A new low.

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capnvonbaron

Democratia gladii
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So Hiawatha drops a veteren swordman and a reg MW next to a 6 pop city of mine with a single defending musket. This is just as I got replaceable parts, so I move an extra musket to the city and upgrade them both to infantry. Just to be safe, because even though we were not at war, we all know what usually follows. Not surprisingly, Hiawatha declared war on the interturn, and attacked.

Its a good thing I moved the extra guy in, because the swordman killed the first infantry. An attacking veteran swordman, killed a defending veteren infantry. AN ATTACKING VETERAN SWORDMAN, KILLED A DEFENDING VETERAN INFANTRY, AND STILL HAD 2 OF 4 HP LEFT. [pissed]

Ok, I've vented. I feel better now. I don't even care to think about what the odds of that are.

A couple of passing Riders ensured that neither of his units lived to see the next round. Take heed, kiddies... this is why we use offense whenever we can, because you get screwed on the defensive. :gripe:

EDIT: Ok, I guess its about 1 in 180 odds, unless i am mistaken. But still, really?? :sad:
 
Tough luck. Play a lot of civ and you will encounter unlikely events. (This is partly what the HOF is about, rolling starts until you have that 5 cow start.)

According to BomberEscorts combat calculator, a fortified vet infantry in a town without walls against a vet sword has a 2.4% chance of loosing. That's more like 1 in 40. Not that unlikely.

Imagine this: the infantry, celebrating his recent promotion, drank a bit too much wine in the IBT ...
 
I had a 4/6hp cav take out a 8hp modern armor recently...it was a flashback to WWII.

These things happen, mostly because there are no weighted battles, just the (P)RNG. But you knew that already....

Next time, make the appropriate sacrifices to the (P)RNG. :worship:
 
Kinda tough, finding a virgin these days. . . . :lol:

kk

:lol: A thousand AI warriors will be slaughtered in the name of Sid if I thought it would help... but it'd all be one big rain dance in the end.

1 in 50 eh... still not odds I'd take to Vegas. I don't know if its my worst ever... I recall losing a full health unfortified modern armor in the field to a full health samurai a long long time ago, but the odds are similar I believe. The important part was that I didn't lose the town. I reaped all kinds of war happiness, put a contract out for Hiawatha's head in a sack with the Americans and Indians (which they spread to the French and Aztec), and saw the extinction of the Iroquois from the comfort of my own continent a dozen turns later. All I had to do: kill their swordman, the MW, the galley that dropped them off; and pen the contract.

I don't get mad. I don't get even. I punish severely. :trouble:
 
I imagine the veteran swordsman like Moe from The Three Stooges. Upon seeing the upgraded musketman, "Oh, new guns, eh? Why I oughta..." and he proceed to slap your unit like he slaps Curly.
 
:lol: A thousand AI warriors will be slaughtered in the name of Sid if I thought it would help... but it'd all be one big rain dance in the end.

1 in 50 eh... still not odds I'd take to Vegas. I don't know if its my worst ever... I recall losing a full health unfortified modern armor in the field to a full health samurai a long long time ago, but the odds are similar I believe. The important part was that I didn't lose the town. I reaped all kinds of war happiness, put a contract out for Hiawatha's head in a sack with the Americans and Indians (which they spread to the French and Aztec), and saw the extinction of the Iroquois from the comfort of my own continent a dozen turns later. All I had to do: kill their swordman, the MW, the galley that dropped them off; and pen the contract.

I don't get mad. I don't get even. I punish severely. :trouble:

Awesome. :lol:

I have been playing a Large Pangea game w/ 16 civs as the Persians and the Koreans declared war on me by attacking a border city with their Knights while I was researching Economics, I think. After my city survived their attack (just barely), that turn I used my worldly influence with 10 other civs to declare war on them and we've been dog-piling them relentlessly for the past 20+ turns.
 
