A question about Sweden in WW2

[Megabyte]

Hi !

When Hitler began the invasion of Denmark & Norway , Sweden was neutral and wasnt invaded.Was there a right-leaning gov at this time or was Sweden strategically obsolete ? for what reason wasnt Sweden invaded ?

 

[Damnyankee]

Sweden was BOTH. Right leaning goverment and obsolite in case of war.

 

[Warman17]

I think he ment, was Sweden really an important target to attack. Sweden had no natural resources or strategic location he needed. Norway has huge amounts of Iron Ore which fed his Syteel industry. If I recall correctly, Hitler still had 10 divisions in norway, even during the last days of the war.

 

[Damnyankee]

Sweden was BOTH. Right leaning goverment and obsolite in case of war.

Obsolite in case of war, ya i got it, it was both.

 

[Damnyankee]

I think he ment, was Sweden really an important target to attack. Sweden had no natural resources or strategic location he needed. Norway has huge amounts of Iron Ore which fed his Syteel industry. If I recall correctly, Hitler still had 10 divisions in norway, even during the last days of the war.

And the reason for Hitler having ten divisions in Norway, was because he expected a invasion there. Misinformation keep them there instead of fighting the allies

 

[Megabyte]

Sweden was BOTH. Right leaning goverment and obsolite in case of war.

Hi!
Thx for the comments. I already suspected something like that , but couldnt find some material on the topic in my school-books. Did Germany really had 10 DIVISIONS up there ??? I think i will never understand Hitlers strategical thinking.....

 

[rilnator]

Course they had divisions up there, losing Norway would have severed the route to Finland.

The Swedes and Germans got along well. Prior to the war and towards the end, individual Swedes tried to help broker peaces between Germany and the rest. The Germans didn't invade coz they didn't have to, the Swedes were more than happy to trade with them and a large part of the population was sympathetic towards the German cause.

 

[joacqin]

Sweden suck up to the left and right and tried to be buddies with everyone. We were preparing for an invasion by the Germans but it never came thankfully. Sweden was as have been stated not overly strategically important and the importance we did have with steel and iron ore we sold to the Germans anyway so they need not bother to invade.

 

[Steph]

Wasn't Sweden selling huge quantity of Iron to Germany?

 

[Hurricane]

I think he ment, was Sweden really an important target to attack. Sweden had no natural resources or strategic location he needed. Norway has huge amounts of Iron Ore which fed his Syteel industry. If I recall correctly, Hitler still had 10 divisions in norway, even during the last days of the war.

This is incorect. It was Sweden that had huge resources of iron ore, that they sold to Germany. The main goal of securing Norway was not resources, but the strategic location, i.e. to surround England.

Sweden remained neutral throughout the war, but they did do some spying for the allies.

 

[finally]

Sweden did not have a right-leaning government during the war. We had a coalition government with a social democratic prime minister. Many officers in the military were right-leaning though, but the public opinion in Sweden was not supporting Hitler.

Sweden did everything to not get into the war and agreed on everything that Hitler demanded, because Sweden wanted to avoid a german invasion at any prize. So German troops were allowed to pass through Sweden and swedish iron ore were exported to Germany (via the Norwegian harbor in Narvik).

One reason Sweden wasn't invaded was because of its strategic importance. If Sweden had been invaded the allies could have a legitimate reason to bomb the swedish iron mines. Another reason would be resistance. The resistance in Norway held on for two months and Sweden is a bigger country with a larger population and it would probably take too many men and resources to gain control over Sweden and these men and resources were needed elsewhere.

 

[Cimbri]

In 1943, 7.000 Danish Jews were evacuated to Sweden just as the Nazis tried to intern them. (Thus ’only’ 53 Danish Jews were killed during the war)

Had Sweden been invaded before 1943, many more Danish Jews would have perished.

 

[storealex]

A small part of the Danish army and many resistance fighters took refuge in Sweden.

 

[Jawz II]

neutral is the way to go, let the A-holes play "king of the s***-heads" and just enjoy the entertainment

Moderator Action: Pls mind your language. Warned - XIII
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

there was one swedish diplomat whos name i cant remember i think it was wallenberg, who single handedly managed to rescue 300,0000 - 400,000 jews, i think bulgarian jews or something.

eat that schlinder!!


btw theres 1 mandatory language you have to learn in school in sweden, untill 1945 it was german, from 1946 it was english!

awesome!

