A good starting plan...

[Dexter]

I've noticed that reading some peoples posts the different things folk do to begin the game.

Personally I find my city right on the spot and begin by building a defensive unit then an unit which can search the land. I then begin developing city improvements and so forth.

But I've decided to change that plan:
Found my city, then build a defensive unit. Then when the city size is 2 build a settler and begin developing the land and founding a second city.

What do you think about my new starting strategy? And please post down what you like to begin your game with.

Thanx

 

[Mozenwrath]

I think that sounds like a pretty good plan. You can never pay too much attention to your capital eh? However, both of your strategies are not really suited to my tastes... I don't always keep to one strategy but i usually build my capital as soon as i start then build; a settler and found a new city nearby. Then a defensive unit, another settler and another defensive unit. I then go on to a wonder (usually pyramids) and start on improvements. What does neone think?

 

[Dexter]

Sounds good but personally I prefer to defend first, my fear is that someone will appear and defeat you before you can prevent it.

 

[shadowdale]

Well I too found the city on the first spot, and build a defensive unite. But my settler doesn't start to irrigate the land or build roads - he goes out and builds a new city - and I keep building settlers until it take to long for him to get to a place where I can build a new city (I build number two before number one gets there) then the last settler starts to irrigate and roadbuilding. And then the city starts to build caravans and when the city has three trade routs I build a temple and a marketplace - then comes the aquaduct, bank, colossum - and by now I should build a libary or a factory, depends on what tech level I ahve reached.

 

[Sevorak]

After reading about the disgustingly fast starts in the GOTM forum, and asking about a good start right here in this forum, my starting strategy now involves building nothing but settlers, a wonder or two, and PRB'ing temples until I build Mike's. Whatever army I get comes from huts. I usually end up with 12-15 cities by 2400 BC at the latest.

-Sev

 

[floppa21]

I do same as Sev, I'll build my main "core" of cities, usually 15, (that's what I like anyways...) or less if I start on a island/small continent. Settlers only until I have my main cities and then more settlers to netword roads and start irrigation and such. Most likely have a couple units from huts out and about exploring if it is NOT an island, but then poppin huts can be bad if I get an advanced city far from my core. I like staying neat and compact to start out, at least until I have defensive units, and I don't build those until after I have temples and marketplaces first. But then, I am one of those rush to republic, rush to democracy.

(Of course, I'll have designated my SSC, usually one of the 1st five cities built, and workin on colossusthroughout...)

 

[floppa21]

I do same as Sev, I'll build my main "core" of cities, usually 15, (that's what I like anyways...) or less if I start on a island/small continent. Settlers only until I have my main cities and then more settlers to netword roads and start irrigation and such. Most likely have a couple units from huts out and about exploring if it is NOT an island, but then poppin huts can be bad if I get an advanced city far from my core. I like staying neat and compact to start out, at least until I have defensive units, and I don't build those until after I have temples and marketplaces first. But then, I am one of those rush to republic, rush to democracy.

 

[Peteus]

I hear you guys talking about expanding super-fast by building nothing but settlers, but I've gotta ask - what do you do when the barbarians come? (Or the Mongols, for that matter!) Shadowdale, how the heck do you survive without temples, especially on Diety? My people would be very unhappy with me!

What works for me (although I know this isn't the perfect strat, but then there isn't one for all situations!) Is to build immediately if the spot is obviously awesome, otherwise explore a little and build in a better spot. Grassland/river is the perfect terrain to have around your capital, or whichever early city is to become your SuperScienceCity. All resource jellies are nice, but whales may be best in general at the outset, and gold/spice/silk/gems are sweet for the SSC.
I build a warrior (or horseman) first unless I happened to unlock a sweet "None" unit pre-capital. But if I had to move more than a few squares, it's probably time to spin the wheel again and hope for a better location!
Next is a settler, while the other unit scouts for another good starting spot. New cities might produce a settler first (if the resources are balanced so that it will grow before it builds and disbands the city!) or a military unit to use for defense and martial law, then a settler.

I tend to build roads as I expand, developing some precious trade and giving me a hope of defending my frontier should nastiness ensue. I even irrigate sometimes to help key cities grow. OK, I irrigate a lot! Any buffalo, plains on a river, etc, is apt to get the treatment to maximise the potential of those key squares. Now I know that is totally against the principle of Infinite City Sprawl, and that settlers are best used for building cities with no attention to all else. I just can't seem to make my perfectionist self play that way!

As a result, I tend to end up with a few larger cities, with temples and marketplaces, when Shadowdale would have lots of size 2 cities with nothing really to speak for them - except that when he goes to Republic and turns on the We Love the Consul charm, he'll suddenly have lots of size 8 cities, and pass me in population. And his strategy is definitely more "perfect" than mine for most situations - yet I still prefer to play my way. Call me old-fashioned!

 

[Magnus]

Assuming SP play...

I find a good city site (and I will spend many years searching for the right one) and then build settlers and begin researching 'Writing'. Then I pause for a bit and have my cities pump out a few diplomats to go and explore and bribe barbarians who will then defend my new cities. Then I push to get 'Trade' and start pumping caravans into Wonder building cities. Then I get Trade routes going when I have the wonders I want, then build city improvements. After that I become a Republic and grow grow grow.

