A Full list of Fast Units of Medevial and Stone ages plus their grades.

[Alvin]

"The art of Blitzkreg in any age shall not be easy," Adolf Hitler
Think about it, the fast pase of an war combained with sucessful strategy can conquer the world. My strategy is very simple. This is for the Stone and Medevial Age.
1. Get enough fast troops by the enemy border to do enough damage(don't very about Artys, they are useless in my strategy). Mass them in separate spots. The AI might attack first, if you are playing on harder levels. Then, you are doomed.
2. make sure roads are connected to the city you are attacking(I explain that later).
3. have substantial amount of cities producing Attacking/defense units.
4. Have enough defensive troops to guard the cities you conquer.
5. Attack fast and quick. Usually I attack with 20-60 Horseman/knights/cavarlys with 20-40 spearman/pikeman/musketman.
6. use the enemy's road efficently. If they don't have any roads, raze cities and get slaves to build the roads that you need.
7. Try to avoid moutains and forests while you're attacking(you can use the Keshiks to move through mountain)
8. here is a list of the fast units during the medevial and stone age, and I gave it a grade.

Chinese-Riders, the best of all ages, having 3 movements, they can murder all kind of units in seconds. They also cause gold ages!A+
Japaness- Their samurais are pretty good, but I thought they should increase the attack instead of the extra defense point. I thought the graphics are pretty good. A
The Knight- It's just the average mast moving unit that is very balanced out. A-
The Iroquois Mounted Warroirs- With an extra attack, they rule in the stone age, unless you have the celts stupid Gallic Swordsman.
A-
Gallic Swordsman- Is basically the most stupid thing I ever heard. You mean these guys held out the Romans for 30 days in the Hellthplion cross? with only 300 guys. I don't believe this. I dhoud give this an F but It has really good attack.B+
Arabs-Their Anasar Warrior is pretty good in attack, but as I played in a few games as the Arabs. They stink at the defense.B
Egyptions-What do they need their things for? dunno so stupid you have to spend 20 gold upgrading these things to horse man?
How long do they last?B-
The Aztecs- Their jaguar warrors are for scouting but not for fighting..... not good. C+
Cossacks- Honstely, why do they need another defense? Even Knights could kill them.C
Ottmans-Siphias, I didn't beleve they took over the hole Mid-Eastern world with these crap things. Who needs them? with an extra attack, the only things they could do.
Keshikes- I didn't bleive that the mongols took over half of the world wiht this thing. They could travel across moutains as if they were grass land, really? and they cut off an extra defense point. Nobody likes these.D
Cavarly- Dumb, stupid..... Nothing to these thing crap things....
D-
Horseman-Same thing as the cavarly, I wondered if the French took over the roman empire with these things?F
This will be continued to the Industrail age and the Mordern age...

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[taper]

I'm going to disagree with you a little bit on some of the rankings. I don't have PTW yet, so I'll leave those alone, but cavalry are a huge influence on all my games, they are my main attack force for almost an entire age, until tanks come along. I'd give them much better than a D-

I almost never use knights, or any knight UU. I don't remember the last time I researched chivalry. Low grade from disuse.

 

[Sirp]

Both cavalry and knights are good. I don't see what your problem with gallic swordsmen is. They are the most powerful fighting unit in the ancient age.

Why would you play 20 gold to upgrade war chariots to horsemen? (unless you're surrounded by lots and lots of mountains and/or jungle) War chariots have as good stats as horsemen and come in much cheaper. Horsemen are also good units because you can build them so early.

Jaguar warriors are one of the best unique units in the game. You can build them from the word go, and they are very cheap. Three Jags are better value than an equivalently priced horseman, yet are the same price and can be built earlier. Also, your basic strategy is a bit uhmm...obvious. If I can get 20-60 fast attack units mustered, I can run over all my rivals too. It's getting them together before they're obsolete that's the hard part.

-Sirp.

 

[Hygro]

Sirp you basically said what I wanted to say (getting THAT many units takes way to long).

Alvin, you will notice most players rave about the Gallic swordsman and the Sipahi. The swordsmen are great defenders (same as spearmen plus make fast units unable to retreat), plus have lots of movement and attack to boot. The cost offsets this, however they don't die to much so they last forever.