 

[joacqin]

It was Raol Wallenberg, and it was in Hungary. Also the stories about his exploits are now thought to be wildly exaggerated. He did help but the entire Swedish embassy was working on it and it was the Hungarian resistance and the Hungarian jews who took most of the risks. Also it wasnt anywhere near 300-400k.

 

[Verbose]

Sweden in WWII, a bit of everything that has been brought up so far.

Politics:
The Sw. gvt. from 1932 was by the Social Democrats. Per Albin Hanson Prime Minister. Hardly "right wing" by any definition.
At the outbreak of the war he formed a national govt. made up of all the parties except the Communists. (Who where sent to internment camps in the north for the duration of the war.)

How pro-German was Sweden?
The die-hard pro-Germans were to be found among the Swedish academia in the universities and in the army. There was widespread pro-German feelings among these elites.
At the same time Sweden was staunchly democratic. That was never compromised. Up-until 1942 almost everyone thought the nazis would win, so the hope was that the Scandinavians would be allowed to keep their democracies in Hitler's New Europe.

How much aid were the Germans given?
Plenty! Most of all they didn't need to invade because all that iron-ore, and processed iron, was being sold to Germany anyway. The German army asked for permission, and was given it, to transit troops going on leave and back to the eastern front through Sweden. These locked trains ran at night through the country, no-one talked much about it, but old folks can still remeber these mystery-trains. These troops transited unarmed. At one point the Germans got permission to transit one fully armed infantry division (Engelbrecht) from Norway to Finland. Actually one of the British army's biggest sabotage missions was carried out in Sweden. Spec. Ops. blew up the huge railway switching yard in Krylbo, central Sweden. ("Smällen i Krylbo" / The bang at Krylbo)

Were the Swedes happy with the situation?
The 15% nazis or so in the country would have been, and the larger proportion of unreflecting pro-Germans. The communists liked it as long as NZ Germany and the USSR were allies. The Swedish prime-minister Ernst Günther on the other hand told people in private that the whole situation "made him physically sick".
All of these arrangements were dropped the minute it was clear that Germany was loosing the war and no longer had the capacity to invade Sweden. (I.e. no transits, no iron by 1943.)

Why was it done?
Fear! Sweden in 1939 had virtually no army. A few obsolete tanks and an air-force of some 150 outdated bi-planes (early 30's design). Why? Because Sweden like most European nations (and the US) disarmed massiveley in the 20's. Then the Depression hit and no one could really justify spending what money there was on re-arming with unemployment over 20%.
Sweden rearmed by all possible means in the first years of the war. In 1945 the fire-power of a Swedish infantry division was wastly superiod to a German one. There was a whole new state-of-the-art aircraft industry which is still around. But none of that was around in -39. At the outbreak Sweden was virtually defenseless. Those who make a moral argument out of Swedens position in WWII have a point. Sweden should have stuck up for democracy. Unfortunately that would have meant being instantly thrown on the German butcher-block. Even Churchill commented Sweden's "flexibility" towards Garmny with the words: "The last thing we want is another casualty."
That said, in -45 Churchill was very sure that Sweden must join the war, even if it meant forcing it. It would have happened if the 10 German crack divisions in Norway hadn't capitulated.

And on top of all that, if you want to understand Swedish foreign policy decisions look to Russia. Nazi Germany was considered a smaller threat to Sweden than the Soviet Union. Until 1945 Germany looked like the power most likely and able to guarantee the independance of the Scandinavian nations from Russian/Soviet expansion. Heck, the way the Finns ended up fighting alongside the Germans is proof of the validity of the analysis. After 1945 it looked like the US was the surest bet. As soon as the allied victory looked like a certanity, Sweden became very friendly towards them.

 

[Megabyte]

Hi!

@Verbose : thx for your infos.That sheds a whole new light on the constellation of politics in Scandinavia for me at the time of WW2. I find it disturbing that we here in germany doesnt get any infos about such in the history-lessons. We get plenty much details about things like Aktion Barbarossa or the Invasion of France but everything without direct conflict with Germany seems to be uninteresting to teach.

Have Fun!

 

[Cilpot]

I think he ment, was Sweden really an important target to attack. Sweden had no natural resources or strategic location he needed. Norway has huge amounts of Iron Ore which fed his Syteel industry. If I recall correctly, Hitler still had 10 divisions in norway, even during the last days of the war.

Norway didnt have iron ore, Sweden did. But it was shipped out thruogh the norwegian harbour of Narvik, and thats why that port was so important to the allies.