 

[starlifter]

By Shadowdale:

Well I too found the city on the first spot, and build a defensive unite. But my settler doesn't start to irrigate the land or build roads - he goes out and builds a new city - and I keep building settlers until it take to long for him to get to a place where I can build a new city

In GOTM 6 (Shadowdale), you built your second city on a swamp (the one at the end of the peninsula to the west of your 1st city). Personally, I never build on swamps quite that early, but you are the master of the early game, so I'm starting to consider things like that, even though I've always assumed were silly to do.

For instance in my GOTM 6, I did build on one of the swamps south of Trondheim (about city # 12 or so), because it was in the best location for long-term. But it takes 15 turns for another settler to remove the swamp (I begin swamp removal right after founding the city), and my city grew very slowly in the interim.

Another reason I don't like building on swamps is that it will get you only one food and one shield. No trade. And the new city takes so so so long to make it's replacement settler. I've always assumed science is too valuable in the first few game turns, which is also is why I have never built on a swamp as soon as you do.

Normally, I really prefer to build on grassland (non-shield), or on plains... esp. in the early game. To me, it is just too hard to keep growth going otherwise, esp. in the first 50 to 80 game turns.

I've been working hard on various techniques in the first 100 game turns, which really seems to be where my own personal game lags sadly in comparison, Shadowdale! But I've played about 10 or 11 game variations of GOTM 6's first 100 turns, and have learned a little and improved a bit... but still have a ways to go in achieving your excellence in turns 40 thru 100!!!

Well, I have a secret weapon that I'm just starting to use, LOL... I've begun some mathematical (parametric variations) studies to identify my weak point(s), LOL . Since Civ II is really a game of math and the US Gov't trained me in such stuff in the 1980's, I fleetingly considered using a supercomputer to assist at little bit!! But all the raw data from your games and other people's games must be slowly calculated and added by hand to get started, so it takes time to really get rolling. And since the work is tedious, I only make time for it sporadically ...

So do you pretty much follow a "regimented" early game expansion pattern, or sort of "wing it" as you go along, Shadowdale?

And then the city starts to build caravans and when the city has three trade routs I

Do you deliver your trade caravans to every city? And do you deliver caravans when the city is only size 2 or 3? I generally wait until Republic, and also till my cities are more like 5 or 6. I tend to use mainly 3 route with my SSC at first, since I'm usually in a tight wonder race and need the rest of the caravans for wonders.

I also use my caravans for defense, instead of leaving my outer cities undefended. It seems the computer senses if nothing is in my city, and sends the barbs if I dare leave the city totally undefended, LOL. But if a Freight can hold them off, at worst the barbs offer a ransom. And if I keep a small amount of money on hand, the ransom is always small anyway.

 

[el_kalkylus]

I always build 3-4 warriors and then settlers. Since I always play on diety, I get 2 cities the first 4 turns. 2 warriors lets the people be content, while the other warrior(s) explore(s) the map to find huts. When one hut is found, I hope it will give me a faster unit, a city or a new settler. This way I can get 4-5 cities in a short period of time. I have noticed though that you can't get too many cities, cause that makes your people unhappy so I have to settle with a number. I think you get more unhappy citizens if you make more than 10 cities, but I don't know...it can be the size of your people too. Anyway I wait to build too many cities, and build lots of roads instead (each city has 1 settler to build roads). After this I try to kill some enemies, build wonders etc.
Not really a plan...
I have tried to trade, but that takes so long, and usually you don't have the production to build caravans fast enough (or money). But I will keep trying.

 

[shadowdale]

When you read how my basic strategy is you must remember that my prefered game level is King and not Deity - I don't even like to play Deity, because I usually have to micromanaged my cities to much, on King it's rahter easy.

In a deity game one warrior in the early cities and a rush to get the gardens is usually my main goal, but after I get the republic, which is probably my first goal, then I start using Lux to keep the cities happy.

Starlifter - the fact that I build that city there is only because it was the first spot I found where I could build a city, because that was where my settler went - and in games like the GotM I will build it there, because you need cities, lots of them and you need them ASAP.

As to trade routs, yes, one of my primary goals is to have three trade routs in each and every city I have, and as fast as possible, but this is also because I don't favour my SSC as much as other players do - I build all the needed wonders there but I won't give it a bigger priority than my other cities.

Yes, well I normally use the earlier mentioned patteren, but I never let the chosen pattern rule my game, there must always be room to break the pattern and improvise if the need arises.

Lastly, I never even let my caravans defend my cities - if I lose one or two in the early expansion then what the heck, I can always buy them back, but I don't usually get all that many bars, mainly because after the initial exploring I don't take the huts until they are within a city zone and then they never give barbs.

 

[starlifter]

Anyway I wait to build too many cities, and build lots of roads instead (each city has 1 settler to build roads). After this I try to kill some enemies, build wonders etc. Not really a plan... I have tried to trade, but that takes so long, and usually you don't have the production to build caravans fast enough (or money). But I will keep trying.