Or the former musketmen -- having skipped the "rifleman" upgrade and thus unfamiliar with breech-loading rifles -- pulled the bullet from its casing, poured the powder down the end of the barrel, dropped the bullet in after, and pounded it into place with their old ram rods that they kept because they noticed the new rifles didn't seem to include one. Then they were all surprised when the gun either didn't fire or exploded in their face, just by coincidence taking out a couple of swordmen in the process.

Knew I shoulda included a "how-to" manual when I handed out rifles. :shake:

@Aegis: I'm playing large continents with 12 civs. I've already destroyed the Russians, Persians, and Zulu (in that order), reduced the Greek to a OCC tundra town, and kicked the French and Germans off my continent to the small group of islands they previously settled off the coast. Germany is down to 1CC due to French aggression (ha! the irony in that statement). Japan got whacked before I got to talk to them, and Iroquois largely lost to India, but some to Aztec and America. America joined that war for free, India required steam power which was already about 6 techs behind what I was researching. The "New World" is now India, America, and Aztec in order of large to small. I got Lincoln to attack the Aztec for no good reason other than I decided Monty needed culling, and they've been trading cities back and forth now. America has been something of an attack dog for me this game :lol:

One would think this was a regent game or something, but its emporer, believe it or not. Seems like once you get to a certain point, there is little change in difficulty from regent to monarch to emporer.

PS: Don't research economics. Prebuild a palace and as soon as the AI researches it, buy it and change the palace to Smith's to complete it uber-quick. Use your science to research something useful like steam power or industrialization.
 
Just for the record a sword vs infantry where no terrain, no wall, no city, fortified is 35% to win. In 100 trials the sword won 35 times.
 
PS: Don't research economics. Prebuild a palace and as soon as the AI researches it, buy it and change the palace to Smith's to complete it uber-quick. Use your science to research something useful like steam power or industrialization.

I always pre-build a palace when needed, but the AI tends to research techs in a balanced fashion, and not beeline towards something like I do, resulting in a long time for them to catch up to where I want to be.

I generally ignore everything at the bottom of the Middle Ages tree, except maybe for Engineering if I'm at war (for traveling across rivers), and race for Education & Banking. Then I build Universities and Banks and trade for anything that I feel that I am lacking. From there, Economics is only one tech away and waiting for the AI to catch up would mean having to wait until the Industrial Ages, like you said. Free upkeep for Marketplaces, Banks & Harbors, etc. are a big deal to me and add up very quickly. My goal in the Middle Ages is to research and accumulate wealth as quickly as possible.

One would think this was a regent game or something, but its emporer, believe it or not. Seems like once you get to a certain point, there is little change in difficulty from regent to monarch to emporer.

My biggest problem with Emperor is keeping people happy early on.
 
I agree with you Aegis keeping people happy on Emperor on up requires a lot of work. Oh... you meant not unhappy... meaning content and happy. That's not so bad. I might seem to pick on you here, but it's a useful distinction to keep in mind as you play more and more.

ThinkTank said:
Play a lot of civ and you will encounter unlikely events. (This is partly what the HOF is about, rolling starts until you have that 5 cow start.)

Yea, I agree with that as you said it... *partly*. You still have to know what to do with a 5 cow start to really optimize gameplay. As a case in point, I think I had good trading skills for a 20k Byzantine game I played a couple of months ago, handled the map fairly well. But, looking back I had *a ton* of units after a while that perhaps I should have tried for the Heroic Epic more aggressively. Also, I had 4 cows with plenty of extra food at size 12 and didn't realize I could forest them for extra shields to get in 30 shields per turn in the middle ages. Mind you I've exceeded that finish date on another map with another tribe.
 
I agree with you Aegis keeping people happy on Emperor on up requires a lot of work. Oh... you meant not unhappy... meaning content and happy. That's not so bad. I might seem to pick on you here, but it's a useful distinction to keep in mind as you play more and more.

Yes, that is an important distinction, and that is what I meant. It has been a year or so since I last tried Emperor, though. I think I will give it another shot this weekend, considering I am much more adept at utilizing the lux slider now.
 
I always pre-build a palace when needed, but the AI tends to research techs in a balanced fashion, and not beeline towards something like I do, resulting in a long time for them to catch up to where I want to be.