Sipahis are POWERFUL. Their extra 2 attack makes them the most powerful offensive power until the tank, which is an age away. Since they now have an obvious advantage over musketmen and even stand a fair chance against riflemen, I say these are possible the best unit there is.

 

[TerraHero]

not too mention u're tactc is based on stone and medieval....as soon as Infantery sprout (i get them as fast as possible). They can brake entire charges, saying abot 5 Cavalry per Infantery...give them an Defence bonus and there unstopable..so u forgot too mention this tactic will only work for a rather shot timw span (considering u need too build em)..and keep an headstart on Tech

 

[Aggie]

Grading the Sipahi as almost useless? I want to play against you in a PBEM and I'm the Ottomans

By the way: they have an attack bonus of two -not one-, meaning 8/3/3, meaning stronger than the best defense until infantry. Meaning even with infantry you are a brute force if you combine it Sipahi with artillery.

 

[anarres]

Well Sip, Hygro and Aggie have made some good points.

Another one is what if you are going to use mounted units in a warmongering style, you should use the whole upgrade chain. This way you start on chariots (or the equivalent UU), then to Horsemen (or the UU), then to Knights (or the UU), then to Cavalry (or the UU). The idea is to build your army over time, upgrading when you get the needed tech.

It does make more sense to compare the fast UU's since choosing the civ is about the only real choice to make. I definitly agree that the Chinese Riders are the best mounted UU, the extra move is an amazing bonus for no extra gold. Since you are militaristic there is more chance of leaders (and so armies), and since armies can blitz, you get move 3 armies with up to 3 attacks. Also, you can get to many more AI cities in 1 turn.

The Sipahi are my next favourite, the extra attack is very useful, and even though the price hurts it is worth every shield. The GA is timed a little late for my likings, but I can live with it.

Gallic Swordsmen have to come third. They cost a pretty penny, but are the best ancient age UU of them all. As good attack as any, as good a defense as any, and topped of with a 2 move. You have less of them, but they live much longer.

Jaguar Warriors are very good units stats wise. Sometimes you can wait for a government change, but other times you get drawn in to wars that you either have to fight with non-mounted units (can't even use horsemen), or take the early GA. With only 5 or 6 cities and a despotic government the GA is a real washout.

War Chariots are good for gambit games, attack early and fast. It can be a risky strategy, and if you start far from opponents you effectly lost the UU advantage, since they are obselete before you get the chance to use them. Start next to someone though and war chariots are your best friend.

The UU's with lessened defense are a trade off. You save 10 shields, so get more units, but more also die. Overall, I'd rather have the defense point thanks.

Keshek seem to be tailored for certain maps (like the beserkers), and since I never know the map I tend not to use these UU's very much.

 

[Gunnar Thor]

Originally posted by Alvin
You mean these guys held out the Romans for 30 days in the Hellthplion cross? with only 300 guys. I don't believe this.

I think you mean Spartans and Persians, bud.

 

[lord42]

A blitz kreig works best with clavery due to thier speed of 3. I can pull one in democracy with 4 groups of 6 calvery with prestart supply lines.
Explaination: prestart supply lines: When the core is undergoing constant calvery production prewar and during the war more troops are on the way but are not on the border. These troops arrive just after the first wave hits. Thus they can move further in as the wounder first wave hits. Then with constant (although small) reinforcements your troops can retreat and heal.
Eventually this builds your troop numbers as it devestates thiers.
Just remember to send teams to take out defensive reasources like saltpeter and horses to prevent retaliation.

Personally i do this with the greeks as their uu is not offensive and thier attributes allow me to tech rush to calvery while the opponent only has pikes and spears.

 

[Alvin]

Originally posted by Sirp
Both cavalry and knights are good. I don't see what your problem with gallic swordsmen is. They are the most powerful fighting unit in the ancient age.

Why would you play 20 gold to upgrade war chariots to horsemen? (unless you're surrounded by lots and lots of mountains and/or jungle) War chariots have as good stats as horsemen and come in much cheaper. Horsemen are also good units because you can build them so early.