Since you are liking to improve your game by comparison, the GOTM may be fun for you. It is here:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2gotm.shtml

In the GOTM Forums, we have discussions. We even post pictures of the game. I usually have a detailed timeline, and it is good to see exactly how my own game goes, to which you can compare your own experience. The game results are posted each month, too. Anyone is free to download the start, and play the game. PS, Be sure and discuss your game in the forum if you play!

 

[starlifter]

As to trade routs, yes, one of my primary goals is to have three trade routs in each and every city I have, and as fast as possible, but this is also because I don't favour my SSC as much as other players do - I build all the needed wonders there but I won't give it a bigger priority than my other cities.

Wow, that is an interesting concept, too. I have always made a set of assumptions, but never really tested them out. I usually delay my trade routes in smaller cities because I get so much more for the same 50 shields later. I'll have to sit down and look at the math, and not just make presumptions!

Right now, I'm an "SSC"-centric type of strategist. Sort of a variation on the OCC-inspired style of play, except that other cities are available (unlike an OCC game). I put tons of money into SSC development real early, and won't even let it build improvements (I PRB most of them), and the rest of the time it is building shields into a "Temporary" wonder that is usually switched later on.

Starlifter - the fact that I build that city there is only because it was the first spot I found where I could build a city, because that was where my settler went - and in games like the GotM I will build it there, because you need cities, lots of them and you need them ASAP.

Well, you are a very creative player, dude! I am too analytical at times and sometimes do not think "outside the box" once I make a set of assumptions. I will try your method, with permutations!

Lastly, I never even let my caravans defend my cities - if I lose one or two in the early expansion then what the heck, I can always buy them back, but I don't usually get all that many bars, mainly because after the initial exploring I don't take the huts until they are within a city zone and then they never give barbs.

Well, if a city is going to come under assault (e.g., I know or see the AI/Barbs coming), I will hurry "real" defenders into it, so I can rush out and get the barb leader after (hopefully) repelling the attack. Most of the time, I can force the attack to occur on defensible terrain, like a hill or mountain.

But I try to keep a caravan or diplomat in most cities on the edge, that way the stupid barbs don't just appear and take the city unopposed. I played GOTM 4 in June for fun, and lost 2 cities to barbs that just walked in unopposed in the area where England was originally. Those sea barbs can be pesky, and now I have not lost a city to barbs in over 2 months. I've paid extortion once recently, though... but only a small amount since I usually keep a small amount in the bank. They won't extort more than you have.

Once I get Writing and build diplomats, I actually like getting barbs from huts, esp. if they are closer to the AI cities. I get lots of NONE units like that sometimes.

 

[el_kalkylus]

Originally posted by starlifter
Since you are liking to improve your game by comparison, the GOTM may be fun for you. It is here:
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2gotm.shtml

In the GOTM Forums, we have discussions. We even post pictures of the game. I usually have a detailed timeline, and it is good to see exactly how my own game goes, to which you can compare your own experience. The game results are posted each month, too. Anyone is free to download the start, and play the game. PS, Be sure and discuss your game in the forum if you play!

Yeah, I think I might just do that.

Once I get Writing and build diplomats, I actually like getting barbs from huts, esp. if they are closer to the AI cities. I get lots of NONE units like that sometimes.

That is a great trick!

 

[starlifter]

That is a great trick!

I have posted some pictures of exactly how I surround a hut and get the NONEs... the GOTM 7 thread has some pix.

The downside is that it takes time and effort and micromanagement to do this. And often, barbs won't even pop out . Many people hate getting barbs from huts, but I usually like it, and even plan my city growth to ensure unpopped huts are closer the the AI than my cities... so the units will be NONEs.

It is funny that I hear people talking about all the Barbs, yet I whine to myself about "why oh why can't I ever get barbs to pop out of huts!" About the worst for me is an Advanced Tribe, because they never seem to be in the right postion. Nomads are probably my favorite, but I don't get too many, most of the time.

 

[jc011]

yeah i know, i only got nomads once, in fact, i never new about these nomads until the hut topic!! I hate the advanced tribe too, if it's called an advanced tribe, shouldn't it start at a size 2 with a defender in it already??

 

[el_kalkylus]

Hehe. I gotta ask, do you ever reload? If you want barbarians or nomads, you just have to reload. It's cheating I know, but if you do, you could have the perfect game beating Shadowdale, Smash etc.

I don't like advanced tribes either. It is never on the right spot, and you go over the limit of cities, which makes your people unhappy.

 

[Dexter]

Some of these strats are pretty good, I'm going to try the build cities quick option.

Here's how I'll do my new strat:
Build first city on spot. Build 1 defence unit then Settler. Develop quickly then build wonders city improvements.

Thanx, this deffinately has helped!!

 

[el_kalkylus]

Originally posted by el_kalkylus
Hehe. I gotta ask, do you ever reload? If you want barbarians or nomads, you just have to reload. It's cheating I know, but if you do, you could have the perfect game beating Shadowdale, Smash etc.

I take that back. I just read the GOTM rules.

Dexter, that sounds like a good idea.