I generally ignore everything at the bottom of the Middle Ages tree, except maybe for Engineering if I'm at war (for traveling across rivers), and race for Education & Banking. Then I build Universities and Banks and trade for anything that I feel that I am lacking. From there, Economics is only one tech away and waiting for the AI to catch up would mean having to wait until the Industrial Ages, like you said. Free upkeep for Marketplaces, Banks & Harbors, etc. are a big deal to me and add up very quickly. My goal in the Middle Ages is to research and accumulate wealth as quickly as possible.

My biggest problem with Emperor is keeping people happy early on.

Yeah, keeping the people happy is a task to be sure. I have a four stage process that has been working very well for me for larger scale anything-but-culture-victory games. There are certainly other ways to go, but this one has been serving me best lately, as long as I get a half-way decent start (maybe two food bonuses in the FC):

Stage 1 -- A Happy AA. Turn off goody huts. They only help the AI on monarch and up. With militaristic or religious civs, I've been having a lot of success in researching the south side of the tech tree and trading backwards. The secret is meeting other civs early and trading your starting techs for theirs. Then the trip to monarchy is fairly quick, and the computer will sell ANYthing for polythesim and monarchy which are almost always my monopolies. Your cities only need build rax and units.

Don't be afraid to make raids on your weaker neighbors; pillage their roads and take their workers/settlers wherever you can. More slaves = more infrastructure for you = faster city improvement + 0 upkeep on workers + time for your cities to build anything except workers. You don't need to take their cities yet, but if you can get away with it, do so. Sue for peace if they retaliate in numbers. Enter MA.

Stage 2 -- The People Love You... or Else. Switch to Monarchy and build LOTS of units to keep the your ungrateful minions content (three :) allowed with units per city), since you mostly don't have much else to build at this point. Build markets, libraries, and aqueducts where needed. With one or two luxs, the people stay plenty happy and productive. If they get out of line, turn some into settlers/workers. Research toward Chemistry. Start prebuilds for Leo's and Cope's.

Build rediculous hordes of horsemen, swords, and pikes. Expand outward, and take your weaker neighbors' cities when you build more units than are useful for content faces. Use the swords and a few horses to attack soft targets. This helps expand your borders and it takes surprisingly little to cripple your neighbors at this stage, once you take their cities, workers, resources, and techs. Also fish for MGLs

Stage 3 -- A Step Ahead. Most of the other civs race toward astronomy, notable exceptions being the ones with gunpowder UUs. Because techs get cheaper as other civs research them, and because the AI loves gifting each other, the top part of the tree gets researched almost as quickly as you alone could do it. While you are researching gunpowder, most of the time education will come available, as well as chivalry if the knight UU civs are out there. Trade backward for both, uprgrade all your horsmen to knights and the occasional pike to musket for frontline defense (you did build Leo's, right? ;))

Stage 4 -- Reap and Sow. Make your neighbors into dead neighbors. This is the BEST time to spark your GA if you have a knight or gunpowder UU. Why? Because universities, banks, and knights are expensive, lots of premo wonders are available, and you have lots of newly conquered cities to improve quickly to make productive. When better to do this than during your GA?? Since you already have most of the bottom of the tree (and hopefully got an SGL for you C3C people), trade chem for astronomy (or just demand it from a civ after taking most of their cities), switch a prebuild to Cope's while you get physics and ToG, then build Newton's. Since you are in your GA, the rest of the required techs go quick, and sometimes you can get steam power quickly too. Rail everything.

Happiness might become a bit tough at this point, unless you have been able to conquer some luxs. I combat this by turning a lot of my larger cities to settler output and use the settlers to resettle all the AI cities I've razed. Use the happy slider if need be.