Jaguar warriors are one of the best unique units in the game. You can build them from the word go, and they are very cheap. Three Jags are better value than an equivalently priced horseman, yet are the same price and can be built earlier. Also, your basic strategy is a bit uhmm...obvious. If I can get 20-60 fast attack units mustered, I can run over all my rivals too. It's getting them together before they're obsolete that's the hard part.

-Sirp.

I must not agreee with you on Jaguar Warror part. They have 1/1/2 and you spent the same on it. I rather build some Gallic Sowrdsman than 100 jagur warrors. But they do upgrade all the way to Gurlliaes... Which I don't use alot. Do I?

 

[Hygro]

some meaning how many?

 

[Uncle Dynamite]

Yeah, Thor has it right, it was the Spartans and Persians, since the Celts probably had no idea what the Hellthopian cross was...

Anyway, you're right about the power of the Blitzkrieg (aber ich bin sehr traurig, dass du Hitler zitierest ), but from personal experience, "blitzs" up until the Industrial Ages are costly and offensively weak (I'm writing from a Monarch perspective). If you don't want to have your fast units slaughtered on, as you say, higher levels, you're essentially obligated to support them with spearmen/pikemen/musketmen. And they only have 1 movement point, lending them a paltry 1 movement in enemy territory and 3 movement on friendly roads. Thus, while moving your armies, you'll find that conquering cities will still procede at a slower, but nonetheless steady pace.

Of course, you could attack the city outright with just fast units and move in the defensive units after the takeover, but this lends itself to some problems:

1) If you fail to take the city, your fast horse units are left exposed and possibly out of reach from defensive troops, allowing the AI to slaughter them.

2) Even if you do take the city, you'll probably have lost units in the assault, possibly a great many in higher levels (as TerraHero mentions, Infantry will hit you hard, and riflemen for that matter too). In any case, the AI either eliminate or maim your attacking force, slowing down whatever momentum your Blitz did indeed acquire.

Of course, I'm writing from a Monarch level, so a straightfoward tactic of pure fast horse units will work well in lower levels, but won't as much in higher levels where the AI will have defensive units on par or over your offensive units technologically, posing significant problems in terms of casualties.

While you say that artillery units are useless, I would have to reply in the negative. The tactic of massing large amounts of artillery, offensive, and defensive units is widely accepted as the tactic of choice for many high-level players, simply because when done well, casualties are minimal, even while fighting a technologically and numerically superior force. Use the artillery to soften up the garrison until they are all redlined, use offensive units to capture with (usually) 0 deaths of their own, use defenders to war off counterattacks in captured cities and your new position. Moonsinger has an excellent article about this.

I'd say that the best unit for a "true" blitz would be the unit that started it all: tanks. With their excellent attack and defense values, they can cut into weak spots along the enemy border, strike a poor target, and remain in hostile areas while retaining a good chance at surviving a counterattack. But since this won't come along until the industrial ages, your best bet is too use catapults/cannons/artillery in large quantities. A large, compact, attack executed with patience, steadiness, and order will prevail over an attack done hastily and recklessly with many casualties.

Okay, I'll stop sounding like Sun Tzu over here. I'd just like to say that the Jaguar Rush is very powerful. Look at sites like Zachriel's for screenshots demonstrating this. And I'd think that most players would agree that swordsmen would probably be THE best all-around Ancient unit if it just had 2 movement, and here it is, the Gallic Swordsmen. It's expensive, yes, but I don't understand how a 2 move, 3 attack, 2 defensive unit could not at least be a force to contend with.

And I'd also like to know why you hate Cavalry and Siphi? I mean, this is the first time I heard this, partly because they're your only really good offensive units. Onless you're attacking Riflemen with Knights. If covered properly with defenders, they really have no weakness, and their 6 attack (and the Siphi's 8 ) will not only kick your enemies in the jaw, but probably shoot them all dead too...

Anyway, while I apologize for perhaps ripping your strategy around too much, I just think that a more comprehensive tactic augmented with artillery will save you expensive costs in repairing a severly damaged army.