 

[Verbose]

Norway didnt have iron ore, Sweden did. But it was shipped out thruogh the norwegian harbour of Narvik, and thats why that port was so important to the allies.

But only in winter. Narvik was ice-free while the Swedish ports froze up. So the whole Narvik-campaign was mounted to stop the supply of Swedish iron to Germany during winter.
The reason it was such a prize for both the allies and the Germans was also that it was a good place to threaten allied shipping in the north Atlantic from. In Scandinavia it was generally felt that if the Germans hadn't occupied Norway, the British probably would have. Hard to tell if there was any truth to that in retrospect, but Norway's strategic position pretty much ensured it wouldn't be allowed to sit on the side-lines like Sweden could. (With Norway as a buffer in the west, Denmark in the south and Finland to the East.)

 

[Hurricane]

The allies indeed planned on securing Narvik and the north of Norway, but Germany was a bit quicker. I quote from this page (http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/70-7_02.htm), which has an excellent overview of the situation (my emphasis):

... The new Scandinavian undertaking was to consist of two separate but related operations, WILFRED and Plan R 4. WILFRED involved the laying of two mine fields in Norwegian waters, one in the approaches to the Vest Fjord north of Bodo, and the other between Ålesund and Bergen, with the pretended laying of a third near Molde. It was to be justified by notes delivered to Norway and Sweden several days in advance protesting the inability of those nations to protect their neutrality. The supposition was that WILFRED would provoke German counteraction, and Plan R 4 was to become effective the moment the Germans landed in Norway "or showed they intended to do so." Narvik and the railroad to the Swedish frontier formed the principal objectives of Plan R 4. The port was to be occupied by one infantry brigade and an antiaircraft battery, with the total strength to be built up eventually to 18,000 men. One battalion, in a transport escorted by two cruisers, was to sail within a few hours after the mines had been laid. Five battalions were to be employed in occupying Trondheim and Bergen and in a raid on Stavanger to destroy Sola airfield, the largest in Norway and the closest to the British Isles. The plan depended heavily on the assumption that the Norwegians would not offer resistance; and, strangely, the possibility of a strong German reaction was left almost entirely out of account. [41]

On the German side, after the Finnish-Soviet peace was announced, Hitler hesitated temporarily as he cast about for means of justifying the operation, but the time for decision had come. From the point of view of the Navy, an early execution was imperative because all other naval operations had been brought to a standstill by the preparations and because after 15 April the nights would become too short to afford proper cover for the naval forces. Reporting to Hitler on 26 March, Raeder declared that the danger of an Allied landing in Norway was no longer acute, but since he believed WESERUEBUNG would have to be carried out sooner or later he advised that it be done as soon as possible. Hitler agreed to set the day for sometime in the period of the next new moon, which would occur on 7 April. [42]

On 1 April Hitler approved the plans for WESERUEBUNG after a detailed review; on the following day, after having been assured by the Commanders in Chief, Navy and Air Force, that ice would not impede naval movements in the Baltic and that flying conditions would be satisfactory, he designated 9 April as WESER Day and 0515 as WESER Time. The first supply ships sailed on 3 April and the warships began putting out from German ports at midnight on the 6th. [43]

It was not until after the first German ships were at sea that the Allies reached an agreement on their own operation. The execution of WILFRED and Plan R 4 was at first tied to Operation ROYAL MARINE, a British proposal for sowing fluvial mines in the Rhine. The French objected to this on the ground that it would provoke German bombing of French factories. WILFRED had been scheduled for 5 April, but it was not until that date that the British Government agreed to carry out the Norwegian operations independently of ROYAL MARINE; consequently, the mines were not laid until the morning of 8 April, by which time the German ships were advancing up the Norwegian coast. When it became known on the morning of the 8th that the German Fleet, which had been sighted by aircraft in the North Sea on the previous day, was at sea in the vicinity of Norway the mine-laying force was withdrawn and Plan R 4 was abandoned.

In the end the Allied venture accomplished nothing and gave Hitler the excuse he needed for WESERUEBUNG. The coincidence of Allied and German forces heading toward Norway at exactly the same time reinforced the myth of Hitler's "intuition" and gave rise to the post hoc, ergo propter hoc argument that WESERUEBUNG was forced on Germany by the aggressive intentions of the Allies. Actually there is no evidence that Hitler knew of WILFRED or Plan R 4, and it appears highly unlikely that he would have risked his Navy in Norwegian waters if he had known or suspected that the British Navy would be engaged in major operations in that area at the same time.