At this point, you've started the avalanche down the mountain. Your civ should be untouchable. The major downside is that if you worked over your neighbors too badly, they won't be able to contribute anything for the rest of the game, save for useless techs like printing press and free artistry. Cripple the other powerhouses by selling them something like Steam Power for 500 gold + 60 gpt. In the game mentioned above with the sword vs inf, I'm researching radio as the last IA tech, and none of the other idiots would even have industrialization or medicine if I hadn't sold those to them. Consider also that I let my governers manage the city citizens. Imagine what I could do as a micromanager :p

If anyone else has a strategy they like to use, I'd like to hear it. This one is getting old, ha! :crazyeye:
 
Ok I'm going to put in my two cents here because I've heard so many people mention frustratingly loosing in such a way. :)

Odds of it happening are low but it is obviously not impossible. And taking a few pages from history we can see that realistically things like this DID happen in real life:

Best example would be the WWII propeller plane that shot down a supersonic MIG in a dogfight over Vietnam when returning from a bombing run. Chances of that happening were slim to none I'd think!

Then we have general Custard's brand spanking new indestructible modern cavalry that got crushed by a wild band of Indians mostly on foot in the wild wild west. Yes some of the Indians had guns but I'd call that an upset still.

Next, we have 300 strong Spartan phalanx that stopped a much larger and a whole lot better equipped Persian army once remember.

Didn't the British expeditionary force in I don't remember what African country get massacred by African warriors carrying loincloths, leather shields, clubs and sticks? Or was it French I don't remember. We're talking organized veteran trained rifles vs. savages making animal noises.

Migrating tribe of 50k Ostrogoths or Visigoths, can't remember which, on horseback obliterated an entire Roman legion they came upon once. This wasn't an organized army either, just the lightly armed untrained men from a tribe that wanted to move within Roman borders where modern Serbia is.

Highly unlikely but not impossible. :)
It's happened to me more times then I can remember, so I always assume it will, and plan ahead in the games I play.
 
Then we have general Custard's brand spanking new indestructible modern cavalry that got crushed by a wild band of Indians mostly on foot in the wild wild west. Yes some of the Indians had guns but I'd call that an upset still.

I believe the Indians had the superior weapons in that battle. :p Custer's troops had single-loaders while the Indians had repeatable rifles.
 
Good points, and I generally agree a little, but...

Best example would be the WWII propeller plane that shot down a supersonic MIG in a dogfight over Vietnam when returning from a bombing run. Chances of that happening were slim to none I'd think!

I'm not aware of any WWII props fighting in Vietnam (A-1 Skyraider, but that was primarily close-air support and entered service in 1950), but I'm guessing that jet wasn't going >mach 1 when it got shot. Also, bullets go 2x mach, so really the jet was outrunning those, and there are other variable like if it was outnumbered/cornered or was suprise attacked. A jet in an evasive turn can't go supersonic, at least not back then. In civ, its actually not uncommon to have reg fighters shoot down jet fighters..

Then we have general Custard's brand spanking new indestructible modern cavalry that got crushed by a wild band of Indians mostly on foot in the wild wild west. Yes some of the Indians had guns but I'd call that an upset still.

Custer. :) That was 2000 indians, many on horseback, trained warriors familiar with the terrain... against 600 recruits, many who were not well prepared for battle, in an unfamiliar place. In civ terms, thats like three vetern MWs against one regular cavalry and a conscript rifleman. Most likely, that cav is dead.

Next, we have 300 strong Spartan phalanx that stopped a much larger and a whole lot better equipped Persian army once remember.

Terrain and unit advantage, mostly. And all 300 were eventually killed.

Didn't the British expeditionary force in I don't remember what African country get massacred by African warriors carrying loincloths, leather shields, clubs and sticks? Or was it French I don't remember. We're talking organized veteran trained rifles vs. savages making animal noises.

British vs Zulu, IIRC. Very small British force with muzzle loaders vs huge numbers of (again veteren) fast moving warriors. I think the Brits won that one, though... just barely. Think regular rifleman vs two or three veteren impi.

Migrating tribe of 50k Ostrogoths or Visigoths, can't remember which, on horseback obliterated an entire Roman legion they came upon once. This wasn't an organized army either, just the lightly armed untrained men from a tribe that wanted to move within Roman borders where modern Serbia is.

