1.
Stats: Financial, Industrious
Govt: Favors Representation.

Picture of Wilhelmina: http://www.greatwar.nl/draad/wilhelmina.jpg

Capital : Amsterdam

Flag : Three horizontal banners equal in size of red, white and blue.

Color : Orange (National Color)

Starting Techs : Fishing, Agriculture, Sailing.

Great Persons:

There are 5 Great persons in each category. I can probably dig through history a bit more to find more, but I think 5 per category should work.

Great Scientists:
Jacobus Cornelius Kapteyn - Astronomer
Jan Hendrik Oort - Astronomer, discovered the Oort Cloud.
Desiderius Erasmus - Scientist and Philosopher
Christiaan Huygens - Atronomer, discovered the rings of Saturn.
Anton van Leeuwenhoek - Biologist, discovered bacteria.

Great Merchants:
Pieter Both - Merchant & Governor General for the VOC in East Asia, 1619
Adriaen Block - Merchant trading in the Hudson Bay in the 16th century.
Pieter van den Broeck - Discoverer and Merchant, East Africa and Asia.
Jacob van Heemskerck - Famous merchant that sailed on Asia.
Johan van Oldebarnevelt - One of the founders of the VOC.

Great Prophets:
Servatius - One of the first to spread Christianity to The Neterlands around 350
Bonifatius - Missionary, killed in 754 in Friesland
Willibrord - Bishop, first Bishop of Utrecht in 695
Benedictus Spinoza - Philosopher of the 17th century
Isaac Beeckman - Philosopher of the 16th century

Great Artists:
Rembrandt van Rijn - Painter
Vincent van Gogh - Painter
Joost van den Vondel - Poet
Constantijn Huygens - Writer
Jan Steen - Painter

Great Engineers:
Jan Adriaanszoon Leeghwater - Architect of landreclaiming in the 17th century
Cornelis Lely - Architect of the "Zuiderzeewerken", a land reclaiming project.
Jacob van Campen - Architect of the Royal Palace in Amsterdam.
Hendrik Petrus Berlage - Architect of the late 19th and early 20th century.
Johan van Veen - First architect of the Deltaworks.

Military Heroes: (I am not sure if these are usefull in Civ 4)
Maarten Hartperszoon Tromp - 17th century Admiral
Michiel de Ruyter - 17th century Admiral
Piet Heyn - Privateer in the early 17th century
Bernhard van Lippe-Biesterfeld - Prince, Commander of the Free Dutch Forces in WW 2.
Nicolaes Ruychaver - Leader of the "Geuzen", resistance movement against the Spanish occupation.





Unique Unit:
Name: VOC Galleon
Stats: Move 5 tiles, Carry 4 units (normal Galleon is 4/3)
History: The VOC Galleon represents the Golden Age of The Netherlands, the 17th century, when the worlds first cooperation VOC (East India Company) operated traderoutes all over the globe and had perfected their ships to carry as much goods possible at the fastest speed possible at the lowest cost possible. The VOC Galleon becomes obsolete with the arrival of the Transport.

Cities :

Amsterdam
Rotterdam
Den Haag
Utrecht
Haarlem
Leiden
Delft
Gouda
Den Bosch
Amersfoort
Zwolle
Maastricht
Eindhoven
Leeuwarden
Groningen
Arnhem
Deventer
Breda
Nijmegen
Hilversum
Tilburg
Alkmaar
Middelburg
Venlo
Enschede
Assen
Vlissingen
Apeldoorn
Emmen
Zutphen
Harlingen
Den Helder
Hoorn
Hoek van Holland
Heerlen
Hoogeveen
Drachten
Goes
Delfzijl
Zoetermeer
Emmeloord
Lelystad
Nieuwegein
Almere
Dronten


I am not too good with all this XML stuf, but please someone use all of this information and work it out

 

[logical_psycho]

Looks like a good list.... the only error I found is Rembrandt van Rhijn... it's van Rijn, without the h. Even my hometown is in your list.