A few questions on electricity and pollution

[Mango201]

I'm shooting for a diplomatic victory. I'd like to have coal power plants for the adjacency bonus (I have several industrial zones with 7-9 adjacency) but I don't want to suffer the diplomatic favor penalty for polluting too much.

So a few questions:

1. Can I benefit from coal power production bonus even if they are not generating electricity? Say because I also have hydro dams? My understanding is that electricity draws preferentially from clean sources - so as long as I am careful not to have greater power demands than my damns supply I should be ok correct? Or does it not work that way - perhaps the coal power plant only generates its production bonus when it is also converting coal to electricity?
2. I was reading a guide to diplomatic victory that suggested that it is in fact good to pollute because this will trigger emergencies which can be won for diplomatic victory points. That said this guide was a few years old, and perhaps the diplomatic favor penalty for polluting was smaller back than. What's the latest thinking on this approach? Does it make sense to pollute to trigger emergencies? For context, I do have a huge advantage in diplomatic favor - I'm generating over 20 per turn - other players (this is a multiplayer game) don't seem to have invested in this at all and are generating maybe 3-4 favor per turn.
3. Later in the game, as tier 3 buildings become available I'll probably have no choice but to pollute a little. Has anyone worked out the exact formula for the diplomatic favor penalty for pollution? This would also answer question 2 but I'm posing them as separate questions so I can get an answer to 2 even if the answer to 3 is unknown.

Thanks!

 

[KingPiggyXXI]

1. Yep, the Production from Power Plants doesn't actually require you to be using the Power Plant.
2. I am quite sure that the diplomatic penalty for pollution is still the same. As such, polluting the world is still a valid strategy, although I do believe that emergencies are now less frequent. In addition to triggering more emergencies, building Power Plants to create pollution will also give you several Industrial Zones, allowing you to start spamming the project once you research Global Warming Mitigation.
Usually, pollution the world is a good idea in singleplayer games because you don't really need Diplomatic Favor to win World Congress, because the AI is fairly predictable. Essentially, you are trading away some of your Diplomatic Favor income to make it easier to get Emergencies, which will, in turn, make it easier to get Diplomatic Victory Points.
However, if you're playing in multiplayer, polluting for emergencies may be less useful. Human players will vote much less predictably, so the World Congress Victory Points aren't as guaranteed as in singleplayer. As such, every point of Diplomatic Favor will count, and it may be worth it to avoid pollution for a little bit more Diplomatic Favor.
3. The Diplomatic Favor penalty is based on how much pollution you're emitting compared to the world average - as such, if everybody else is also creating a lot of pollution, the Diplomatic Favor penalty will be lower. According to the wiki, you'll be getting -1 Diplomatic Favor for every three pollution points higher than the average, up to a maximum of -20 Diplomatic Favor.

 

[Mango201]

Very helpful thanks!

What Wiki are you looking at that shows that formula?

According to the fandom Wiki, coal and oil generate 3.28 and 1.96 points of CO2 respectively. I'm the first of 5 players in my game to start polluting so the global average is 0 right now.

So if I'm understanding you, suppose I burn one unit of coal, I'll be generating 3.28 points of CO2, and the global average will shift from 0 to 0.65 (i.e. 3.28/5), and I'll be polluting at roughly 2.6 above the average.

Similarly if burn 2 units, I'll be generating 7.56 points of CO2, and the global average will shift from 0 to 1.5 (i.e. 7.56/5), and I'll be polluting at roughly 6 above the average.

And since the penalty is -1 DF per 3 CO2 above the average my penalty will be -1 DF in the first instance (assuming the game rounds up), and -2 DF in the second.

Did I understand correctly?

 

[MrRadar]

Go for Monarchy and build Renaissance Walls everywhere. +2 DF per RW. You will never have to worry about pollution penalties again.
If you go for religion, pick Pagodas for t3 HS buildings. +1DF per Pagoda. Burn all the coal you can lay your hands on.
And when you reach 15/20 DV points, don't even dream voting for yourself, always vote with 1 free vote against yourself. Unless nobody else have any considerable DF points.
Finish it off by building the Statue of Liberty which will hang out there waiting for you until the end of time (even on Deity AI is super rare to build it), or by winning some odd Aid Emergency.

 

[Mango201]

Go for Monarchy and build Renaissance Walls everywhere. +2 DF per RW. You will never have to worry about pollution penalties again.
If you go for religion, pick Pagodas for t3 HS buildings. +1DF per Pagoda. Burn all the coal you can lay your hands on.
And when you reach 15/20 DV points, don't even dream voting for yourself, always vote with 1 free vote against yourself. Unless nobody else have any considerable DF points.

Thanks. As I mentioned in the OP I'm already at +20 DF (using exactly the approach you suggested).

even on Deity AI is super rare to build it

Also, per the OP, this is a multiplayer game.

 

[MrRadar]

Also, per the OP, this is a multiplayer game.

Woops, my mistake, blanked out on these parts entirely

Then polluting more to trigger emergencies would not even make much sense. I mean, usually it is up to the player who suffered a natural disaster to call an emergency session by paying 30 DF (on standard), if given such an opportunity, and expecting for it to pass. The player must realize that the winner will get 2 DV points. Would others even call such a session if they keep an eye on the victory tabs? And would the caller really expect other players to give them money??

Out of interest, how many opponents do you have and what is the map size?

 

[Mango201]

5 players inc me. Small continents map. Online speed.

 

[sethjohnson]

Pollution is quite manageable - build the biosphere and a city with a hydro dam won't need any extra renewables. If you have Cardiff in your game it boosts the power Cardiff gives to your harbours too

Plus geothermal fissures seem to be more common now

I had a game recently where i was pretty much fully industrialised with tier 3 buildings and had hardly polluted at all before i'd even unlocked wind and solar