Unfamiliar. But 50K mounted barbs would scare any Legionary of mine, in civ OR RL.. :lol:

In any case, I'm still comforting myself by assuming that swordman had mad ninja skillz and murdered the infantry unit while everyone was sleeping. Because an equal number of veteren infantry losing straight-up in their own city where they'd been stationed for hundreds of years, against a similar number of dudes with swords that had never been on my continent before? No. :p
 
Just for the record a sword vs infantry where no terrain, no wall, no city, fortified is 35% to win. In 100 trials the sword won 35 times.

I don't believe this. I can imagine this to come out of a test if both units have 1 hp. We have 3 attack against 10 defense. So the sword has 3/13 chance of winning 1 round (i.e. 1hp), the infantry 10/13. If the infantry has 4 hp the odds of the sword winning 4 straight rounds are 3/13 to the power 4. That's about 0.28 %. We also have to account for possibilities where the infantry wins 1, 2 or 3 rounds in between, so the odds are better than that, but they will never come to 35%. BomberEscorts combat calculator gives 4.2% for the sword to win (infantry not fortified, but adding an extra 10% bonus for the defender, which is the minimal terrain defense bonus).
 
Tough luck. Play a lot of civ and you will encounter unlikely events. (This is partly what the HOF is about, rolling starts until you have that 5 cow start.)

Yea, I agree with that as you said it... *partly*. You still have to know what to do with a 5 cow start to really optimize gameplay.

No, you agree with me completely. My "partly" was intended to indicate that luck is only one part of the HOF - skill is the other one.
 
capnvonbaron said:
Turn off goody huts. They only help the AI on monarch and up. With militaristic or religious civs, I've been having a lot of success in researching the south side of the tech tree and trading backwards.

Not if you play as expansionist.

capnvonbaron said:
Most of the other civs race toward astronomy, notable exceptions being the ones with gunpowder UUs.

In Conquests at least they seem to stick to the bottom part of the tree until either Invention or Gunpowder. Then they get Theology (Chivalry usually comes before this). Then they'll go to Education or Gunpowder. Once they have Education they tend to go Astronomy-Navigation. Of course Chemistry and Printing Press sometimes appear, but generally they don't beeline Astronomy until they have Education. So, generally to pick up the tech pace or keep up in tech, at least I, stick to the top part of the tech tree until Banking/Chemistry (Monotheism if not already gotten via scientific tribes, Theology, Education), and then Physics-TOG.

ThinkTank,

Yes, I agree with you completely (or close enough). I wanted to emphasize the "partly" part of your statement.
 
Not if you play as expansionist.

... which I don't do, and advise others against, since building scouts and collecting goody huts is a crutch for lousy trading skills, only useful for the first quarter of the game, and still unreliable even then.

In Conquests at least they seem to stick to the bottom part of the tree until either Invention or Gunpowder. Then they get Theology (Chivalry usually comes before this). Then they'll go to Education or Gunpowder. Once they have Education they tend to go Astronomy-Navigation. Of course Chemistry and Printing Press sometimes appear, but generally they don't beeline Astronomy until they have Education. So, generally to pick up the tech pace or keep up in tech, at least I, stick to the top part of the tech tree until Banking/Chemistry (Monotheism if not already gotten via scientific tribes, Theology, Education), and then Physics-TOG.

There's an article somewhere that details what civs research what. One of the main drivers is a tech that uncovers a UU, followed by a tech that allows a wonder, and some other much less weighty factors. Obviously, theology is a given if science civs are around, and if I'm a science civ than I definitely take the north road and skip the south until I get done with banking. With non-science civs, though, feudalism is always first by the AI, so often I will nab engineering first and trade it around for theology and Feudalism. I go for invention next and sell it for everything i can get from the other competitive civs.

After that, its all dependent on the game. It doesn't really matter in most cases, and you should be able to strategically trade backward to end up in the IA before everyone else. Of course Spoonwood knows as well as anyone, that there are ways to hurry the AI tech pace, and ways to cripple it... so your desired victory condition and date goal will influence what you do techwise -- and militarily -- after this point.
 
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