Uncle Dynamite

 

[Hygro]

Uncle Dynamite, great analysis as usual, however I want to point out one thing: Knights have the best defensive values for their time, thus they don't need support.

 

[Uncle Dynamite]

Point well taken, Hygro. Thanks.

 

[Sirp]

Originally posted by Alvin

I must not agreee with you on Jaguar Warror part. They have 1/1/2 and you spent the same on it. I rather build some Gallic Sowrdsman than 100 jagur warrors. But they do upgrade all the way to Gurlliaes... Which I don't use alot. Do I?

Ok, let's say you're trying to take a city on flat land which is defended by two regular spearmen - a fairly normal number for a city to be defended by early in the game.

According to Zachriel's Battle Simulator two veteran Gallic swordsmen would have around a 45% chance of taking the city, with each swordsman having an 80% or so chance of surviving the battle.

10 Jaguar warriors cost the same as two veteran Gallics swordsmen, and yet would have over 95% chance of winning, and each warrior would have just under 80% chance of surviving the battle.

Heck, even 5 Jaguar warriors would have more of a chance of winning the battle (just over 50%) than 2 Gallic swordsmen (although they would have a lower survival rate).

You have to have 3 Gallics to have a strong chance of winning (around 80%), but even 12 Jags have over 99% chance of winning.

And yes, I know that building Jags is generally going to involve some waste, since e.g. a city producing 6 shields per turn is going to waste 2 shields for every Jag produced, while the wastage for a Gallic will be far less, however this wastage can be offset by even small cities being able to build Jags, while a city producing less than 5 shields per turn will take ages to build a single Gallic.

The wastage isn't that much though, and can be micromanaged around, and even if you give Jags a 20% penalty (i.e. 4 Jags = 1 Gallic instead of 5), the Jags still perform much, much better.

Also, Jags do start to hurt with unit support costs under Republic, but they also become available earlier.

-Sirp.

 

[Alvin]

Well, if Jagur Warriors attack the city with the 2 regular spearman in the flatlands, the spearman have a better chance of getting an upgrade which means that the jaguar warriors havea less chance of winning thenthe Gallic Swords Man

 

[amirsan]

I think Gallic Swordsman arent the best unit as well, its just another Mounted Warrior from the Iroqouis. I think the horsemans are quite affective as well, build about 40 before chivalry and uprgrade them all for about 1600 gold. Yould have the largest military. Even if your a builder it is always to have a good military to hold of those Emperor and Diety hords of AI military cutting throh your land.

 

[Sirp]

Originally posted by Alvin
Well, if Jagur Warriors attack the city with the 2 regular spearman in the flatlands, the spearman have a better chance of getting an upgrade which means that the jaguar warriors havea less chance of winning thenthe Gallic Swords Man

The chances of winning I quoted took upgrades into account. They were for attacking a non-militaristic civ, but even if the civ is militaristic, the jaguar warriors still have a much higher chance of winning than equivalent shield-cost gallic swordsmen.

-Sirp.

 

[Greyhawk1]

Sipahi are the masters of all they survey :worshp:

These units are serious civ killers. I always give the Otto's a very wide berth if they have Sipahi.

I like Conquistadors as well. I know they are dumb in that it stops the Spanish having Scouts and they come so late its pointless having them as scouts....but, they are the worlds best pillagers!

In my last game playing the Spanish I denied the Vikings all their Strat resources in 1 turn using an army of Conquistadors

Why do you diss Cavalry?? They are the backbone of my army come the mid-part of the game. They remain effective right up to Nationalism. Sometimes they can even tip the scales when Infantry start appearing although they really need Artillery support to be effective against Infantry.

The lowly Scout is a great unit as well. So cheap its silly yet you can zip about and pop all those nice goody huts faster than anyone else and deny resources in Neutral squares from day one.

My favourite unit though is the Knight (see Avatar). They look cool, have 2 movement and with Medieval Infantry really give the game a 'crusades' feel. Plus it tallies with my playing AD&D too

 

[anarres]

Geryhawk1, if you like Knights so much then why is't the Chinese Rider your favourite unit? It is like a knight but with an extra movement, surely this is the best?